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Tommy Carcetti

(43,606 posts)
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 12:03 PM Feb 2022

Expect to be inundated with a lot of disinformation about the situation in Ukraine. Even here at DU.

You're probably going to hear a lot about appeals about a desire to supposedly be "anti-war" or "anti-imperialism." Expect to hear a lot about NATO expansion in Europe, about the US invasion in Iraq or prior CIA actions in places like Chile or Iran. Expect to hear about how the 2014 Maidan protests in Ukraine were actually a US sponsored coup, or how the current Ukrainian government is corrupted by fascist or neo-Nazi elements.

A lot of this might sound good on the surface, especially to persons--myself included--who fashion themselves pacifists or at least a fan of diplomacy over military action when it comes to foreign affairs.

However, a lot of it is either blatantly untrue, heavily distorted versions of the truth, or simply irrelevant to the current situation at hand.

Use proper discernment and consider the sources being used. Fact check using reliable sources of information. Don't just go on what might sound good on the surface.

This might seem obvious considering that is what we've had to deal with with persons on the right, but the left can--and has been--susceptible to agenda-driven disinformation efforts as well.

And this is not our first go-around here at DU. Perhaps some might remember back in 2014 and 2015 these same talking points making the rounds heavily on DU in light of the Maidan protests and then the Russian annexation of Crimea and their instigation and infusion of pro-Russian fighting in Eastern Ukraine.

There were a lot of posts that went unchallenged and were accepted as true because too many people thought what was being said sounded good. Even some long time DUers fell victim to these trappings.

Thankfully, we're better prepared these days. In 2014-15, the notion of disinformation and false news was still a great unknown, but the 2016 election and subsequent right-wing oriented disinformation efforts have served as a great wakeup call. And a lot of the DUers who participated in spreading the disinformation about Ukraine eight years ago left in the middle of 2016 because they didn't want to get behind the Democratic Party nominee.

But that doesn't mean we should let our guard down. I've already seen disinformation about the Ukrainian situation seeping its way back onto DU, and we can only expect more if matters take a turn for the worse in coming days.

All you have to realize throughout are some very simple truths:

1. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and whether it desires to join NATO or the EU is its own decision, not anyone else's
2. Putin is the sole aggressor in this situation. Not Ukraine. Not NATO. Not the US.
3. The US has no plans to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, nor does Ukraine expect the US to put boots on the ground in Ukraine
4. Ukraine is a democracy--a flawed and fledging democracy, but a democracy nonetheless--and providing material support to a democracy in the face of unjustified aggression is not a bad thing
5. Being "anti-war" or "anti-imperialism" does not mean acquiescing to unchecked aggression by an autocratic regime against its democratic neighbor simply because you think that's "peace." That's not "peace" at all.

In the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Catholic liturgies that are prevalent throughout Ukraine, there is at one point in the mass where the celebrating priest--before reading the gospel--announces to the congregation, "Wisdom! Be attentive!"

Now, putting aside any discussion of religious belief or lack thereof, on a simply secular level, that's still very good advice to be had in any type of given situation.

Wisdom.

