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RandySF

(59,072 posts)
Thu Feb 10, 2022, 11:32 PM Feb 2022

NYT: Asians "overrepresented" at U.S. skating rinks.


?s=20&t=ixa0krNJpT-oHTNAt8H9hA

The New York Times
@nytimes
Asians make up around 7% of the U.S. population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks and competitions at every level, from coast to coast.

Gradually, they have transformed a sport that, until the 1990s, was almost uniformly white. https://nyti.ms/3HIBZHn
83 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYT: Asians "overrepresented" at U.S. skating rinks. (Original Post) RandySF Feb 2022 OP
Waiting for their report edhopper Feb 2022 #1
..and white overreppresented in Hockey Demovictory9 Feb 2022 #4
Or yachting, or polo Poiuyt Feb 2022 #11
And robots in chess Polybius Feb 2022 #29
lol. Demovictory9 Feb 2022 #36
Perfect Response Mary in S. Carolina Feb 2022 #68
You beat me to it. That's just what I was thinking. brush Feb 2022 #13
We seem to have a lot of great Americans representing US. nt OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2022 #2
So? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2022 #3
Wuh... ??? tavernier Feb 2022 #5
Congratulations on your milestone of 10,000 posts! niyad Feb 2022 #66
Thanks!! tavernier Feb 2022 #67
Shameful. Just unbelievable shit Deuxcents Feb 2022 #6
What horrid writing. blm Feb 2022 #7
How unbelievably racist Mary in S. Carolina Feb 2022 #8
Exactly! I guess we shouldn't be surprised given how right wing TNYT is nowadays. LonePirate Feb 2022 #28
Really. They are getting just as bad or worse than the NY Post...pathetic. SWBTATTReg Feb 2022 #48
+1 K&R. Disgusting headline. This is why i don't waste my $ on NYT. onetexan Mar 2022 #83
Sometimes it's just not about diversity. jalan48 Feb 2022 #9
New game : "NYT headline, or Tucker Carlson monologue?" bullwinkle428 Feb 2022 #10
So what? They are Americans. Go for it! LastDemocratInSC Feb 2022 #12
Lots of White folks Hmongliberal Feb 2022 #14
the author (who for the record is Korean-American) responded Celerity Feb 2022 #15
What the fuck? vercetti2021 Feb 2022 #16
the article itself is hardly RW Celerity Feb 2022 #32
Okay. And? RockRaven Feb 2022 #17
thank you for sharing that and raising our awareness of the issue cadoman Feb 2022 #18
assholes Skittles Feb 2022 #19
They worked for it... as individuals. keithbvadu2 Feb 2022 #20
Great news JI7 Feb 2022 #21
This is so racist. If Asian Americans are the best in competition... brush Feb 2022 #22
Did you actually read the article? What you are taking away from a clip job OP title is hardly a Celerity Feb 2022 #39
I read what I could before the paywall kicked in. What did you... brush Feb 2022 #44
I found both the author's replies (which I posted above) and the article itself to be satisfactory Celerity Feb 2022 #46
Thanks. I'll check them out. I must say though I have... brush Feb 2022 #60
That was not the headline, it was the OP pulling a partial quote Celerity Feb 2022 #71
As I said, it was the headline of the OP. brush Feb 2022 #72
Yes, sorry for the confusion from my end. Celerity Feb 2022 #73
"I will deffo be revisiting this colloquy when I am shown to be correct again." betsuni Feb 2022 #75
what are you on about? Celerity Feb 2022 #76
Post removed Post removed Feb 2022 #78
Some people focus ForgedCrank Feb 2022 #23
Stupidity has been overrepresented at the NYT under Dean Baquet BeyondGeography Feb 2022 #24
Gross bigoted shit. DickKessler Feb 2022 #25
You believe... Zeitghost Feb 2022 #35
Did he write the headline? My understanding is that reporters generally don't write headlines. DickKessler Feb 2022 #37
I'm not sure if he did... Zeitghost Feb 2022 #42
The headline of the OP is pure racism whoever wrote it. brush Feb 2022 #74
The sentence in the tweet Zeitghost Feb 2022 #80
By itself it certainly is. If it's the writer stating that it's the feeling... brush Feb 2022 #81
The New York Times is over-represented as being a credible source of news. Dawson Leery Feb 2022 #26
Amen Mary in S. Carolina Feb 2022 #69
Point to any language that expresses your made-up headline. brooklynite Feb 2022 #27
Uh, it's *literally* in the tweet: W_HAMILTON Feb 2022 #33
I can tell by many of the responses that most did not even bother to read the article, they Celerity Feb 2022 #34
Faux outrage at headlines Zeitghost Feb 2022 #38
lol @ 'outage olympics' Celerity Feb 2022 #40
Tell Me About It RobinA Feb 2022 #59
Yeah, guilty as charged. To be fair, the NYT tweet isn't doing the article any favors... DickKessler Feb 2022 #41
the author replied Celerity Feb 2022 #43
I knee-jerked hard at the tweet Sympthsical Feb 2022 #51
It is kind of sad treestar Feb 2022 #56
"vividly overrepresented"??? Geez. Pretty low. 58Sunliner Feb 2022 #30
How so? Zeitghost Feb 2022 #45
It's the connotation Sympthsical Feb 2022 #52
Possibly, although I don't agree Zeitghost Feb 2022 #57
I don't care who wrote the article and trying to hide behind semantics doesn't CYA. 58Sunliner Feb 2022 #55
SOOOOOO WHAT?!!! n/t Yanicosco Feb 2022 #31
I guess I think of "overrepresented" as a neutral term. BlueCheeseAgain Feb 2022 #47
Yes, very likely and my assumption. A statistical context Hortensis Feb 2022 #58
There is an immigrant group who is far more heavily represented in American sports DFW Feb 2022 #49
+1 betsuni Feb 2022 #50
+1 dalton99a Feb 2022 #54
Also "overrepresented" in figure skating: tanyev Feb 2022 #53
Clumsy people are under-represented. milestogo Feb 2022 #61
Wow. The reporter is clueless, and the NYT is really a right wing rag. Tommymac Feb 2022 #62
Similar to Women's LPGA golf madville Feb 2022 #63
The NYT's estimates can't be trusted, because all Asians probably look alike to them. Orrex Feb 2022 #64
You think that's the opinion... Zeitghost Feb 2022 #70
As a rule I do not use the sarcasm tag Orrex Feb 2022 #82
Sonja Henie (Norwegian, not US) and her generation are gone now. Sorry, the world moves on-- Hekate Feb 2022 #65
All Americans, NYTStupid. Cha Feb 2022 #77
There is nothign wrong with this. cinematicdiversions Feb 2022 #79

