General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis isn't gonna just stop with Ukraine.
Putin is going to go after everything he can! He doesnt care about anyone or his own country. We may not get into a World War but it will come awfully close and we could see problems here in the states. Especially if Trump and his puppets spew their Putin rhetoric! Yes, I am worried what the outcome will be and we all should be too
empedocles
(15,751 posts)distributed widely, so 'the masses' everywhere can understand putin.
I anticipate a 'lightning invasion' ala adolph.
PortTack
(32,778 posts)JMHO he doesnt care. Hes lost his mind!
Blaukraut
(5,693 posts)And they're terrified if the make Putin too mad, he might use nukes. So NATO is waving its collective fist at Russia and not much else.
PSPS
(13,601 posts)Most NATO countries have been to this rodeo before and they would collectively hand Putin his ass. He knows this and won't likely attack any NATO country. More importantly, the oligarchs, whose support is the only reason Putin is in power, wouldn't allow it because it would jeopardize their wealth and privilege.
We should have followed Patton's advice 77 years ago.
PortTack
(32,778 posts)WarGamer
(12,452 posts)The Germans are the only decent people left in Europe. It's a choice between them and the Russians, I prefer the Germans. We may have been fighting the wrong enemy all along. But while we're here, we should go after the bastards now, 'cause we're gonna have to fight 'em eventually.
George S Patton
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Didnt work out that way.
PSPS
(13,601 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)But ymmv.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)this wouldn't be a guerrilla war like Vietnam was, this would be two armies confronting each other and NATO would hand Russia it's ass in a conventional war.
radius777
(3,635 posts)is to ramp up the arms race and heavily arm every NATO country as well as expanding the alliance. Combined with the sanctions it will cripple their economy and drop the Putin regime.
Russia is an oil/gas oligarchy with a big military - but is fairly weak economically otherwise.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)start taking a bite out of the real rulers of Russia, ie: the Oligarchs, there will be some serious doubts about Putin's ability to survive their wrath.
radius777
(3,635 posts)in the 90s, where Bill Clinton went around the UN to get around Russia.
In recent years, especially due to Trump, NATO was in disarray.
But this act of Russian aggression is historic - and has strongly united NATO - the most powerful military alliance in the history of the world.
NATO countries have a combined GDP of $42 trillion. Russia has a GDP of $2 trillion.
Basically this is the beginning of another Cold War and arms race where NATO will show Russia it has no chance - especially as the sanctions cripple their economy.
Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)Militarily nowadays.
PSPS
(13,601 posts)Putin knows that if he attacks a NATO country, that will be his end.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)You have no fucking clue what your fucking talking about.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)The combined military might of NATO literally dwarfs that of Russia.
Chuuku Davis
(565 posts)Not the equipment and manpower.
Germany and the USA specifically will hold NATO back.
Putin has lost his mind, reverting back to 1919.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)Maybe Moldova... But probably not for a while. I don't see him going anywhere else... What are you thinking?
He'll invade and threaten nukes and the west will back down.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)He would face all NATO nations, no chance and the nuke idea does not hold water in my book.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts).
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)And it sure looks to me that he has unified NATO... I guess you see it different
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Just like refusal to take away SWIFT isn't on Biden either.
It's about Europe.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)That would be a declaration of war and NATO is not at that point right now. I think it is silly to even think it should be.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)it's not wanted here.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Nothing defeatist about recognizing Europe might view Estonia just a wee bit differently than Germany or UK.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)take your defeatist bullshit elsewhere, Pres. Biden has unified NATO and they will fight if Putin decides to escalate and attack a NATO country, that has been made crystal clear to Putin, and the oligarchs will not allow Putin to launch any nukes, it would upset their many money making schemes.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)Don't have buttons and the threat alone will cause Europe to reconsider.
Has nothing to do with Biden.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)But he knows if he presses it he's dead before he sees if the missiles even hit.
So unless he's willing to commit suicide over Estonia then he's not going to push it.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)He sees it that way or he isn't willing.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)the Oligarchs, would allow him to order a nuclear strike.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)It's not like he's going to call them up before and say hey guys I'm gonna use nukes what do you think?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,399 posts)in his inner circle just watching him, unless Russia itself is invaded, hardly likely, then they will give Putin his 9 grams of lead.
Nuclear war is detrimental to their criminal activities that earn them billions of dollars and they don't want to see that interrupted.
radius777
(3,635 posts)and NATO will bring down the forces of hell upon Russia. Putin knows this and will never enter NATO territory - which Biden and Harris have said repeatedly that the US/NATO will defend every inch of.
Collective Defence - Article 5
The principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATOs founding treaty. It remains a unique and enduring principle that binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and setting a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance.
TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)Although I think the latter 2 might already be "client states" of Russia already.
I don't think he will try to challenge NATO itself in the near future. There are still a lot of non-NATO former Soviet Republics left to invade. Plus, if Putin can help get right-winger Russiqn sympathizers in-charge in France, Germany, or here in the U.S......
That would make the chance of success much better.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)How would he hold Georgia? He barely has enough troops to hold Ukraine.
TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)the city of Kiev has more people then all of Georgia.
PSPS
(13,601 posts)You are right that they are all puppet regimes the same as Ukraine will now become.
TomSlick
(11,100 posts)I'm thinking Putin means to restore the Soviet empire - either by annexation or the installation of puppet governments. He will not honor a country's border simply because they are members of NATO. The order of his planned attacks is known only to Putin but there is a plan.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)He is a dictator, but he does not have unlimited resources, he cannot win WW3.
marie999
(3,334 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)That is why he will not try to fight it.
TomSlick
(11,100 posts)President Biden and I are not convinced.
Like President Biden, I believe Putin is intent on restoring the boarders of the Soviet empire. I believe that Putin is unconvinced that the US and Germany will live up to its Article 5 obligations if he attacks the newer NATO members.
Given the RW adoration for Putin and the frequent LW aversion to war - all war, no matter the justification or necessity - Putin may be correct.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)TomSlick
(11,100 posts)However, Putin is a former KGB officer and current dictator. He will not gladly suffer dissent.
TomSlick
(11,100 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 24, 2022, 09:01 PM - Edit history (1)
WarGamer
(12,452 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)I'm still playing catch-up on relations of all the countries in that part of the world.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)JCMach1
(27,559 posts)Is the biggest chip at stake here
jalan48
(13,870 posts)Perhaps we are in the process of seeing a worldwide, geopolitical realignment.
bdamomma
(63,875 posts)Putin is signing his own death certificate, don't dick-tators usually get killed or take their lives.
Such a bastard, short man syndrome.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)country. It would be over in a matter of hours.
budkin
(6,703 posts)If anyone tries to stop him he will threaten them with nuclear weapons.
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)He will not annex the Baltic States; that ship has sailed as they're in NATO.
Finland will soon join NATO in response to this incursion.
Belarus is already practically annexed; Lukashenko effectively a puppet.
Molodva? Maybe. The Caucasus nations? Maybe.
I don't see the Central Asian Republics being annexed, as long as they don't really allow that awful Democracy.
It's really Ukraine that galls him. They're the Alexi Navalny of former Soviet Republics.
Quixote1818
(28,946 posts)Unless China gets somehow pulled into all this it will probably stop with Ukraine at least for a number of years.
Quixote1818
(28,946 posts)and most of them are much better armed than Ukraine.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)GoodRaisin
(8,924 posts)I think he is mainly trying to strike and secure Ukraine before it becomes NATO.