Be attentive.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Expect to be inundated with a lot of disinformation about the situation in Ukraine. Even here at DU. (Original Post) Tommy Carcetti Feb 2022 OP
Absofuckingloutely! SheltieLover Feb 2022 #1
Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2022 #2
Indeed! Healthy skepticism will be required...nt Wounded Bear Feb 2022 #3
It's already started iemanja Feb 2022 #4
Thank you. Those are wise words. Ocelot II Feb 2022 #5
This DU post about former Russian general's criticism of putin's aggression speaks volumes! (Link) SheltieLover Feb 2022 #6
Tell it like it is. comradebillyboy Feb 2022 #7
In posts about both Ukraine and the Olympics sarisataka Feb 2022 #8
... Faux pas Feb 2022 #9
Exactly. Putin cries for a buffer from NATO. But Ukraine is the one who needs a buffer from Putin. Irish_Dem Feb 2022 #10
I don't listen to any of the news here regarding Ukraine PortTack Feb 2022 #11
Ukraine history with Russia mactire Feb 2022 #12
BBC story about that: "Ukraine crisis: Is Russia waging an information war?" EX500rider Feb 2022 #13
Yup, I've been seeing it here. lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #14
I just noticed that one. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2022 #27
Yup - really had to pay attention to get it. lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #31
Outstanding OP. Bookmarked. Thank You so much. Tommymac Feb 2022 #15
I've already seen it. W_HAMILTON Feb 2022 #16
+1 betsuni Feb 2022 #18
That last! We also see those who called us "hypocritical" for not Hortensis Feb 2022 #33
putin's owned GOP congresspeople are probably going to appeal to the anti-vax /maskers on this one. C Moon Feb 2022 #17
Disinformation? Here on DU? BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #19
I laughed Sympthsical Feb 2022 #23
I'm staying out of that particular idiocy myself. BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #36
K&R betsuni Feb 2022 #20
Yep, it's pretty simple when you think about it. mn9driver Feb 2022 #21
Its all risk with no reward for putee, it may feed his megalomania but it will destroy what is left yaesu Feb 2022 #22
Kick dalton99a Feb 2022 #24
No way! I heard Putin's Mom drove him to Wisconsin with Straw purchase Borscht in the trunk! WarGamer Feb 2022 #25
Excellent OP. MontanaMama Feb 2022 #26
You can already see the start of the campaign Lithos Feb 2022 #28
Also Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson... Tommy Carcetti Feb 2022 #29
Well said. Thanks for your post. One good, dependable source is bellingcat's Ukraine page. ancianita Feb 2022 #30
+100, especially those simple truths for understanding this situation. Hortensis Feb 2022 #32
Just as an example about how posts were here in 2014-15 on this topic, a brief sample. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2022 #34
+1, didn't recognize those threads at the time just saw them as minimizing what Putin was doing... uponit7771 Feb 2022 #40
My YouTube algorithm is sending anti American "military analysis" videos with b-roll of US forces. Marcuse Feb 2022 #35
Nicely said. I wish I could rec this more than once. 11 Bravo Feb 2022 #37
Thanks for the calm clarity FakeNoose Feb 2022 #38
K&R, Putin the pimp has lost the benefit of the doubt ever since Crimea uponit7771 Feb 2022 #39

iemanja

(54,882 posts)
4. It's already started
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 12:11 PM
Feb 2022

and I was happy to see all but a couple of DUers call the poster out on his bullshit.

sarisataka

(21,264 posts)
8. In posts about both Ukraine and the Olympics
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 12:18 PM
Feb 2022

I have been seeing many "poor misunderstood Russia" or "whatabout when the US did..." comments.

Regardless if the reason is Russia is the victim or we are far more evil I expect quite a bit more posts supporting Russia can do whatever they please.

Irish_Dem

(59,477 posts)
10. Exactly. Putin cries for a buffer from NATO. But Ukraine is the one who needs a buffer from Putin.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 12:22 PM
Feb 2022

PortTack

(34,822 posts)
11. I don't listen to any of the news here regarding Ukraine
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 12:56 PM
Feb 2022

There are lots of reliable news sources coming out of the EU...NOT the guardian, they’re as bad as the news here

mactire

(126 posts)
12. Ukraine history with Russia
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 01:34 PM
Feb 2022

I had just been referred to a couple informative sources regarding the situation Ukraine is/ has been with Russia the many years. A scholar from Cambridge, Rory Finnin, associated with Ukrainian studies department, just submitted an opinion piece a couple days ago to Politico magazine(politico.com), and recently authored a book “Blood of Others-Stalin’s criminal atrocity and the poetics of solidarity”. I found the opinion piece to be a relevant synopsis leading up to current events. I intend to find the book to read and learn more. I recall a CNN international interview with him from a few years ago regarding Russia’s nefarious intents over Crimea. He demonstrated his expertise quite convincingly.