brush

(53,802 posts)
13. You beat me to it. That's just what I was thinking.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:03 AM
Feb 2022

Isn't it about merit, whoever can do it best, wins?

tavernier

(12,395 posts)
67. Thanks!!
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 12:16 AM
Feb 2022

I post on my iPhone so I had no idea how many posts I had. Combined with the number I had when I was here years many years ago in the Dubya Days under a different user name (Keysdisease) it appears that I’m quite the blabber mouth.

Thank you for catching it.

 

Mary in S. Carolina

(1,364 posts)
8. How unbelievably racist
Thu Feb 10, 2022, 11:46 PM
Feb 2022

Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 04:47 AM - Edit history (1)

The best athletes make it to the Olympics, if our Asian Americans or better than European Americans, than the Asian Americans have more talent.

Just like more than 70% of African American NFL football players or better than the European Americans counterparts.

Jes... get a grip people, talent is talent, who cares if European Americans lack the necessary talent.

Talent means the very best. Unfortunately, when talent is not judged by the masses such as in Olympic competition, talent can be bought and sold and given to those that truly do not have the talent - such as a white coach given priority over a black coach.

LonePirate

(13,428 posts)
28. Exactly! I guess we shouldn't be surprised given how right wing TNYT is nowadays.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:36 AM
Feb 2022

It's becoming more and more difficult to distinguish TNYT and The New York Post.

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
32. the article itself is hardly RW
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:43 AM
Feb 2022
The Asian American Pipeline in Figure Skating

The chain of success stretches back for years and has only strengthened as more have poured into the sport and become Olympic stars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/sports/olympics/figure-skating-chen-asian-americans.html

https://archive.fo/TfDQ0 (non paywalled)

By Andrew Keh

BEIJING — Tiffany Chin scanned the arena at the U.S. Figure Skating Championships last month and marveled at how things had changed. Chin won the national title in 1985. She was a happy-go-lucky teenager back then, but savvy enough to realize that the winners who had come before her had not looked like her, that few people in the rinks where she skated ever did. The scene last month was different. Asian American skaters populated the singles and pairs and ice dancing competitions. They appeared up and down the standings in the senior and junior contests. And by the end of the week, they filled the roster of the Olympic team. For the second consecutive Winter Games, four of the six figure skaters who arrived to represent the United States in the singles events were Asian American: Karen Chen, Nathan Chen, Alysa Liu and Vincent Zhou. A fifth Asian American skater, Madison Chock, is competing in the ice dancing event. “There are so many,” Chin said. “And that is so exciting.”

