General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShocking unrolled twitter thread on the situation in Ottowa tonight.
See it at the link, or portion below.
[link:https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1490143947326377988.html|
So here's where I think we are, this Saturday evening.
1. Ottawa has lost control of itself. Most of the crowd seems non-violent, even cheerful, but the city isn't in control of its territory, so the general non-violence is really just a lucky break.
2. The tactical situation for Ottawa is grim. Having lost control, it can't get it back without a confrontation, and it isn't confident it would win that confrontation. I think Sloly knows this. I think he's trying to convince his bosses.
3. Ottawa is going to need to be "rescued" by outside help. Again, Sloly knows this. That's why he's already talking about the military. I'd think a police effort with massive reinforcements is more likely than a military response, but I'm not too confident in that prediction.
4. In the main, though, while this isn't Jan. 6, per se, Canada doesn't have effective control over its capital. It can get it back. It will. But for now, it's lost it. Our government doesn't have control of the capital city. Super.
5. As far as I can tell, no one knows what to do about this. I think some of them have clued in to the problem (but not all). But I think a lot of our leaders might still be stuck in the bargaining stage, if they're even that far.
5.1. Before I was a journalist I was planning to be a military historian (before I realized that academia was somehow an even more doomed and futile career path than, uh, print media). I'm still a hobbyist. What we're seeing now is paralyzed command and control.
5.2. Sometimes command-and-control is paralyzed because communications go down. Sometimes the critical officers are killed or incapacitated. Hell, sometimes headquarters or a ships bridge takes a direct hit. I dont think thats what this is. This is a reality shock.
5.3. I mean that the critical people are so surprised by what is happening that they are unable to fully perceive that it has even happened or imagine a response. This is a classic manifestation of a outside context problem. (Look that up.)
5.4. Shock and confusion seems most manifest in Ottawas government, but Im not sure if anyone at the provincial or federal level really gets this yet either. I have had some indication that they are starting to figure it out. But they are days and days behind.
5.5. I suspect that in the coming days people will start getting on the same page, and then we can actually expect to possibly see some action. But I dont think enough of the politicians even share a common understanding of the problem yet to start on a solution.
6. Even if the crowds remain mostly and yes, I know not entirely peaceful, whats happening right now in Ottawa is absolutely catastrophic both for the rule of law and for the long-term security of Canada. Everyone sees this. This is a massive failure of the state.
6.1. This failure is being witness not just by the citizens, who are realizing that they are on their own and the government is helpless, but also by our enemies, foreign and domestic, who see the same thing. They are taking careful notes, be sure of that.
7. If there is any good news to be had, its that notes were clearly taken by other Canadian jurisdictions, too. Other convoys in other major cities, including my hometown of Toronto, have been handled very differently. I imagine that will be the new rulebook going forward.
8. There is probably still a chance to resolve this non-violently. (Mostly.) But that window is closing. I think the danger of a large violent incident in Ottawa is growing fast.
9. I am interested to see action by citizens who realize the local officials have been defeated. Court action and lawsuits are interesting. Vigilante action is dangerous. I have no analysis or guesses here except that both will happen. And then well all see.
10. This or something like it was probably inevitable. And I think we will see more. How the next few days go in Ottawa will set the tone for how those future incidents go.
11. Political and policing careers are ending before our eyes. I dont know if the right careers will be the ones that end.
12. The Canadian political class is weak and naive. The entire purpose of it is dividing up the spoils in a country that is considered to be rich, stable and peaceful as just the natural, unwavering order of things. Its not. Our leaders and whole governments are clueless.
13. We cannot vote our way out of this mess. There isnt a critical mass of serious public safety and national security thinkers in any of our parties, governments or institutions (with very limited, insufficient exceptions). These muscles have simply atrophied from misuse.
14. I think we are in deep, deep shit.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,109 posts)Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Destabilize Canada?
applegrove
(118,740 posts)SunSeeker
(51,620 posts)Have Putin, will travel.
Celerity
(43,465 posts)applegrove
(118,740 posts)and came to the conclusion is was Russians trolls.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-how-putin-and-the-far-right-played-the-paris-yellow-vests-protests-1.6743555
So Russian trolls didn't invent yellow jackets they just grew it to cause chaos and hatred between groups in France. Then they dialed that up with troll farms. Interesting they do say they were doing the same thing with the anti-vax movement and the article is from 2018. So Russians can be blamed for pushing anti vax mandates to the nth degree before and after COVID arrived.
