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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNYT: Asians "overrepresented" at U.S. skating rinks.
Link to tweet
?s=20&t=ixa0krNJpT-oHTNAt8H9hA
@nytimes
Asians make up around 7% of the U.S. population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks and competitions at every level, from coast to coast.
Gradually, they have transformed a sport that, until the 1990s, was almost uniformly white. https://nyti.ms/3HIBZHn
edhopper
(33,599 posts)about Black people over representing in football and basketball.
Demovictory9
(32,468 posts)Poiuyt
(18,129 posts)Polybius
(15,465 posts)Demovictory9
(32,468 posts)Mary in S. Carolina
(1,364 posts)brush
(53,802 posts)Isn't it about merit, whoever can do it best, wins?
OAITW r.2.0
(24,528 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,871 posts)If they're the ones skating, who cares?
tavernier
(12,395 posts)Not the Onion?
niyad
(113,496 posts)tavernier
(12,395 posts)I post on my iPhone so I had no idea how many posts I had. Combined with the number I had when I was here years many years ago in the Dubya Days under a different user name (Keysdisease) it appears that Im quite the blabber mouth.
Thank you for catching it.
Deuxcents
(16,292 posts)blm
(113,079 posts)Mary in S. Carolina
(1,364 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 04:47 AM - Edit history (1)
The best athletes make it to the Olympics, if our Asian Americans or better than European Americans, than the Asian Americans have more talent.
Just like more than 70% of African American NFL football players or better than the European Americans counterparts.
Jes... get a grip people, talent is talent, who cares if European Americans lack the necessary talent.
Talent means the very best. Unfortunately, when talent is not judged by the masses such as in Olympic competition, talent can be bought and sold and given to those that truly do not have the talent - such as a white coach given priority over a black coach.
LonePirate
(13,428 posts)It's becoming more and more difficult to distinguish TNYT and The New York Post.
SWBTATTReg
(22,154 posts)onetexan
(13,050 posts)jalan48
(13,876 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)LastDemocratInSC
(3,647 posts)Hmongliberal
(39 posts)representing in the WWE too! Why no news about that?
Celerity
(43,462 posts)vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)What happened to the NYT? They've gone full fucking right wing
Celerity
(43,462 posts)The chain of success stretches back for years and has only strengthened as more have poured into the sport and become Olympic stars.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/sports/olympics/figure-skating-chen-asian-americans.html
https://archive.fo/TfDQ0 (non paywalled)
By Andrew Keh
BEIJING Tiffany Chin scanned the arena at the U.S. Figure Skating Championships last month and marveled at how things had changed. Chin won the national title in 1985. She was a happy-go-lucky teenager back then, but savvy enough to realize that the winners who had come before her had not looked like her, that few people in the rinks where she skated ever did. The scene last month was different. Asian American skaters populated the singles and pairs and ice dancing competitions. They appeared up and down the standings in the senior and junior contests. And by the end of the week, they filled the roster of the Olympic team. For the second consecutive Winter Games, four of the six figure skaters who arrived to represent the United States in the singles events were Asian American: Karen Chen, Nathan Chen, Alysa Liu and Vincent Zhou. A fifth Asian American skater, Madison Chock, is competing in the ice dancing event. There are so many, Chin said. And that is so exciting.
In the United States, a country where Asians and sports are not often intertwined in the popular imagination, figure skating is now plainly an Asian American sport. Asians make up around 7 percent of the American population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks and competitions at every level, from coast to coast. Gradually, they have transformed a sport that, until the 1990s, was almost uniformly white. They have infused competitions with music that draws from their Asian heritage, bolstered a pipeline that could solidify their hold on the sport and, in a climate of anxiety about anti-Asian violence, navigated the perils of hate on social media while insisting on expressing their roots. I think representation is really important, said Nathan Chen, a Chinese American who was also a member of the Olympic team in 2018, when seven of the 14 skaters were Asian American. So to continue seeing faces that kind of look like yours on TV doing really cool things, I think, is still useful to a young kid. Amid the various factors behind this phenomenon, almost every Asian American skater mentions being inspired by a chain of early pioneers.