In the United States, a country where Asians and sports are not often intertwined in the popular imagination, figure skating is now plainly an Asian American sport. Asians make up around 7 percent of the American population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks and competitions at every level, from coast to coast. Gradually, they have transformed a sport that, until the 1990s, was almost uniformly white. They have infused competitions with music that draws from their Asian heritage, bolstered a pipeline that could solidify their hold on the sport and, in a climate of anxiety about anti-Asian violence, navigated the perils of hate on social media while insisting on expressing their roots. “I think representation is really important,” said Nathan Chen, a Chinese American who was also a member of the Olympic team in 2018, when seven of the 14 skaters were Asian American. “So to continue seeing faces that kind of look like yours on TV doing really cool things, I think, is still useful to a young kid.” Amid the various factors behind this phenomenon, almost every Asian American skater mentions being inspired by a chain of early pioneers.

snip


Tiffany Chin won the singles event at the 1985 U.S. Figure Skating championships. Credit...Bettmann/Getty Images


Michelle Kwan performing her short program at the 1998 Nagano Games. Credit...Chang W. Lee/The New York Times

Asians have long struggled with a lack of representation in American popular culture. For these skaters, then, seeing elements of themselves mirrored in top athletes could be a soul-stirring experience. Mirai Nagasu, a former national champion and two-time Olympian (2010, 2018), grew up working at her parents’ Japanese restaurant, where they eked out enough money to pay for her lessons. Nagasu laughed remembering how much it meant to her, as a young skater, to learn that Kwan’s parents had owned a restaurant, too. (Chin’s parents also owned a Chinese restaurant, and Liu’s father worked in one before she was born.) Naomi Nari Nam, who won a silver medal at the 1999 national championships, noted that the rise of Asian American participation had also coincided with the success of skaters from East Asia, like Yuna Kim of South Korea. “When I started skating, I was the one out of two Asian skaters in my rink, in Costa Mesa, Calif.,” said Nam, whose success led to an appearance on “The Tonight Show” at age 13 and a run of television appearances and commercials in Korea. “I coach now in Lakewood, Calif., and around 90 percent of my clientele is Asian or half Asian.”

Still, the sport was not always accommodating to them. When Chin skated, she was often called “China Doll” by commentators and journalists. Articles from the time refer to her “porcelain complexion” and “Oriental roots.” She was called a “siamese cat” and “unemotional” and an “exotic beauty.” Nam was placed in an etiquette class by her coach so she could learn how to interact with the predominantly white officials and judges who could decide her fate in skating. “He knew that it was a different culture,” Nam said. Skaters said that while explicit racism inside figure skating felt rare, many acknowledged that they received racist comments on social media. Alysa Liu learned over time to tune out harassing messages. But some incidents, in a time when violence and hate against Asian Americans have increased, have been harder to ignore. Liu, who has spoken about her growing awareness of social issues, called her father one recent night, struggling to sleep after reading about the shooting of a 71-year-old Chinese man in Chicago.


snip


Alysa Liu training in Oakland, Calif. Credit...Jim Wilson/The New York Times


Karen Chen placed fifth in the women’s short program of the team event at the Beijing Games. Credit...Gabriela Bhaskar/The New York Times

RockRaven

(14,982 posts)
17. Okay. And?
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:06 AM
Feb 2022

That's okay with me. I don't care much either way. And I certainly don't waste time airing my opinion on the matter unprompted.

Is it not okay with you, NYT? Why do you care enough to make a point to talk about it?

cadoman

(792 posts)
18. thank you for sharing that and raising our awareness of the issue
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:07 AM
Feb 2022

It's always good for us to be on the lookout for statistical divergences from the base demographic proportions. It allows us to identify potential systemic *isms that may need fixing.

brush

(53,802 posts)
22. This is so racist. If Asian Americans are the best in competition...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:25 AM
Feb 2022

so be it. Guess whoever wrote this wants white skaters to be the top finishers. Well, they just have to practice harder and show it on the ice.

We certainly don't want our skaters to fall as soon as they get on the ice, like the white woman skier who keeps falling as soon as she gets on the slopes.

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
39. Did you actually read the article? What you are taking away from a clip job OP title is hardly a
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:54 AM
Feb 2022

conclusion a reader would draw from it, IMHO.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216342612#post32

brush

(53,802 posts)
44. I read what I could before the paywall kicked in. What did you...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:59 AM
Feb 2022

draw from the "Asian Americans are over-represented in skating? That's not racist to you?

Shouldn't merit be the factor in who is on the American skate team?

And isn't it up to the poster to include some graphs from the story if it's content differs from the headline and tweets in the OP?