Tommy Carcetti

(43,606 posts)
27. I just noticed that one.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:58 PM
Feb 2022

That poster was rather subtle about pushing the message, which made him/her all the more insidious.

W_HAMILTON

(8,555 posts)
16. I've already seen it.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 01:56 PM
Feb 2022

Furthermore, those anti-"forever-war" types on the left that somehow are unwilling to simply call out Russia and instead try to deflect and place blame on the U.S. or other Western countries for Russia's military aggressions, they should especially be called out.

You don't get to fucking call everyone and their mother a "war criminal" for years and then sit silent when Russia is literally amassing troops on a democratic nation's borders with an evil intent to invade. We see you.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
33. That last! We also see those who called us "hypocritical" for not
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 03:21 PM
Feb 2022

agreeing that "security concerns" are forcing Russia to invade a far weaker sovereign democracy.

C Moon

(12,600 posts)
17. putin's owned GOP congresspeople are probably going to appeal to the anti-vax /maskers on this one.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:42 PM
Feb 2022

Sympthsical

(10,391 posts)
23. I laughed
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:54 PM
Feb 2022

Can't figure misinformation over a football game, but international diplomacy? Tch, cakewalk.

I am enjoying, "If you don't want war, you're pro-Russia," spin happening. Seems . . . Republicanish. Actually, anything disagreeable is pro-Russia these days, so who knows.

I have not been following the Ukraine situation, so I have almost zero knowledgeable opinion on it outside of Putin is aggressive and expansionist. So . . . I don't discuss it.

Which is kind of a radical position to take, admittedly.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
36. I'm staying out of that particular idiocy myself.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 05:45 PM
Feb 2022

I’m anti-war. Period.

Yes, the accusations are bizarre.

mn9driver

(4,590 posts)
21. Yep, it's pretty simple when you think about it.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:51 PM
Feb 2022

If Russia invades Ukraine, they are the aggressor. And they can be expected to do it again unless Putin pays a very heavy price. The end.

yaesu

(8,341 posts)
22. Its all risk with no reward for putee, it may feed his megalomania but it will destroy what is left
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:53 PM
Feb 2022

of his piss poor economy & turn him into a 3rd world dictator who has no friends other than the GOP.

WarGamer

(15,714 posts)
25. No way! I heard Putin's Mom drove him to Wisconsin with Straw purchase Borscht in the trunk!
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:57 PM
Feb 2022

What misinformation?

Lithos

(26,466 posts)
28. You can already see the start of the campaign
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 02:59 PM
Feb 2022

The usual disinformationalists are starting their rounds. Tulsi, Rand, etc.


Tommy Carcetti

(43,606 posts)
29. Also Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson...
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 03:01 PM
Feb 2022

Who although no one on the left would ever admit to taking seriously, does have a lot of the Glenn Greenwald, Tulsi Gabbard types on his program who some still do.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
32. +100, especially those simple truths for understanding this situation.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 03:15 PM
Feb 2022

In the real world, refusing to stop aggressors like Russia and the Third Reich from making war is not pacifism, it's enabling war. There are arguments for sitting back and refusing to stop a war, but being against war isn't one of them.

uponit7771

(91,972 posts)
40. +1, didn't recognize those threads at the time just saw them as minimizing what Putin was doing...
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 08:24 PM
Feb 2022

... there is some serious balloons floated here at minimum

Marcuse

(8,045 posts)
35. My YouTube algorithm is sending anti American "military analysis" videos with b-roll of US forces.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 05:18 PM
Feb 2022

FakeNoose

(35,981 posts)
38. Thanks for the calm clarity
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 06:38 PM
Feb 2022

I'm glad I don't use Twitter, and I wish our DUers wouldn't post these Twitter rumors here on DU.

We have to keep calm and not over- react to this stuff. And right now it isn't easy to do.

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