Some hopeful good news, I just talked to a Trump voter I know.

[fightforfreedom]

He is still swallowing propaganda like a pig at a trough. He still hates Democrats and says crazy things about Democrats that are not true. However, his attitude towards Trump has changed.

He admits Trump is in trouble in the NY investigations and the Georgia investigation. He also agreed with me that it would be best for everyone, our country, if Trump simply faded away. Quit politics completely and just went golfing, do something beside politics. He also admitted Trump went too far on Jan 6th. This was a big change for him. In the past he always defended Trump no matter what.

He doesn't yet see the crimes Trump committed on the level we do, but he is at least admitting Trump did commit crimes , went too far when it comes to Jan 6th.

[RKP5637]

1. Yep, at least it's a start! n/t

[YoshidaYui]

62. This

N/t

[Bayard]

2. TFG goes away,

But the hate remains.

[RKP5637]

3. IMO the US has always been filled with hatred, lots, but it was underneath, not exposed as much.

I don't know if there is more today ... or if we just see it more now Trump ripped the scabs off of it.

[barbtries]

57. i feel as if it's worse now.

there is so much contempt, rudeness, hatefulness in situations that don't call for any of that. I don't remember that happening in earlier decades. I must have lived a sheltered life, but it just seems uglier these days. I don't know.

[dwayneb]

59. Blame technology

When we released the power of the Internet into the world we did not have clue one what would happen. It has allowed the spread of disinformation and propaganda at a pace 10X anything in previous history.

I also sincerely believe that enemies outside the USA - Russia, China, N Korea and others have been fueling the fires of division and hatred in this country from the very beginning of the WWW. And it is has worked better than their wildest dreams.

[barbtries]

61. definitely a double edged sword.

technology made DU possible. I can work from home thanks to technology, and see my children even when they're on the other side of the country...but of course there are so many people who only look at it and how they can use it to exploit others while enriching themselves.

racism and misogyny, xenophobia and nationalism...I think in the USA these mindsets have been baked in for centuries, unfortunately. I remember when i was young I would sometimes think, this is the best country in the world and I'm really lucky to be an American. I don't feel that way anymore - I was not correct then, but I did believe it.

so yes, technology, but not technology itself. I blame humans primarily.

[Hortensis]

64. :) It's mean people. "Watch for mean people."

Last edited Tue Feb 22, 2022, 04:37 AM - Edit history (1)

An expert on nations in danger of falling to authoritarian takeovers, asked a couple years ago what people should look for, gave that simple advice. You're so right, of course, about more contempt, rudeness, hatefulness and people acting more ugly.

Germany was grew full of mean people in the 1930s and 40s of the Nazis; everyone was white, though, including the 0.5% or so who were Jewish, so to be the master race they had to make up various European "races." Russia, China, Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Rohingha. Cambodians killed over a quarter of their own people to create a socialist utopia. How many thousands of societies through history have gone mean and turned on each other?

I'm very disappointed in us that we're not turning out to be more resistant to barbarism. I really don't think America's especially bad, though; we've done better than other advanced nations at other times and are doing worse than some now; I think we're more of an early warning at this time to other advanced nations undergoing the same stresses. Malignant use of technology may have something to do with it. And of course Russia's poisoning of cultures in its political warfare.

But in any case, "racism, misogyny, xenophobia and nationalism" are deeply embedded in virtually all cultures, and we're a nation of immigrant cultures. Ideological and religious conflicts also cause those rivers of blood, of course, hundreds of millions in the last century and some ongoing right now. And here we are.

So a long way of saying I agree with blaming humans primarily and feel more sympathy with our own current struggles with people who've gone wrong than blame. These things happen when decent people lose control to those who go bad wrong under the wrong influences.

[RKP5637]

66. Yes, well said! n/t

[BeyondGeography]

5. No one hates like him though

On an emotional level he’s more twisted than anything else the GOP has in the pipeline. His fans love that he lives for nothing more than to provoke, settle scores, bully the weak, shoot the wounded (aka his lessers) and rage at the multiple forces that he sees as ever conspiring to make him the miserable unredeemable wretch that he knows himself to be.

Some may have had enough, but they’ll vote for anything the runs against a Democrat. Trump brought out the politically indifferent in waves because he offered them a perverse form of satisfaction that conventional politicians can never deliver, at least not with the 24/7 consistency that they demand.

Take Trump away and the GOP has some rebuilding to do.

[PatSeg]

7. And Trump treated politics like a reality TV show

and that was something that the politically indifferent could relate to. His kind of politics didn't require much actual thought or analysis. "Hey, this is just like watching American Pickers or Ice Road Truckers."

[BeyondGeography]

12. He fits right in to the great American trash tour

Last edited Mon Feb 21, 2022, 02:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Many felt seen in ways they had never experienced before. He was a one-man normalization machine for grievous personal failings that better people wrestle with and try to rise above.

