General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRegarding the ECONOMICS of Griswold/Roe and Male Resentment...
Last edited Tue Feb 22, 2022, 08:55 PM - Edit history (1)
Ruth Bader Ginsberg went to Law school in an era where deans used to invite the young men students over for tea or dinner, as a way of socializing them, introducing them around, and so forth. Maybe they still do that at elite schools, where making connections is of paramount importance. But I doubt they still do this, as they did to RBG: Any woman who managed to make it past the huge barriers to be there in the first place would be asked, upon introduction to the group, to please explain why she felt justified in taking the place that belonged to a man..
As women gained personal control over their fertility and could choose when or if to have a child, they were increasingly able to move into education and job categories that men believed belonged to men.
And a great many men (not all, please understand) have resented it like hell. From pathetic incels to the dean of a prestigious law school, to the US Senate, that resentment has not gone away.
It affects the military, the civilian police and firefighters, all manner of well-paid blue collar skilled crafts. These are mens jobs; what makes a woman think she belongs here? Harassment remains, both subtle and blatant.
It affects choices for the SCOTUS right now. Its the misogyny in the Senate. As Shirley Chisholm once memorably said, she suffered worse from misogyny than from racism.
And if all else fails, there is always rape (see: US Military and Military Academies). Because rape is not about sex it is about control and domination. And what does rape do? It deposits the seed of the dominator into the body of the conquered. That is why it is and always has been a tool of war.
To return and to be 100% explicit: allowing women to control their own fertility allows them to impinge on economic and social territory some men believes is theirs by right. Just as if those women had a right.
Im better today. Ive regained my footing, and I am angry.
This is how it hit me yesterday
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216379304
Hekate
(90,829 posts)hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)Hekate
(90,829 posts)We cant give up
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)I remember life in the before times.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 22, 2022, 09:29 PM - Edit history (1)
Womens jobs one one side of the page. Mens jobs on the other.
I mentioned the 3 Michigan AG candidates who want to overturn Griswold in my Women's History class today. I teach mostly retired adults. They were as aghast as we are.
ShazzieB
(16,539 posts)...there were four categories:
HELP WANTED - Male - White
HELP WANTED - Female - White
HELP WANTED - Male - Colored
HELP WANTED - Female - Colored
It was oh, SO clear, which jobs were meant for whom!
moniss
(4,274 posts)correct. An additional aspect to lack of reproductive freedom is that it exposes women to increased sexual harassment in the workplace. Once again I go back to history as it was. After WW2 companies realized that they could have women as a cheaper source of labor. Women were finally able to have a life outside the home and bring in some much needed money. But we have to remember that the times were not financially great for most non-union workers. Unscrupulous male supervisors would take advantage of a woman needing to keep a job.
I remember one particular factory in a small town that made tuners for TV sets. This work was all by hand with women sitting about arm's length from each other on an assembly line. Because it was a small town most everybody knew each other and basically how things were going for them. The supervisor knew too and usually right between Thanksgiving and Christmas he would "walk the line" behind the women as they worked. Then he would pick out one woman he knew was enduring financial struggles at home and he would stop behind her as she worked. He would put his hands on her shoulders and start to ask her how things were going. Then he would start to talk about Christmas coming and how kids always get disappointed when the gifts are lacking. He would say the woman's name and then ask her if she would come to his office to talk about "giving her some overtime". The women hated this man with a hot passion but if you refused you got fired. This went on for years. It was one of the few employers in that town and women were placed in this horrible degrading situation. Even if women had complained back then there were no laws or regulations to stop this behavior and the women didn't dare tell their husbands because if they got angry and confronted this guy they would lose their job and in a small town everybody would know about it and you would be "unemployable".
At least today these things are challenged more because we have fought for laws etc. and courts have become more enlightened although it all is still far from perfect. A woman will still find herself discriminated against in employment opportunities if she has made a harassment complaint even if it never went to court. So many times women have been prey for men because they know the woman needs that money for her children. Reproductive freedom means a woman can delay having children if she chooses and build up money, career etc. until she feels financially secure enough to have children. Although sexual harassment will still take place she can at least reduce the "extortion" aspect tactic successfully used by bad males due to her having children in need and limited income.
Scrivener7
(51,021 posts)own lives. Because it wasn't all that golden in terms of achieving freedom from harassment and abuse, achieving equity in pay and job availability. But I have always taken comfort from the fact that things have inched forward throughout my lifetime.
Until now. I am chilled to the bone by this.
And you know what? I was MILES better at that job than the mediocre men I am supposed to have displaced.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)it was about sex. Evangelicals want sex to have consequences for the fallen women who engage in it. If you're married, well, you're safe from societal censure when you get pregnant from having sex. It's even part of the plan. However, when (not if, in this birth control free, abortionless ideal world) you get pregnant and you aren't married, you will pay the consequences for all the world to see. Of course, this thinking is dated, but they don't know that.
A significant percentage of men on all socioeconomic levels don't give two craps about birth control. Somebody else has the baby, somebody else raises the baby. If they have enough money they might get hit up to pay something for the baby, but ultimately they can jet if they don't like the way things are working out. And I'm talking about the population here, not individuals. There are many decent men out there.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)Whether or not as an individual you suffered from it, the threat was all around.
This is how it hit me yesterday. Long thread, lots of good replies.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216379304
niyad
(113,581 posts)Women's Rights And Issues? You are, of course, quite correct. When I was at IWY, some jackass reporter (male, so surprising, yes?) actually asked me how DARE women take jobs away from men. There really was not VERY much blood, honest!
Hekate
(90,829 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,819 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)That you have to use this disclaimer, even here, proves to me the truth of what you say. I understand why it has to be in there though... I've seen the reaction here when it is not used when talk of any facet of misogyny is brought up.
Mr.Bill
(24,330 posts)paid less than ten dollars an hour. I had not met her yet, but I was making more than that running printing presses with only a high school education. When my wife retired 12 years ago, things had changed. She was making over $60 an hour.
She believes it's no coincidence that the good pay for nurses coincided with more men entering the profession.
niyad
(113,581 posts)wnylib
(21,615 posts)by men about any woman who sought responsible jobs with decent pay. "What she needs is a good f--k."
Hekate
(90,829 posts)She must be a dyke.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Lithos
(26,404 posts)To return and to be 100% explicit: allowing women to control their own fertility allows them to impinge on economic and social territory some men believes is theirs by right. Just as if those women had a right.
This is part of it - the other part is it is easier to impose wage slavery on people if they are burdened down with mouths to feed. But this is yet another economic projection.
Bouncing up against the increase in automation (robots, AI/ML) and productivity, this generational increase is going to create a huge pressure to downgrade wages even for the educated (which will be fewer and fewer).
But then again, the policies of the GQP are to kill off the poor and the old - so maybe it's just Soylent Green.
canetoad
(17,192 posts)Do you think it's too big a statement to say, "War exists so men can rape"? I believe this to be true albeit sometimes in an indirect way.
From the myth of Eve being the temptress who led to Adam's and therefore 'mankind's' downfall, to the burning of so-called witches throughout the centuries, women have suffered for men's impotence and inability to singlehandedly perpetuate the species.
Random thought: If the dynamic of a harem were reversed and 100 women *had a man, instead of the opposite situation, this would represent a much more sensible way to reproduce and would probably ensure the survival of homo sapiens. All you have to do is flip the 'ownership' angle around.
Love you Hekate.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)MineralMan
(146,333 posts)I remember those times, too. We do not want to return to them. I do not want society to return to them. They were not good times.