Celerity
(43,465 posts)and try to amplify divisions as it gathered steam. The movement had very legitimate underlying causational factors, grievances and goals in the beginning. It was deffo not RW MAGAt dross.
Priscillia Ludosky started the instrument (an online petition on May 29, 2018) that was the primal catalyst, and she joined with Éric Drouet in October to start to call for November 17, 2018 demonstrations.
Priscillia Ludosky
Éric Drouet
applegrove
(118,740 posts)Putin was exploiting the devisions of antivaxxers to divide before covid? So where covid anti-vaxers are concerned Russia, and more specifically Putin, are some of the founding figures?
Celerity
(43,465 posts)protests against inherent inequities (and their deleterious outcomes) in the systemic control of nations are not.
Dave says
(4,625 posts)Its a difference between good and evil.
Qutzupalotl
(14,321 posts)What a guy.
Irish_Dem
(47,200 posts)The Hitler model.
Irish_Dem
(47,200 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)I think the guy in the post is a bit carried away. They do say there are more people than they can handle, but citizens and government are going about their business, its just not a normal situation.
Nothing anywhere close to Jan6. No attacks on law enforcement.
Captain Zero
(6,821 posts)Imprison them. Give them a record. Fine them. Suspend their licenses. Make them get re-credentialed for commercial driving.
Start towing the ones in front somewhere and the next guys in line will start thinking about whether they want to move on or be the next towed.
cbabe
(3,549 posts)reported on As It Happens last night.
Neighborhood residents threatened with physical violence including rape.
Stockpiles of gas and propane by truckers.
Police promised extra patrols but didnt show.
Toronto put up concrete barriers to stop and contain truckers in advance.
There are options but the political will is nonexistent it seems.
A sad, disheartening situation. But not unique (see residential boarding schools and mass graves.)
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,334 posts)Then call in the scrap metal people.
msongs
(67,430 posts)al bupp
(2,182 posts)Truck convoy: 'Our city is under siege'
Author of the article:Blair Crawford
Publishing date:Feb 05, 2022 1 hour ago 17 minute read
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/truck-convoy-residents-police-brace-as-protest-numbers-expected-to-swell
applegrove
(118,740 posts)see the opportunity to be heroes on live TV, the truckers in Ottawa are being sued by many Ottawa residents unless they leave Monday, they will lose support as mandates are loosened everywhere and it won't be fun anymore so they will go home. Either that or a new variant will occur that spent its birth in an hiv patient for a few months or will kill a way higher percentage of people and these truckers will be clamoring for a jab.
ShazzieB
(16,470 posts)If a new, more deadly variant shows up, the only truckers in need of a job will be the unvaccinated ones whose moronic, unvaccinated asses aren't dead from covid by then.
I'm sick and tired of unvaccinated jerks throwing hissy fits about their stupid FREEDUMB. I have HAD it with these idiots. STFU and get the @#$%&! vaccine, you cretins!
applegrove
(118,740 posts)dchill
(38,515 posts)People from USA!USA!USA! are donating to destabilize a city in a neighboring country.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Comments in this twitter thread are familiar with Americans on Jan 6, their reaction to the AntiVax convoy speaks quite clearly to your OP as to shock & realization & unprepared.
Link to tweet
BREAKING: All hospital workers in Vancouver have received memos from their health authorities telling them to hide inside and avoid showing any signs theyre healthcare staff during an anti-vaxx/restriction convoy tomorrow
@CTVVancouver #vanpoli #canpoli
Article VancouverNews
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-health-authorities-warn-staff-to-shelter-and-hide-medical-credentials-during-anti-vaxx-convoy-1.5769041
Snip
"Refrain from wearing scrubs and/or your ID badge outside of the hospital during the demonstration, read their memo. If you do encounter any protestors, please do not engage or respond to their questions. Please do not ask protestors to put on a face mask.
BC Cancer and the Provincial Health Services Authority also notified staff that with the convoy planned to pass the agency's provincial and corporate offices on West Broadway, they were urging the same precautions as VCH. The agency told staff to speak to their manager or supervisor if they have any questions.
More..
Wow. Canada ~ 😕
cbabe
(3,549 posts)counter protest Saturday.
Budi
(15,325 posts)....should it turn violent?
I'm not familiar with their readiness or their policing system.