You could take notes and try to copy the guy, but he is the real deal. Once he understood there was no political price to pay with his base for pushing the envelope the romance was on.

It will be good for the country when he leaves the scene as a potential President.

[PatSeg]

20. Yes, others can't imitate him

because he had an "I don't give a crap" attitude and when he found out his supporters loved that, he just cranked it up. In the beginning I think it was just a branding exercise for Trump and he didn't seem to care about political consequences. Of course once he got a taste of real power, he was hooked. I think sometimes he went out of his way to be outrageous just to see if he would lose support. Even he was surprised when he didn't.

So I don't believe someone else can fill his shoes, because all of them are political creatures and they will be faking what just came naturally to someone like Trump. The Magats know the difference between an authentic faker and a fake faker!

[fightforfreedom]

21. No one can fill Trumps shoes.

He is a freak of nature. A freak created by his father.

[PatSeg]

24. Yes, there can only be one

And one of Trump is far too many!

Meanwhile, Fred Trump was probably created by HIS father as well. The cycle continues unfortunately. Men with Daddy issues can be very dangerous. Don't marry them, don't make them boss, and don't elect them to positions of power.

[dwayneb]

60. True - but worse than Trump may be coming

As vile and disgusting as Trump was and is, there is one advantage. We always knows exactly what he will do in any given situation - he is very predictable.

God forbid we elect a shrewd calculating thug more like like Putin, someone who can sooth the proles while he works to destroy our democracy from within. Could a LOT worse than Trump.

[MiHale]

4. I've noticed recently...

that in my predominantly red area of rural northern Michigan the homes that proudly waved TFG’s flags for years are taking them down and not replacing them.

[fightforfreedom]

6. Cults are like fads.

Eventually they slowly fade away.

[DownriverDem]

11. Big trumpers

up there. I'm in SE Michigan and we have to deal with Macomb County trumpers.

[PatSeg]

25. Well, that's good to hear

Besides, there are so many reality TV shows to watch and they are making new ones all the time.

[birdographer]

51. Same here

The clown at the end of our road had 3 flags on his front deck--a Trump 2024, a confederate flag, and an American flag. We noticed that the trump flag and the confederate flag are gone now. Would be nice if some are seeing just a glimmer of the light.

[hippywife]

8. Push comes to shove...

not counting on his vote.

[DENVERPOPS]

9. The Republicans are faced with a real dilemma

They want to be rid of Trump, but keep his massive cult of voters. So, the Repubs are standing back and letting the Dems go after him, so they can claim innocence and blame the Damn Dems for taking down Trump......

Then they can put in a tyrant leader who appears to be a kinder nicer person, pretend all is well, and that the last five+ years didn't even exist, and move full steam ahead in progressing their Fascist goals.........

[FakeNoose]

14. They want another movie star like Ronald Reagan

... who smiles for the cameras and doesn't insult people. But Chump's problem (one of many) was that he was always yelling at people. He was full of outrage 24/7. It gets tiresome, even for Repukes, and Reagan never did that in 8 years.

[DENVERPOPS]

19. To call those regimes

the REAGAN ADMINISTRATION or the "W" ADMINISTRATION is laughable.....

They were both truly run by HWBush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/ etc

The same characters were lurking in the shadows, directing everything behind smoke and mirrors during the "Reagan" years,
the "HWBUSH" years, and continuing full steam ahead with the "W" years..............

Twenty of the last forty years, and add "Trump's" four years for the crowning blow to achieve their goals of destroying the middle class and Democracy. All with the massive help of our chief enemy, Russia/Putin.........(the end justifies the means)

[MadameButterfly]

41. Yeah, the problem doesn't go away with Trump

The damage is done. They dare to overturn elections, behave like Fascists in plain view, spread Pravda-like propaganda, cheat and teal at every turn while accusing the other side of the same...This never would have occured to them--or at least it would have been tempered by them believing that had to hide it--before Trump.

[dwayneb]

58. Dead on Denver

People have not figured out just yet that there could be far worse than Trump on the horizon. At least with Trump you know exactly what he is thinking, he does not have a clever or shrewd bone in his body. Just a bombastic flip flopper.

Make no mistake their end goal is one-party rule, a Mafia Family style government - and the right autocrat could definitely rise through the ranks over the next few years.

The only stabilizing force right now ((just my opinion) are corporations and all of the wealthy executives and powerful people in those organizations. This is because when and if the neo-Fascists finally succeed at overturning our rule of law and the Constitution, our economy will fail in a catastrophic fashion. And no one will be spared at any level of our society. GM, GE, Ford, Tesla, Microsoft, Apple do NOT want a Fascist takeover in this country. They have way too much at stake.

[DENVERPOPS]

63. Agree

thanks for your equally correct comments........

