Putin declares war.

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
Putin remarks being aired right now:

Dmitri Alperovitch
@DAlperovitch
Replying to @DAlperovitch
Putin: 'We decided to launch a special military action'
7:51 PM · Feb 23, 2022

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

David Rothkopf
@djrothkopf
Understand what we're dealing with here.

Paul Sonne
@PaulSonne
Putin demands that Ukrainians put down their weapons and go home, saying Russia will "demilitarize and denazify" Ukraine.
7:57 PM · Feb 23, 2022

[SheltieLover]

1. Damn him!

[H2O Man]

64. Putin is the thug

that Trump wishes he was.

[SheltieLover]

73. Absolutely!

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[uponit7771]

3. Putin sounds like a complete idiot

[Nevilledog]

4. More

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

Travis Akers
@travisakers
There is significant Russian strategic bomber activity being observed on HF frequencies.

Air strikes are likely imminent into Ukraine.

Ukrainians, avoid any communications and media stations, major infrastructure like airports, bridges, and government buildings.
7:31 PM · Feb 23, 2022

[KewlKat]

5. Putin excuse is to protect Donbas...

[BootinUp]

6. This will not end well for Putin

it may take a while though.

[Bettie]

11. How will it not end will for him

no one will stop him.

It will go the same way as every other time, he'll get away with it and see no real consequences, then he'll do it again and again and no one will do anything to stop him, wash, rinse, repeat.

[Dirty Heads]

16. Ridiculous.

Have you been paying attention? It's going to result in economic catastrophe for Russia. The EU is likely to break free of Russian gas, crippling the country even more. This is going to be a complete economic disaster for him and his country.

[Bettie]

29. Like the last round of sanctions did?

Oh, wait, he's richer than before and he gets to take another country. Now with portable crematoria to avoid those messy mass graves.

[Dirty Heads]

30. Nothing we did during the last round compares to this...

And it certainly wasn't near the united front we're seeing right now.

[stopdiggin]

42. His COUNTRY is not richer than before

and will pay a nasty price. And, despite the fact that the leadership there has been buttressing and building 'hedges' hoping to weather a certain amount of sanctions - Russia's economy is actually quite skimpy and relatively fragile compared to a lot of the developed world. You can also add in the fact that Putin has just squandered any sort of international weight or standing that he has so coveted and cherished during the course of his leadership. And that too is of utmost importance to both Putin and the Russian people.

The Ukrainians are going to pay a steep price - but it is virtually certain that Putin and Russia are going to as well.

[Bettie]

44. He doesn't care if the country suffers

he'll be rich and he'll have power, plus the pleasure (and yes, I do believe he gets pleasure from seeing people die) of knowing that many will die by his order.

Will he pay a price? So far he has been able to do whatever he wants with practically no consequences. Apparently, there is no possiblity of consequences for evil, rich white men.

[hamsterjill]

31. Oh bullshit.

Putin is laughing at the sanctions. What part of the fact that he’s a madman don’t you get? Sanctions are not going to deter him.

[Dirty Heads]

32. lol

Okay, hamsterjill, the definitive source in geopolitical conflict.

[hamsterjill]

35. It doesn't take a genius to see that a crazy ass dictator

Isn’t going to think rationally and worry about economic ruin.

[Dirty Heads]

40. Well then I guess Biden should resign and appoint you president.

Because he clearly doesn't know what the hell he's doing, right with these sanctions and show of force through NATO.

Quick, call the White House. They need your expertise!

[LakeArenal]

49. Be sure to check profiles. I always do when folks get snarky.

[hamsterjill]

52. Good advice.

Interesting…

[gldstwmn]

70. He should ask Saddam Hussein or or Qadaffi how that

worked out for them.

[stopdiggin]

54. and that has ALWAYS been the case

and has been readily acknowledged (at regular intervals) by Biden and everyone else in the alliance all along this road. Unfortunately that is the only option the international community felt was viable. We may not be able to stop the madman - but we can be certain that everyone understands there will be a price extracted. But, like I said - virtually none of this is new, or news - so why the fevered frothing this evening?