snip
Tiffany Chin won the singles event at the 1985 U.S. Figure Skating championships. Credit...Bettmann/Getty Images
Michelle Kwan performing her short program at the 1998 Nagano Games. Credit...Chang W. Lee/The New York Times
Still, the sport was not always accommodating to them. When Chin skated, she was often called China Doll by commentators and journalists. Articles from the time refer to her porcelain complexion and Oriental roots. She was called a siamese cat and unemotional and an exotic beauty. Nam was placed in an etiquette class by her coach so she could learn how to interact with the predominantly white officials and judges who could decide her fate in skating. He knew that it was a different culture, Nam said. Skaters said that while explicit racism inside figure skating felt rare, many acknowledged that they received racist comments on social media. Alysa Liu learned over time to tune out harassing messages. But some incidents, in a time when violence and hate against Asian Americans have increased, have been harder to ignore. Liu, who has spoken about her growing awareness of social issues, called her father one recent night, struggling to sleep after reading about the shooting of a 71-year-old Chinese man in Chicago.
snip
Alysa Liu training in Oakland, Calif. Credit...Jim Wilson/The New York Times
Karen Chen placed fifth in the womens short program of the team event at the Beijing Games. Credit...Gabriela Bhaskar/The New York Times
RockRaven
(14,982 posts)That's okay with me. I don't care much either way. And I certainly don't waste time airing my opinion on the matter unprompted.
Is it not okay with you, NYT? Why do you care enough to make a point to talk about it?
cadoman
(792 posts)It's always good for us to be on the lookout for statistical divergences from the base demographic proportions. It allows us to identify potential systemic *isms that may need fixing.
Skittles
(153,171 posts)I wonder if they have ever said white men are "overrepresented"
keithbvadu2
(36,858 posts)They worked for it... as individuals.
They earned it.
JI7
(89,259 posts)brush
(53,802 posts)so be it. Guess whoever wrote this wants white skaters to be the top finishers. Well, they just have to practice harder and show it on the ice.
We certainly don't want our skaters to fall as soon as they get on the ice, like the white woman skier who keeps falling as soon as she gets on the slopes.
Celerity
(43,462 posts)conclusion a reader would draw from it, IMHO.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216342612#post32
brush
(53,802 posts)draw from the "Asian Americans are over-represented in skating? That's not racist to you?
Shouldn't merit be the factor in who is on the American skate team?
And isn't it up to the poster to include some graphs from the story if it's content differs from the headline and tweets in the OP?
Celerity
(43,462 posts)in terms of alleviating (for me) any racist intent or outcomes.
the author's replies
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216342612#post15
and my reply with the article had a link that allows you to read the whole article
https://archive.fo/TfDQ0
brush
(53,802 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)
no tolerance for racism. And IMO that headline about Asians being over-represented in the skating elite is just that, and I feel the poster should've posted some text from the article to show the writer's intent wasn't represented by the headline.
Celerity
(43,462 posts)out if context and making it their headline.
brush
(53,802 posts)Celerity
(43,462 posts)Cheers
betsuni
(25,582 posts)Celerity
(43,462 posts)you are deliberately targeting me with something from another thread
that quote is not in this OP thread
you are baiting me
Response to Celerity (Reply #76)
Post removed
ForgedCrank
(1,782 posts)on some really odd and pointless things just to stir shit I think.
Sometimes I wonder if they get paid for every fight they start or something.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)DickKessler
(364 posts)Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)The Korean author is bigoted against Asians? That's a curious take. Did you read the article?
DickKessler
(364 posts)EDIT: It's not the headline in the article, but the "vividly overrepresented" is in the NYT tweet. That's what I found, at the very least, unnecessarily sensationalist and clickbaity, and a lot of people will respond to it negatively (as seen by this thread).
Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)But the headline is based on his writing and quotes it. I'll take it you did not read it?
brush
(53,802 posts)As was the sentence in the NYT tweet. The OP poster should've added some text from the article to show that was not the intent of the writer...especially since there was a paywall.
Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)Was written by the author, an Asian American journalist at the NYT named Andrew Keh. Is it you position that his statement in the article is racist?
brush
(53,802 posts)of whites in the skating world, that feeling is certainly racist but not that of the writer. It's what his reporting has revealed.
Understand?
There's no escaping the elitist racism in that sentiment, no matter how you try.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Mary in S. Carolina
(1,364 posts)brooklynite
(94,667 posts)W_HAMILTON
(7,870 posts)"...Asians make up around 7% of the U.S. population but have become vividly overrepresented in ice rinks..."
Celerity
(43,462 posts)just knee-jerked at the clipped, pot-stir attempt of the OP title.
sigh
Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)Scores more online points in the outrage olympics than reading for context.
Celerity
(43,462 posts)RobinA
(9,894 posts)People just love a good outrage, apparently. The article comments on a phenomenon. "Overrepresented" is one of those jargony diversity industry words we are flooded with at the moment. If it hadn't been mentioned someone would be whining about that. I'm a figure skating fan. Go Asian Americans on the US team! Go all figure skating Olympians!