[oldsoftie]

68. Trumps age needs to become a factor. He needs to start sounding like the crazy uncle.

yes, I know, to us here he's already been sounding like that.
But there is a level that would get the attention of his minions. And as much as he eagerly accepts interviews and the like, if he slipped down the hole further it would be hard to hide

[wryter2000]

10. Unfortunately

He still hates Democrats, so he'll vote for any nitwit the Republicans put out there.

[pandr32]

13. I've noticed similar with a few

...which is good news to the tune that there won't be much of an uprising when TFG is indicted.

[NQAS]

15. I was in the laundromat the other day

Overheard a few guys talking about the Covid vaccine, as in, more people are dying who've had the covid vaccine than people who have not had it. Of course, this is not true, with a hefty margin of error.

You know what it sounded like? Cliff in Cheers. Just blithering on about things they know nothing about, don't want to know the reality, and wouldn't know how to take it in if it was fed to them bit by bit. In Cheers it was funny. In 2021 reality, it's sad. Sad, and also dangerous. And people with this attitude will continue to die in larger numbers than those living in the reality-based universe.

[fightforfreedom]

18. There is a always a certain percentage of people who cannot be saved from their delusions, stupidity

That's how it is with the Trump voters, that's how it has been throughout history.

[DENVERPOPS]

23. Check this out in the Archives:

I clipped it from a newspaper, on a Sunday Doonesbury the day it was published, and has been on my wall since the early 80's

Sunday November 4th, 1984

It is one of Doonesbury's ALL TIME classics..........................

With all the daily re-runs of Doonesbury, This one should have been re-run, once a month, on a Sunday, during the entire
Trump years...........

[mahina]

32. Can't wait to see it. Thanks.

[ZonkerHarris]

43. link below

https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1984/11/04

[jaxexpat]

16. Well, in a world of goats and sheep, he still swings goatish, or so it seems.

[OMGWTF]

17. If TFG gets away with his MYRIAD of crimes while in office, then J6 was just a dress rehearsal

and the fleecing and flogging of the US will continue unabated.

[SouthernDem4ever]

22. This can't be permitted to happen

[patphil]

26. Apparently even stupid has it's limits.

This is good news for the nation.

[fightforfreedom]

27. Yes it does.

[Joinfortmill]

28. Sounds like a breakthrough.

[Tree Lady]

29. I noticed my republican daughter (42)

Thankfully only a few in family, let me talk yesterday without defending republicans like she did in the past. I said what besides making abortion illegal, doing anything you want with guns, not caring about covid and paying no taxes are you for? She couldn't come up with anything and her attitude about covid has changed (she is fully vaxed) since some family members got it both the one unvaxed and a few vaxed. She tested positive but no symptoms luckily but she is top manager everyone depends on and she had to take time away something she never does. She barely takes a vacation day.

My grandson got his girlfriend pregnant and they had abortion and I can see her attitude about that softening.

She used to just laugh about Trump and say media was lying about him, now she never brings his name up. She even said she was grateful for Obama because her kids in 20's are still on medical. I said you know the democrats did that right? You never would have had that with your party.

She is not a fanatical republican, and those that are not are softening.

[fightforfreedom]

34. Exactly, not all Trump voters are fanatical.

They all got caught up in group think, cult think, but not all of them are completely hopeless. Overtime they come to their senses and realize they were fooled. That doesn't mean they will start loving Democrats, but at least they will stop following a lunatic.

[Tree Lady]

50. I live out of state from her

Boyfriend, and all the managers and friends she hangs with are republicans except family which doesn't see her often so they have more influence. She is making good money and thats her number one reason. I told her she would have to make a bit more for it to matter.

[Schmice3]

30. Won't last. They live in Lotus Land

[calimary]

31. Yep. It's a start.

More, please!

[Mad_Machine76]

33. Progress!

Small but sounds like Jan. 6 might have broken the spell for some and got them to at least start considering the possibility that he's a crook and not want him to be President again.

[SWBTATTReg]

35. rump is doing far more damage to himself then anyone else is or can. It's actually better this way,

in that previously, if democrats or anyone else said anything, then tRump would whine on endlessly and distract the whole conversation and he would get away with in. Now, when he's the only person in the conversation (he's talking to himself/about himself, he's such a narc about himself) most people (and a lot of former believers of tRump) are seeing through his lies, his BS, etc.).

What scares me the most is what other classified information did he steal?

What else did he steal from the office of the highest land?

Who else did he compromise while in office? Did he reveal spies to the Russians or Chinese while in office? No wonder a lot of people in his administration etc. didn't bring actual classified information into his office, he would have stolen it and given it to the Russians, or the Chinese for a price.

I still recall one of tRump's former advisors saying that she never heard tRump advocate for the U.S., but instead, advocated solely for himself.