[hamsterjill]

55. Maybe because people are dying?

That tends to make me “froth” a bit? Any objection to that?

[stopdiggin]

69. what I don't quite get

is the utter surprise. When in reality it is the farthest thing from.

(and perhaps the ridicule heaped on sanctions and a united European front as useless and ineffectual, almost the equivalent of nothing - with the strong implication that 'more needs to be done' - without quite spelling out what that 'more' might be. please tell us what you think Biden and the allies should have done - and failed to?)

[hamsterjill]

71. Well tell me how the sanctions are going to work.

You tell me. Do you honestly believe that the sanctions are going to stop Putin? Because the threat of those sanctions sure didn’t stop him tonight, did they? So, please - spell it all out for me. How is this going to be dealt with economically?

There is no surprise to anything here on my part. Putin has made his intentions quite clear over the last weeks in plain view for the world to see. He’s not going to stop until he is stopped. And you think sanctions are going to do that??!

Sorry. I disagree.

[stopdiggin]

76. I did not SAY the sanctions were going to WORK

to reverse Putin's course. (and neither did Biden, or anyone else - which is kind of the point I'm trying to make). You seem to be laboring under the illusion that there was some way that Putin can be, or could have been, stopped. How was this to be accomplished? Are you honestly suggesting a U.S. military action here?

What I AM saying, is that the sanctions are going to most certainly extract a price. (and that is all anyone every claimed they were going to do)

[manicdem]

45. Putins laughing at us

He knows the sanctions are minor and temporary. He knew what everyone was going to do and accepted the consequences for invasion. Russia wont have trouble finding someone to buy their stuff...China and other eastern nations. Putin's a genius after being in the KGB for so long.

5 years from now, he'll do the same thing to another country.

[Dirty Heads]

46. lol I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Trump said tonight.

Congrats - you've just parroted Trump right down to calling Putin a genius and mocking the idea of sanctions - two things he's done in the last 24 hours.

[LakeArenal]

51. Did you join DU to snark on people?

[Dirty Heads]

56. I'll snark on people who align themselves with Trump on this conflict.

We're sitting at a point where NO ONE knows what is going to happen and yet we've got armchair generals in here pointing out things that haven't even happened yet. It's the same campaign used by the right to paint Biden as weak.

But if someone finds their words sounding awfully similar to Trump's right now, as that poster's were, then maybe they need to reevaluate what they're saying.

Trump in the last 24 hours has mocked the sanctions and called Putin a genius - just as that poster did.

That's all I'm sayin'...

[LakeArenal]

59. It's seems usual that someone no one ever heard of to come on with 22 posts

And post a bunch of snark about other people’s opinions. I happen to know the DUers you say align with Putin. We don’t know you.

[Dirty Heads]

61. Is it normal for people to align with Trump here?

BTW, I didn't say align with Putin - I said Trump.

Trump was the one who called Putin a genius. Trump was the one who laughed at the sanctions the DEMOCRATIC president has advocated for.

Sounds to me like the person agrees with Trump. How am I the bad guy for pointing that out?

[LakeArenal]

62. As I said, we know each other. We have discussed issues together.

[Dirty Heads]

63. That's cool. It doesn't change what they said.

They literally called Putin a genius - same as Trump.

They literally laughed off the sanctions our Democratic president is pushing for - same as Trump.

So, is Trump right - and is Biden wrong?

[LakeArenal]

65. It's an opinion. You don't agree. That is your opinion.

[Dirty Heads]

66. And nothing I said discounts that.

I just pointed out that poster's opinion is the same as Trump's.

I guess I just expected Democrats to support the Democratic president and not parrot the exact same language the former fascist has used tonight attacking Biden.

If the poster wants to align with Trump, thinks Trump is right and Biden is wrong - that's fine. I never said they couldn't. You're right. That is their opinion. I am just pointing out their opinion is shared by Trump. Definitely not a partner I'd like to be associated with right now.