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
46. I found both the author's replies (which I posted above) and the article itself to be satisfactory
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 01:04 AM
Feb 2022

in terms of alleviating (for me) any racist intent or outcomes.

the author's replies

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216342612#post15

and my reply with the article had a link that allows you to read the whole article

https://archive.fo/TfDQ0

brush

(53,802 posts)
60. Thanks. I'll check them out. I must say though I have...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 09:46 PM
Feb 2022

Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

no tolerance for racism. And IMO that headline about Asians being over-represented in the skating elite is just that, and I feel the poster should've posted some text from the article to show the writer's intent wasn't represented by the headline.

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
71. That was not the headline, it was the OP pulling a partial quote
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 03:37 AM
Feb 2022

out if context and making it their headline.

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
76. what are you on about?
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 04:24 AM
Feb 2022

you are deliberately targeting me with something from another thread

that quote is not in this OP thread

you are baiting me

Response to Celerity (Reply #76)

ForgedCrank

(1,782 posts)
23. Some people focus
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:26 AM
Feb 2022

on some really odd and pointless things just to stir shit I think.
Sometimes I wonder if they get paid for every fight they start or something.

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
35. You believe...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:52 AM
Feb 2022

The Korean author is bigoted against Asians? That's a curious take. Did you read the article?

DickKessler

(364 posts)
37. Did he write the headline? My understanding is that reporters generally don't write headlines.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:53 AM
Feb 2022

EDIT: It's not the headline in the article, but the "vividly overrepresented" is in the NYT tweet. That's what I found, at the very least, unnecessarily sensationalist and clickbaity, and a lot of people will respond to it negatively (as seen by this thread).

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
42. I'm not sure if he did...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:57 AM
Feb 2022

But the headline is based on his writing and quotes it. I'll take it you did not read it?

brush

(53,802 posts)
74. The headline of the OP is pure racism whoever wrote it.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 04:05 AM
Feb 2022

As was the sentence in the NYT tweet. The OP poster should've added some text from the article to show that was not the intent of the writer...especially since there was a paywall.

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
80. The sentence in the tweet
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 01:23 PM
Feb 2022

Was written by the author, an Asian American journalist at the NYT named Andrew Keh. Is it you position that his statement in the article is racist?

brush

(53,802 posts)
81. By itself it certainly is. If it's the writer stating that it's the feeling...
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 04:07 PM
Feb 2022

of whites in the skating world, that feeling is certainly racist but not that of the writer. It's what his reporting has revealed.

Understand?

There's no escaping the elitist racism in that sentiment, no matter how you try.

W_HAMILTON

(7,870 posts)
33. Uh, it's *literally* in the tweet:
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:48 AM
Feb 2022

"...Asians make up around 7% of the U.S. population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks..."

Celerity

(43,462 posts)
34. I can tell by many of the responses that most did not even bother to read the article, they
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:48 AM
Feb 2022

just knee-jerked at the clipped, pot-stir attempt of the OP title.

sigh

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
38. Faux outrage at headlines
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:54 AM
Feb 2022

Scores more online points in the outrage olympics than reading for context.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
59. Tell Me About It
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 11:45 AM
Feb 2022

People just love a good outrage, apparently. The article comments on a phenomenon. "Overrepresented" is one of those jargony diversity industry words we are flooded with at the moment. If it hadn't been mentioned someone would be whining about that. I'm a figure skating fan. Go Asian Americans on the US team! Go all figure skating Olympians!

DickKessler

(364 posts)
41. Yeah, guilty as charged. To be fair, the NYT tweet isn't doing the article any favors...
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:57 AM
Feb 2022

with this phrase:

Asians make up around 7% of the U.S. population but have become vividly overrepresented


Like, what the fuck?

Sympthsical

(9,088 posts)
51. I knee-jerked hard at the tweet
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 08:31 AM
Feb 2022

Words like representation and over-represented are loaded and have connotations when discussing racial demographics - especially Asians and Asian-Americans. Given many on our own side's willingness to be quite ok with discriminating against Asians in academic admissions, my first impulse was to think that article was about to go down a similar path.

It was a really great, positive article.

But yeah. In the past few years, if you see Asian and over-represented in the same sentence, nine times out of ten someone's about to take a shit all over them in some way.

Given this, I would not have used that phrase as an advertisement for the article. Someone at NYT didn't get the nuance in the history of usage. Fortunately, I read things before posting or reacting.

But knee jerk. Yep. That headline managed it.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
56. It is kind of sad
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 11:19 AM
Feb 2022

the number of posters who are salivating for a chance to call something racist. And I bet most of them are white.