Response to Budi (Reply #11)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Takket
(21,600 posts)they won't stay there forever and you don't want to create a Waco type situation and you certainly don't want to make them martyrs, which is probably what they want. In the meantime, the Canadian government can pass a stimulus for the businesses and people losing income because these jerks are blocking off the streets.
But you can't let a tiny minority dictate policies design to decimate public health.
I wish we lived in a world smart enough to cheer if the government took these rigs and tossed them into the ocean and told these guys to fuck off, but we don't
cbabe
(3,549 posts)Mostly peaceful. A couple smoke bombs thrown. One arrest for weapon violation.
Police said no hate speech would be tolerated even with signs or flags.
Main concern seemed to be maintaining access to hospitals for out patients and emergencies.
Truckers dispersed early evening.
From Canada-news.ca and ctvnews.ca
Ottawa update:
RCMP finally agreed to answer (whatever that means) mayors request for assistance.
tirebiter
(2,538 posts)Gee, what could the Wagner group get away with in such an environment?
ymetca
(1,182 posts)blowback to the 1% owing everything, and greedily demanding more.
Everybody's broke, stressed, over-worked, under-paid, and finally ginned up by unscrupulous assholes, working the angles for cold hard cash, paid for by God knows who, and for what they don't care.
Profit in chaos for those with the most guns. Old school, law of the jungle, shit-hitting-the-fan stuff. Only it's white people now, so they weren't prepared to just gun down whom they thought were their own.
A class riot, after long decades of union-busting, only they don't even know what they want anymore. Just want to burn the whole place down.
Money is like ketchup. Ya gotta spread it around.
58Sunliner
(4,390 posts)and drive to a protest where I spend 24 hours or more to protest vaccinations, and threaten people. Hardly about blow-back to the 1%.
Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
OneBro
(1,159 posts)Ticket the vehicles for illegal parking every few hours or so. Fine the drivers for impeding traffic every few hours or so. Tow/seize the vehicles until all fees are paid.
Arrest anyone breaking the law. Get court orders re the impeding of traffic, then add contempt of court to the charges. The longer they stay, the more it will cost them.
On a side note: Thats a lot of human waste being generated in that traffic jam, literally and figuratively. That aint gonna get better.
No, it wont be easy, and yes, many will resist, but doing nothing is exponentially worse.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,618 posts)Matt Gurney? From his post I can see he is an idiot but is there more?
Gaugamela
(2,496 posts)Set up huge barricades so no one can get their trucks out. Surround them with police and troops and block all supplies from coming in. Drop leaflets telling them that their trucking licenses are suspended and their vehicles will be confiscated pending resolution in a court of law. Send in small drones with chemical irritants. Spray down from the rooftops a constant mist of stinky, oily water that makes their clothes stick to their skin. Once supplies have dried up alternate smells of baking bread with rotting flesh. Jam all radio, internet, and cell phone frequencies in the area.
They want to be an obnoxious presence? Give it back to them. They can surrender at any time, but the longer they wait the worse the consequences.
(Of course, this is all just fantasy. I doubt that much of this would be legal.)
yobrault1
(96 posts)It all needs to end soon. The citizens are fed up. Seems quieter tonight though.
Delphinus
(11,840 posts)bless you. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. And welcome to DU.
yobrault1
(96 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Hope things have been better for you overall in the midst of this, though.
Someone who described this as a classic "outside context problem" certainly called it -- a curve ball out of nowhere for Ottawa. I read that other cities have benefited from your experience, though, and are being firmer earlier.
Hope they get these hooligans gone from your neighborhood fairly quickly.
cadoman
(792 posts)The cold is brutal. The supplies are blocked. The funding has been cut. COVID is in the air and spreading through the occupiers filthy, unvaccinated, racist bodies.
Despite how cold it is there is not a single one of them wearing a fucking mask. Remember folks, this entire protest is against government PANDEMIC response. These fuckers are ignoring the science that would prevent them from dying during a PANDEMIC.
Why not just wait two weeks and let the fucking PANDEMIC kill them for their behavior? Once they start to keel over in the street from their own foolishness, the rest will see how ridiculous their behavior is and go the fuck home to get vaccinated like chastised puppies.
cadoman
(792 posts)Probably mostly racist lies but gives you an idea of the kind of fucking deceit these anti-science shits are capable of.
electric_blue68
(14,923 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Budi
(15,325 posts)Not sure which Right biased news source it would be compared to in the US. But Gurney & the Nat'l Post is following the same script in stirring up division, and making 'bank' in doing so, as the US media does.