But to each their own.

Have a good one!

[LakeArenal]

67. We do. Or we would not have been here for years.

Enjoy your stay.

[stopdiggin]

77. the number of posts attributed has zip to do

with whether a post is reasonable or sound. (are we going to do schoolyard taunts next?) Find another basis on which to put down a post - like maybe it's content.

(in this case the poster brought up a pretty legitimate point - we're all OK with plaudits for Putin these days? kind of deserved a response, right?)

[LakeArenal]

80. Number of posts do have meaning. This about being snarky at people one disagrees with.

This is a discussion board not telling people they don’t know what they are talking about.
Few here are geopolitical experts. We give opinions
No need for snark.

[stopdiggin]

82. this board (like many others) is littered

with differences of opinion and, concurrently, more than just a few putdowns regarding the same. What you seem to be interested in is some sort of hierarchy in which newbies ought to be modest and show proper deference to their elders (and supposedly betters). That's a bunch of baloney (to be polite about it). And I'm calling you on it. You want to lecture on snark, you go ahead and lecture the community - not just the newcomers.

Have a nice day! ----- -----

[LakeArenal]

83. Snark reply. It's not unusual for this trend. We have seen it quite recently. And yes

Someone
Will call you on it. Enjoy your stay.

[manicdem]

74. Damn your right

Just saw the articles about what Trump said.

But hes right. Putin is an evil genius and was able to pull it off so far. Face sanctions vs conquering a country? Conquering a country is worth more.

[Dirty Heads]

75. It's not going to end at sanctions.

That will be a big part of it - but this is too far for sanctions. The US knows if Ukraine falls, Russia will continue advancing on the Baltic states and when that happens, we will have no choice but to engage in war since we're bound by treaties.

But I think it'll deescalate before that. Unfortunately, it probably ends with Ukraine ceding the Donbas region.

[SoCalDavidS]

17. Kind Of Like Here In America

NO ACCOUNTABILITY leads to further disaster.

[Bettie]

28. That's what I think too

maybe I'm just tired of rich white men never being held to account for anything.

[hamsterjill]

33. Aren't we all!

Why is it that individuals and countries all of a sudden just sit back and let these things happen? Trump and Putin are mortal men. Why can’t they be stopped?

[Bettie]

34. I just feel sick

So many are going to die for one man's ego.

[hamsterjill]

37. Me too.

And sad. Very, very sad

[Hortensis]

78. All our lives things around us have created reactions; not equal and opposite,

sometimes far greater or less, but change always causes more change. All our lives it's been normal for trends and actions to go too far and generate bigger consequences and counteractions that diminish or often end them.

So it's extremely unrealistic to assume Putin's actions are almost the only straight line on the planet, in your description just getting worse and worse, that will just keep going. Btw, NATO was created to make sure that couldn't happen to those nations -- big reaction comes immediately if one of those are attacked, and a lot of the nations Putin wants to reconquer are in NATO. For good reason.

[gab13by13]

7. Sad, the sermon last Sunday was about loving your enemy.

Fuck Putin.

[yaesu]

8. Russian forces will carry out 'special military operation' in Ukraine, says Putin Vladimir Putin has

announced that Russia will carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine, Reuters reports.

[lapucelle]

9. No news source is reporting a declaration of war. N/T

[Nevilledog]

10. I stand by it.

[johnp3907]

13. Does anyone actually declare war anymore?

Anyway, the Gaurdian put this up around 10:00 EST:

“ Vladimir Putin has announced that Russia will carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine, Reuters reports.

In an address to the Russian people under way now and coinciding with the United nations security council meeting, the Russian president also said:
clashes between Ukrainian and Russian forces are “inevitable” and “only a question of time”.
Further nato expansion and its use of Ukraine’s territory are unacceptable
the Russian military operation aims to “protect people””

[Dirty Heads]

21. No.

The US hasn't declared war as a country since World War II and we've certainly fought plenty of wars since then (including Korea, Vietnam, the First Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq).