DickKessler
(364 posts)with this phrase:
Like, what the fuck?
Celerity
(43,462 posts)Sympthsical
(9,088 posts)Words like representation and over-represented are loaded and have connotations when discussing racial demographics - especially Asians and Asian-Americans. Given many on our own side's willingness to be quite ok with discriminating against Asians in academic admissions, my first impulse was to think that article was about to go down a similar path.
It was a really great, positive article.
But yeah. In the past few years, if you see Asian and over-represented in the same sentence, nine times out of ten someone's about to take a shit all over them in some way.
Given this, I would not have used that phrase as an advertisement for the article. Someone at NYT didn't get the nuance in the history of usage. Fortunately, I read things before posting or reacting.
But knee jerk. Yep. That headline managed it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the number of posters who are salivating for a chance to call something racist. And I bet most of them are white.
58Sunliner
(4,390 posts)Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)Overrepresentation is a simple math problem, not a value judgement. And I'd say "vivid" is a fair description of the many successful Asian American figure skaters in highly visible sporting events like the Olympics.
When you factor in the rest of the article and it's Korean American author, I don't see how anyone (at least anyone who bothered to read the article) could credibly come to the conclusion that it's a low blow.
Sympthsical
(9,088 posts)Sociologists may use that word in a completely neutral way without value judgement in their profession, but it can be a very loaded term in colloquial general public discourse. Usually when you see "overrepresented" somewhere, there's often a presentation of a problem that needs remedying.
And given what has been going on with Asian Americans in academia over the past decade or so, I was absolutely prepared to summon some hackles just based on that one sentence.
Glad to see the piece is nothing in that vein, but I would've definitely picked another word there. Sometimes a speaker doesn't hit listeners quite how they intend.
Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)I think people read far too much into easy to understand words and statements.
That said, my main complaint is for those who jumped to calling the author a bigot and a racist without doing even a bare minimum of looking into who wrote the article or even reading it themselves. It plays into the criticisms against us on the left.
58Sunliner
(4,390 posts)Oh, I read the article.
Yanicosco
(76 posts)BlueCheeseAgain
(1,654 posts)It's just stating a mathematical fact-- that Asian Americans are a larger fraction of the figure skating population than in the US overall.
The article itself interviews a lot of Asian American skaters and talks about how they've drawn inspiration from the ones who came before them. It's clearly a very positive piece overall.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)should have been established for it to avoid misinterpretation, but people shouldn't be leaping to "worst possible" misinterpretation to attack either. Those are very "overrepresented" in this mean, troubled era.
Socially, my first thought was just that it's impossible for any group to be overrepresented in public spaces. Those who want to be there should be.
DFW
(54,422 posts)Asians? What about European-Americans? They dwarf the number of native Americans represented--not only in sports, but in pretty much all aspects of American life. They're everywhere, and they act like they own the place.
Most people in North America don't even speak an American language. They only know European languages, such as Spanish, English or French.
tanyev
(42,591 posts)People from families who can afford years and years of expensive lessons and have at least one person in the family who can make the time to get the kiddos to those lessons.
ETA: And it's not just figure skating. I assume a socioeconomic analysis of any Olympic sport other than those widely available in public schools would show a similar overrepresentation.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)What about us?
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)Guess the NYT is trying to make McConnell's remarks last month about another hyphenated American group seem less out of bounds.
We see what you are doing NYT.
madville
(7,412 posts)Asian women are dominating the LPGA now, like 18 of the top 20 golfers are Asian.
In these individual sports I dont think race plays much of a role. Its more about the parents desire for setting their children up to live and be dedicated to a sport 24/7 from the time they can walk and having the means to finance it. To their credit, Asian parents seem very good at focusing their children to excel in specific things, whether it be academics or a specific sport.
Orrex
(63,219 posts)NYT: "You must be at least as white as this sheet of typing paper to represent the US at the Olympics."
Zeitghost
(3,866 posts)Of this the author? Really?
https://www.nytimes.com/by/andrew-keh
Orrex
(63,219 posts)Hekate
(90,758 posts)For generations, whites were overrepresented in all sports endeavors in the US
and now, they are not. And in all professions, if you want to look at it that way.
Hey, New York Times! You dont have to be woke to just wake up and smell the coffee. The world has moved on.
Cha
(297,447 posts)cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)We shouldn't prevent people who excel from succeeding because of their perceived race.
But of course the unsaid in the article is why is it allowed for figure staking but we don't allow it for admission to Harvard.