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
45. How so?
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 01:03 AM
Feb 2022

Overrepresentation is a simple math problem, not a value judgement. And I'd say "vivid" is a fair description of the many successful Asian American figure skaters in highly visible sporting events like the Olympics.

When you factor in the rest of the article and it's Korean American author, I don't see how anyone (at least anyone who bothered to read the article) could credibly come to the conclusion that it's a low blow.

Sympthsical

(9,088 posts)
52. It's the connotation
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 08:39 AM
Feb 2022

Sociologists may use that word in a completely neutral way without value judgement in their profession, but it can be a very loaded term in colloquial general public discourse. Usually when you see "overrepresented" somewhere, there's often a presentation of a problem that needs remedying.

And given what has been going on with Asian Americans in academia over the past decade or so, I was absolutely prepared to summon some hackles just based on that one sentence.

Glad to see the piece is nothing in that vein, but I would've definitely picked another word there. Sometimes a speaker doesn't hit listeners quite how they intend.

Zeitghost

(3,866 posts)
57. Possibly, although I don't agree
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 11:26 AM
Feb 2022

I think people read far too much into easy to understand words and statements.

That said, my main complaint is for those who jumped to calling the author a bigot and a racist without doing even a bare minimum of looking into who wrote the article or even reading it themselves. It plays into the criticisms against us on the left.

58Sunliner

(4,390 posts)
55. I don't care who wrote the article and trying to hide behind semantics doesn't CYA.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 11:13 AM
Feb 2022

Oh, I read the article.

BlueCheeseAgain

(1,654 posts)
47. I guess I think of "overrepresented" as a neutral term.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 01:56 AM
Feb 2022

It's just stating a mathematical fact-- that Asian Americans are a larger fraction of the figure skating population than in the US overall.

The article itself interviews a lot of Asian American skaters and talks about how they've drawn inspiration from the ones who came before them. It's clearly a very positive piece overall.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
58. Yes, very likely and my assumption. A statistical context
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 11:27 AM
Feb 2022

should have been established for it to avoid misinterpretation, but people shouldn't be leaping to "worst possible" misinterpretation to attack either. Those are very "overrepresented" in this mean, troubled era.

Socially, my first thought was just that it's impossible for any group to be overrepresented in public spaces. Those who want to be there should be.

DFW

(54,422 posts)
49. There is an immigrant group who is far more heavily represented in American sports
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 03:50 AM
Feb 2022

Asians? What about European-Americans? They dwarf the number of native Americans represented--not only in sports, but in pretty much all aspects of American life. They're everywhere, and they act like they own the place.

Most people in North America don't even speak an American language. They only know European languages, such as Spanish, English or French.

tanyev

(42,591 posts)
53. Also "overrepresented" in figure skating:
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 09:12 AM
Feb 2022

People from families who can afford years and years of expensive lessons and have at least one person in the family who can make the time to get the kiddos to those lessons.

ETA: And it's not just figure skating. I assume a socioeconomic analysis of any Olympic sport other than those widely available in public schools would show a similar overrepresentation.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
62. Wow. The reporter is clueless, and the NYT is really a right wing rag.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:00 PM
Feb 2022

Guess the NYT is trying to make McConnell's remarks last month about another hyphenated American group seem less out of bounds.

We see what you are doing NYT.

madville

(7,412 posts)
63. Similar to Women's LPGA golf
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:21 PM
Feb 2022

Asian women are dominating the LPGA now, like 18 of the top 20 golfers are Asian.

In these individual sports I don’t think race plays much of a role. It’s more about the parents’ desire for setting their children up to live and be dedicated to a sport 24/7 from the time they can walk and having the means to finance it. To their credit, Asian parents seem very good at focusing their children to excel in specific things, whether it be academics or a specific sport.

Orrex

(63,219 posts)
64. The NYT's estimates can't be trusted, because all Asians probably look alike to them.
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:24 PM
Feb 2022

NYT: "You must be at least as white as this sheet of typing paper to represent the US at the Olympics."

Hekate

(90,758 posts)
65. Sonja Henie (Norwegian, not US) and her generation are gone now. Sorry, the world moves on--
Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:33 PM
Feb 2022

For generations, whites were overrepresented in all sports endeavors in the US… and now, they are not. And in all professions, if you want to look at it that way.

Hey, New York Times! You don’t have to be “woke” to just wake up and smell the coffee. The world has moved on.


 

cinematicdiversions

(1,969 posts)
79. There is nothign wrong with this.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 10:15 AM
Feb 2022

We shouldn't prevent people who excel from succeeding because of their perceived race.

But of course the unsaid in the article is why is it allowed for figure staking but we don't allow it for admission to Harvard.

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