[johnp3907]

23. Right.

I don’t think there’s much point in getting caught up in semantics.

[Dirty Heads]

24. Not anymore anyway.

Everything we do is a military operation exactly as Russia is doing now. This is 100% Russia starting a war with Ukraine.

[Nevilledog]

14. ...

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[Nevilledog]

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[Nevilledog]

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[Nevilledog]

22. ...

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[lapucelle]

43. Your headline announced "Putin declaress war".

Putin didn't do that.

Accuracy matters about something this important, and it's (at best) ill-advised to use that specific term figuratively in a three word headline.

[Dirty Heads]

47. I'm glad to know the US has not fought a war since World War II.

Thank God. Now we can put the rest all this talk about the US being a warmongering nation.

[lapucelle]

48. Wait...what? What are you talking about?

Welcome to DU!

[Dirty Heads]

53. As a nation, we have not declared war since World War II.

Yet I'm pretty sure we've "declared" war multiple times - including in Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf, Afghanistan and, surprise, the Gulf II.

Never - not once - was any of that officially declared a war by the United States. It didn't make it any less a war, tho, right? Or, as I pointed out, the US then hasn't fought a war in 80 years.

[lapucelle]

79. Why are you claiming that the US hasn't fought a war since WW II?

Neither Putin nor Russia has declared a war, yet one has begun. That is not at issue.

What is at issue is the advisability of inaccurate, clickbait headlines. People are perfectly free to defend them or call them out, as they see fit.

[Dirty Heads]

81. Because it's not inaccurate.

The act in and of itself is the declaration. Getting caught up in the semantics is just silly - as silly as Russia claiming this isn't war.

[Nevilledog]

50. You can call it whatever you want to. I'm not the only person calling it war.

[lapucelle]

58. Everyone knows what's happening. Everyone also knows there was no declaration of war.

Your headline unequivocally stated that the formal act of a declaration had occurred.

It was very, very dramatic, but it was not accurate.

[Nevilledog]

57. ...

Link to tweet

Maybe it's based on perspective, eh?
I agree with the Ukrainian Ambassador.

[lapucelle]

60. That statement was made after your OP was posted. N/T

[Nevilledog]

68. That was just the cherry on top.

He declared war, notwithstanding using mealymouthed verbiage. I fully support you calling it whatever you want to.

[lapucelle]

72. The headline "Putin declares war" was very, very dramatic and very, very inaccurate.

It's understandable if a diplomat bends the meaning of the phrase to create drama and leverage the moment in defense of his country during an international security council meeting.

As a clickbait headline, not so much.

[NightWatcher]

12. Explosions in Kyiv on CNN live now

[elleng]

15. McFaul just said it, on MSNBC.

***Exactly The invasion of Poland, also known as the September campaign, 1939 defensive war and Poland campaign, was an attack on the Republic of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union which marked the beginning of World War II. Wikipedia parallel with WW II, Germany into Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland

[Mme. Defarge]

19. As the Church Lady used to say,

Isn’t that SPECIAL.

[dalton99a]

25. Yep. Fuck the Putin apologists

[VarryOn]

26. Putin needs killin'...

I doubt that's on the table, though.

He needs the Iranian General treatment.

[Takket]

27. this is a dark day. The sorrow to come will be immeasurable.

[dwayneb]

36. Prayers to the people in Ukraine

The Ukranians will fight to the bitter end it is their nature, but they have no chance against the Russian military.

It is the normal average everyday people, and the children that will suffer as always. First, the brutality and horro of this war, and then, going under the boot of a despot like Vladimir Putin.

[Totally Tunsie]

38. Hmmm...where else have we heard language phrased such as this?

It has such a familiar ring to it - like nothing I have ever heard before.

The question is "Who is copying who?"

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496682469143334927%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100216388417

[canetoad]

41. Fucking everlasting victimhood

Putin is just like Rittenhouse.