Can someone explain to me---in a way that makes sense---how Putin's announcement that

[Atticus]

HE HAS CREATED AND RECOGNIZES TWO NEW COUNTRIES, Donetsk and Luhansk, is not just the first of a foreseeable series of "takeovers" that must collide with NATO?

Will his stooges in these two "new countries" not soon "invite" Russian forces across the border to "defend" their ethnic Russians against Ukrainian "genocide"?

If the Ukrainian border is not our "line in the sand", what is?

Do we really believe that any sanctions we impose will deter further invasions?

I believe we are at the point where there simply are no good choices as to how to proceed. We either concede Ukraine to Trump's pal or we act militarily to defend the embattled nation.

Or, maybe we could just pretend there's a middle ground that won't encourage both Russia and China to "reclaim" nations they want to occupy.

[Ray Bruns]

1. Allow Ukraine into NATO. That will flame his pants.

[brooklynite]

2. We can't

NATO entry requirements include having no territorial conflicts.

[AntiFascist]

9. That may be part of what is to be "negotiated"...

Allow recognition of the regions that Russia already has under its control, but then NATO becomes tighter with the rest of Ukraine.

[Ray Bruns]

15. You mean it would violate the NATO treaty

Much like Putin just did with the Minsk Agreements?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[brooklynite]

17. So you're saying we should violate the NATO treaty...

Sigh…

[walkingman]

5. How would you like a Central American country to become a part of the CTSO?

Probably not so much. Why is it in US interest to include Ukraine into NATO? Less than 50% of Ukrainians want to join NATO.

[ananda]

12. You can't have troops or separatist regions.

That's why Putin is playing divide and conquer in Ukraine.

He already did it in Georgia, specifically to keep it out of
NATO.

However, with this approach, Russia will also have to
support the separatist regions with endless money and other
ways.

[PortTack]

3. No doubt this is what he has in mind. At the conference in the EU, the one VP Harris attended,

The western Alliance and NATO countries did draw a line in the sand saying enough.

[Grasswire2]

4. Didn't we promise to defend Ukraine if they gave up their nukes?

I'm late to this party.

Conquest of territory is so OLD WORLD. Sigh.

[2naSalit]

8. +1

[Grasswire2]

11. crickets. crickets. nt

[2naSalit]

13. Seems to me that a Senator Biden...

Was involved with that.

[TomSlick]

19. Yes, we (and western Europe) made those guarantees of Ukrainian security.

The question is whether those guarantees meant anything.

[cilla4progress]

6. Biden plan

Check out this cross-post.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216378532

[pecosbob]

7. These maps show the territory Putin wants...everything pink or yellow in the third map

Unless Putin decides to invade Poland, NATO doesn't really come into play. All the rest is saber-rattling. Putin wants to play Stalin, but he doesn't have the iron grip on the country Stalin had.

https://www.justsecurity.org/80149/retired-russian-generals-criticize-putin-over-ukraine-renew-call-for-his-resignation/

Ivashov’s main criticism is focused on the threat to Ukraine. He argues that the attempts to force people to “love” Russia and its leaders through ultimatums and threat are senseless and very dangerous. To use military force against Ukraine puts the very existence of Russia as a state in question. It will make Russians and Ukrainians mortal enemies forever. It will cost both sides tens of thousands of deaths, he argues. NATO members might be forced to declare war on Russia after they have suffered various losses.

[maxrandb]

10. It will be nasty, but I think the Ukrainians are fully capable of acting militarily

They aren't Afghanistan. It will suck for them. A lot of people will die, but if this does anything, it will lead to the destruction of Putin and Russia.

Like Hitler, he will seal his defeat as soon as he fires the first shot.

It will take time, and things will get very ugly, but he won't win.

BTW - I spent 28 years in the Navy. Neither Russia, nor China's Navy would survive a month against the United States Navy.

Putin simply doesn't respect the will of the United States, or NATO.

He should.

[Gore1FL]

14. I guess a formal invitation to Donetsk and Luhansk to join NATO would be frowned upon.

[NightWatcher]

16. He's going to put the Soviet Union back together unless the World stops him. WW3

Should be miserable for the entire World, like we haven't had a rough few years anywho.

[Mr.Bill]

18. It's a far different world, now.

Economies of countries are too interdependent. Russia can't afford being isolated.