[DemUnleashed]

36. That's pretty big!

If I heard any of my Trumplican friends say things like this, I would definitely be smiling a little!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. This is EXACTLY how we figure this thing out. Work

around the edges. Find out what a "not brain dead" R is thinking and hammer away. Everyone who knows a trumper has likely heard " love him but agree he shouldn't spend all that time on crazy tweets". Honestly don't get how D ptb who can produce ads don't get this.

[fightforfreedom]

49. Exactly, that's why I believe Trump could lose more voters if he takes the 5th.

They have seen his video talking about the 5th. Some Trump voters will turn on him if he takes the 5th. He told them only guilty people take the 5th. Not all Trump voters are braindead.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

71. Gee, it's so hard to know without any data huh

I think we need detailed polling and focus group data! To determine the exact things that could potentially turn people away from him?

We definitely don't need more people saying there is absolutely no way any person who ever voted for trump could be persuaded or don't have some things they don't like.

So this subject matter, him pleading the fifth on would be about his finances. A while back it was shown he made millions? But only paid $700? Over 10 years. Did any of them care? And Eric pleaded the 5th 500 times. Did anyone care? Bottom line do we know? Or more importantly - will any Dem ptb put out ads to show hypocrisy?

[Ferrets are Cool]

38. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he still hates Democrats and will vote against them/us

at every chance. Just because they moved on from tfg doesn't mean a thing.

[fightforfreedom]

39. It does mean something.

Trump is one of a kind lunatic. No one can fill his shoes. Many will try and they will fail. If they stop following Trump that is a big deal.
There are some Trump voters who only vote because of Trump. Trump energized the far, far right like no other.

When the cult leader goes away, the cult goes away.

[Ferrets are Cool]

40. I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

Anyone who votes repug is my enemy.

[oldsoftie]

69. I agree. look how many times its happened in the past. Just not politically.

He has that TV star BS attraction. Plus the long believed myth of being such a great businessman

[C Moon]

42. Great to hear!

[ZonkerHarris]

44. Trump can't just go golf. he needs that base for income. Grifters gotta grift. That means he has to

pretend he's interested in politics and world events, to rile them up and get their money.
he has no choice.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

45. Great start, still needs a labotomy to think on his own though

TFG won't go away until the piggies stop paying to eat at his trough

[tiredtoo]

46. Possible good news, maybe not?

I talked to a trump supporter Friday night. Told him as long as he continues to vote republican he can expect more of the same shit. (We were discussing income taxes.) He replied "I haven't voted for a republican in years." I reminded him of the time he told me he would listen to me but I would not change his republican ways. He then told me he has given up on voting at all. So, may be good but not voting at all vs. voting for Democratic candidates is not great.?

[GoodRaisin]

47. Unfortunately still swallowing everybody else's lies.

Still a straight R ticket voter.

[liberalla]

48. That is progress.

It's not enough yet. But it is recognizable progress.

[denvine]

52. Bad news for Trump but still not good news for the country.

Sounds like he will still support the worst of the worst, Trump's creation.

[soldierant]

53. So he has all the Trump**-induced hatreds and lies, just without Trump**.

I don't think I would call that good news. It implies that all the hate - and authoritarianism - and general insanites - can live indefinitely no matter what happens to Trump**.

It probably does imply that we will be able to hold Trump** accountable without triggering civil war. But it doesn't preclude civil war itself - just civil war on behalf of Trump**.

[oldsoftie]

70. Maybe he stops sending trump money. That can add up to big losses for TFG

As others have said, its a start. A crack in the armor. And cracks can get bigger. I've seen it with people I know. So we're not alone. And that's how he lost in '20

[Wingus Dingus]

54. I think this will happen more and more. It's a good sign.

Maybe the fever is breaking, after 5 years.

[Hotler]

55. Their hate for Democrats will not die even if TFG fades away. They will latch onto

anyone (candidate) they see as being able to bring hurt to Dems and Libs. Beware of DeSantis, he's meaner and more vengeful than the orange one. He's a nazi.

[barbtries]

56. he (and millions more just like him)

are going to have to lose that knee jerk hatred of Democrats and liberals to effect a change. I was just thinking about that this morning. They're like Pavlov's dogs I think, they have been trained to hate us so much that even policies that benefit them are unacceptable because they came from the wrong side of the aisle.

full disclosure I'm damn close to feeling just that way about them.

[quakerboy]

65. Thats what they do

It was amazing how many people who voted for bush turned on him hard once he was no longer the leader. Trump is the same.. once he is personally no longer a viable messiah, they will move on to the next. Theres no deep meaning or change, just means they never have to reckon with their past mistakes in coming to new ones.

[oldsoftie]

67. You're not alone. I've seen it too. Even before the election.

Different things set off different people, but I know some who voted Libertarian and at least ONE who even voted for Biden.