General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsExpect to be inundated with a lot of disinformation about the situation in Ukraine. Even here at DU.
You're probably going to hear a lot about appeals about a desire to supposedly be "anti-war" or "anti-imperialism." Expect to hear a lot about NATO expansion in Europe, about the US invasion in Iraq or prior CIA actions in places like Chile or Iran. Expect to hear about how the 2014 Maidan protests in Ukraine were actually a US sponsored coup, or how the current Ukrainian government is corrupted by fascist or neo-Nazi elements.
A lot of this might sound good on the surface, especially to persons--myself included--who fashion themselves pacifists or at least a fan of diplomacy over military action when it comes to foreign affairs.
However, a lot of it is either blatantly untrue, heavily distorted versions of the truth, or simply irrelevant to the current situation at hand.
Use proper discernment and consider the sources being used. Fact check using reliable sources of information. Don't just go on what might sound good on the surface.
This might seem obvious considering that is what we've had to deal with with persons on the right, but the left can--and has been--susceptible to agenda-driven disinformation efforts as well.
And this is not our first go-around here at DU. Perhaps some might remember back in 2014 and 2015 these same talking points making the rounds heavily on DU in light of the Maidan protests and then the Russian annexation of Crimea and their instigation and infusion of pro-Russian fighting in Eastern Ukraine.
There were a lot of posts that went unchallenged and were accepted as true because too many people thought what was being said sounded good. Even some long time DUers fell victim to these trappings.
Thankfully, we're better prepared these days. In 2014-15, the notion of disinformation and false news was still a great unknown, but the 2016 election and subsequent right-wing oriented disinformation efforts have served as a great wakeup call. And a lot of the DUers who participated in spreading the disinformation about Ukraine eight years ago left in the middle of 2016 because they didn't want to get behind the Democratic Party nominee.
But that doesn't mean we should let our guard down. I've already seen disinformation about the Ukrainian situation seeping its way back onto DU, and we can only expect more if matters take a turn for the worse in coming days.
All you have to realize throughout are some very simple truths:
1. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and whether it desires to join NATO or the EU is its own decision, not anyone else's
2. Putin is the sole aggressor in this situation. Not Ukraine. Not NATO. Not the US.
3. The US has no plans to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, nor does Ukraine expect the US to put boots on the ground in Ukraine
4. Ukraine is a democracy--a flawed and fledging democracy, but a democracy nonetheless--and providing material support to a democracy in the face of unjustified aggression is not a bad thing
5. Being "anti-war" or "anti-imperialism" does not mean acquiescing to unchecked aggression by an autocratic regime against its democratic neighbor simply because you think that's "peace." That's not "peace" at all.
In the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Catholic liturgies that are prevalent throughout Ukraine, there is at one point in the mass where the celebrating priest--before reading the gospel--announces to the congregation, "Wisdom! Be attentive!"
Now, putting aside any discussion of religious belief or lack thereof, on a simply secular level, that's still very good advice to be had in any type of given situation.
Wisdom.
Be attentive.
SheltieLover
(60,142 posts)The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Wounded Bear
(60,810 posts)iemanja
(54,882 posts)and I was happy to see all but a couple of DUers call the poster out on his bullshit.
Ocelot II
(121,395 posts)SheltieLover
(60,142 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,529 posts)sarisataka
(21,264 posts)I have been seeing many "poor misunderstood Russia" or "whatabout when the US did..." comments.
Regardless if the reason is Russia is the victim or we are far more evil I expect quite a bit more posts supporting Russia can do whatever they please.
Faux pas
(15,413 posts)Irish_Dem
(59,477 posts)PortTack
(34,822 posts)There are lots of reliable news sources coming out of the EU...NOT the guardian, theyre as bad as the news here
mactire
(126 posts)I had just been referred to a couple informative sources regarding the situation Ukraine is/ has been with Russia the many years. A scholar from Cambridge, Rory Finnin, associated with Ukrainian studies department, just submitted an opinion piece a couple days ago to Politico magazine(politico.com), and recently authored a book Blood of Others-Stalins criminal atrocity and the poetics of solidarity. I found the opinion piece to be a relevant synopsis leading up to current events. I intend to find the book to read and learn more. I recall a CNN international interview with him from a few years ago regarding Russias nefarious intents over Crimea. He demonstrated his expertise quite convincingly.
EX500rider
(11,536 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Finally got one long-time troll kicked off.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,606 posts)That poster was rather subtle about pushing the message, which made him/her all the more insidious.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Tommymac
(7,334 posts)These are needed warnings. You rock.
W_HAMILTON
(8,555 posts)Furthermore, those anti-"forever-war" types on the left that somehow are unwilling to simply call out Russia and instead try to deflect and place blame on the U.S. or other Western countries for Russia's military aggressions, they should especially be called out.
You don't get to fucking call everyone and their mother a "war criminal" for years and then sit silent when Russia is literally amassing troops on a democratic nation's borders with an evil intent to invade. We see you.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)agreeing that "security concerns" are forcing Russia to invade a far weaker sovereign democracy.
C Moon
(12,600 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Oh surely not!
Sympthsical
(10,391 posts)Can't figure misinformation over a football game, but international diplomacy? Tch, cakewalk.
I am enjoying, "If you don't want war, you're pro-Russia," spin happening. Seems . . . Republicanish. Actually, anything disagreeable is pro-Russia these days, so who knows.
I have not been following the Ukraine situation, so I have almost zero knowledgeable opinion on it outside of Putin is aggressive and expansionist. So . . . I don't discuss it.
Which is kind of a radical position to take, admittedly.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Im anti-war. Period.
Yes, the accusations are bizarre.
betsuni
(27,299 posts)mn9driver
(4,590 posts)If Russia invades Ukraine, they are the aggressor. And they can be expected to do it again unless Putin pays a very heavy price. The end.
yaesu
(8,341 posts)of his piss poor economy & turn him into a 3rd world dictator who has no friends other than the GOP.
dalton99a
(84,832 posts)WarGamer
(15,714 posts)What misinformation?
MontanaMama
(24,083 posts)Needed to be said.
Lithos
(26,466 posts)The usual disinformationalists are starting their rounds. Tulsi, Rand, etc.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,606 posts)Who although no one on the left would ever admit to taking seriously, does have a lot of the Glenn Greenwald, Tulsi Gabbard types on his program who some still do.
ancianita
(38,856 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)In the real world, refusing to stop aggressors like Russia and the Third Reich from making war is not pacifism, it's enabling war. There are arguments for sitting back and refusing to stop a war, but being against war isn't one of them.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,606 posts)It's rather cringeworthy in hindsight:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10026252363
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024677598
uponit7771
(91,972 posts)... there is some serious balloons floated here at minimum
Marcuse
(8,045 posts)11 Bravo
(24,075 posts)FakeNoose
(35,981 posts)I'm glad I don't use Twitter, and I wish our DUers wouldn't post these Twitter rumors here on DU.
We have to keep calm and not over- react to this stuff. And right now it isn't easy to do.