Random thoughts about Russia, Nazis and NATO.

[WarGamer]

Even today... the Russians play the "Nazi Card" constantly.

"You're a NAZI, he's a NAZI, they're ALL NAZIS!"

What's this all about?

Just so happens this is one of my interests.

May I direct you to one of my favorite books, "Between Giants: The Battle for the Baltics in World War II" by Prit Buttar

It lays down some history.

Let's start with today.

There is precisely ONE nation in the world with a State sanctioned memorial to SS soldiers and even a Holiday where they're remembered.

Estonia.

They celebrate "The Battle of the Tannenberg Line" also called the "Battle of the European SS". It was a battle in 1944 where the Soviet army rolled across the Estonia border through Narva and ran into a series of hills called Sinimaed that was bristling with SS Volunteers from Estonia, Netherlands, Norway and others...

Bottom line, several thousand SS soldiers bottled up 200,000 Russians for weeks, inflicting huge damages on the Russians.

Interesting FYI, the Allies trusted the Estonian SS soldiers o much that they made them the security detail for the Nuremberg Trials.

Fast forward to the post-USSR days and YUP Estonia recognizes the SS Volunteers and they even had a parade each year at least as of a few years ago.

This is emblematic of "Nazis" and Russians today.

Today, in Europe... NAZI affiliations are NOT a sign of any love for Hitler or the Holocaust or such thing, it's an anti-Russian thing. The AZOV Battalion in Ukraine? Anti-Russian, not pro-Hitler.

This infuriates Russia. Russia hates it when Estonia celebrates the "Heroes of Sinimaed".

So Putins "DeNazification" comment can be readily translated to mean "Anti-Russians".

This is a very complex topic and isn't as obvious as it first seems.

75 years later and Russia is STILL waking up at 3AM looking for the "NAZI" boogeyman hiding under their bed.

[underpants]

1. Wow. I had no idea.

I thought he was evoking memories of Russians to their massive losses in WWII (20-27M) at the hands at the Germans.

So anti-Russian troops were the security detail at Nuremberg? Again, no idea.

Thanks WarGamer. The things you learn on DU.

[WarGamer]

2. Here's a couple of them

Putin is certainly using the "Nazi boogeyman" to stir up support from the public.

But it'll be anti-Russians who end up dead or in prison.

[Wicked Blue]

4. Please see my comments below

Thanks

[Wicked Blue]

3. I beg to differ with some of what you posted. And this holiday you mention is nonexistent.

Here is a link to the holidays of Estonia. Where is there a holiday listed such as you describe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Estonia

I am the daughter of Estonian refugees. They were neither Nazis nor Communists. I have relatives in Estonia, and they are neither fascists nor pro-Russia.

According to the Holocaust Remembrance Project, Estonia "has financed the creation of many, many monuments at concentration camps and killing sites, and has four official commemorations for victims of the Holocaust.

The first is 27 January, International Holocaust Remembrance Day. The second is 23 August, the Day of Remembrance for the Victims of Totalitarian Regimes. The third is 5 September, the commemoration of the victims killed at the Kalevi-Liiva site. The fourth 19 September, the anniversary of the liquidation of the Klooga camp."

Also from the above source: "The history of the Holocaust was not taught during the Soviet time. It became part of the national curriculum shortly after Estonia regained independence in 1991.

Beginning in 1998, Estonia has sent a team of teachers to Yad Vashem seminars. In the current national curriculum adopted in 2011, the Holocaust is part of the topics of World War II and totalitarian regimes. The Holocaust is explicitly addressed in the ninth grade history syllabus. New and revised relevant textbooks including the topic of the Holocaust are published regularly."

My mother, and grandmother barely escaped being captured and deported to Siberia by the Russians, along with thousands of other Estonians. They managed to run out the back door of their landlord's house while the Soviets were breaking in at the front. My grandfather was out of town, got stuck behind and lived out his life behind the Iron Curtain, never seeing them again.

My father fled Estonia to escape the Nazis. They captured my aunt and grandfather and marched them and their neighbors off to live in the woods with nothing but the clothes on their backs, while the goddamned Germans lived in my grandfather's house and destroyed everything inside. My father and grandfather were socialists, neither Nazis or Communists.

Toward the end of WW2, somewhere in Germany, my father was captured by Nazis and was going to be executed by firing squad along with some other prisoners. They spent a night in terror, only to wake up and find that their captors had fled because the Allies were arriving in that area.

Estonians got stuck between Germany and Russia, and people had to decide which side they hated more.

The Russians ruled Estonia for a couple hundred years after taking them from Sweden. The Russians treated Estonians as slaves, buying and selling them as they pleased. I found records in the Estonian archives online noting the sale of a couple of my ancestors. It made the situation very personal for me. It never occurred to me that my own ancestors were slaves, who couldn't own land or property, and who weren't even allowed to have surnames.

The Estonian people and their land had been occupied and run by German "nobles" for centuries, although the country was owned at different times by Danes, Swedes, Poles and Russians. The Estonians were landless serfs and then slaves for a total 700 years or so. Since then, they've only been independent from around 1920 to 1940, and then from 1991 through today.

Some Estonians hated Russians more, and supported the Germans, or were conscripted into their military units. Some hated Germans more, and fought with the Russians. Most wanted only to be left alone and hang on to freedom, but that was impossible.

I have encountered some very fascist-type Estonian people, and they absolutely disgust me. Those assholes kicked me out of an Estonian community center in NYC in the early 1970s because I had the nerve to wear a jacket with anti-Vietnam War symbols. Most of them are dead now, and good riddance.

Russia loves to portray Estonia as a nation of Nazis. That is pure propaganda, and is untrue.

[WarGamer]

5. You and I don't disagree.

And I love your perspective.

Let me summarize.

Estonians didn't join the SS to be NAZIS!! They joined to fight Russians.

They had lived in a vise with Russia on one side and Germany on the other.

The holiday I speak of is Independence Day, that's when the SS veterans would march (when they were younger or still alive)

Don't get me wrong, I hold the Estonians in high regard and as I wrote... they were NOT Nazis.

I said Russia uses the "Nazi Card" to paint people as Nazis.

[Wicked Blue]

6. Estonia's Independence Day is today, Feb. 24

While there might have been some old SS veterans marching, and I don't doubt that there were, the holiday itself has absolutely NOTHING to do with the SS or Nazis. I got the impression from your post that Estonia has a holiday dedicated to the SS or something. That is untrue.

As I posted elsewhere on DU today, the holiday celebrates Estonia's declaration of independence from Russia in 1918, 104 years ago.

[WarGamer]

8. It's a holiday that featured some of the veterans.

No, there wasn't a National SS day.

BTW, I've been to Tallinn twice. Flew into Helsinki and took the ferry both times. Spent a weekend on Saaremaa, love the castle!!!

Wanted t visit Sinimaed but the drive was long and I heard bad things about that part of the country.

[Wicked Blue]

10. It was not and is not a holiday that "featured some of the veterans."

Some veterans participated, back when they were still alive, but so did marching bands and other groups. They were not the main feature or anything of the sort.

My personal experience of Estonian Independence Day is going a couple of times to commemorations at the former Estonian House in Baltimore and practically dying of boredom from long-winded speeches.

I've been to Estonia twice. Took the ferry from Helsinki the last time I went, 2010. Can't afford to go there again but wish I could see my only cousin one more time.

[icymist]

7. Or this shows that Putin is crazier than a sht house rat.

[WarGamer]

9. +1000 nt