Can you see a reason to enter the war in Ukraine?

[Stinky The Clown]

The question is asked with a neutral stance on the issue. But I must say I am torn. As I watch refugees moving and civilians being killed a part of me wants to lend *any* support that will help, including a war footing from our side.

This is as much an emotional as moral issue. Emotionally, I want to wipe out Russian leadership. Morally, war over this is wrong.

Then there are the consequences of getting directly involved. Escalation is VERY easy to imagine.

What are your thoughts?

[milestogo]

1. You mean, for the US to enter the war in Ukraine?

[underpants]

3. No

[msongs]

4. as in declare war on russia and start wrecking russian hardware and killing soliders...nt

[gab13by13]

5. No.

[spanone]

6. Well, that could be a nuclear war that no one wins.

[PoliticAverse]

7. The only good long term solution to the war comes from the Russian side.

Putin needs to be replaced, otherwise the crisis could drag on for years.

[Hoyt]

8. Other than Korea, Vietnam and Iraq we have usually avoided major intervention in foreign wars

since WWII.

I think it's good precedent. Although if Putin gets too aggressive, we might have to send in troops.

[Karadeniz]

9. Appeasement doesn't work with insane megalomanics.

[abqtommy]

22. +100 Well said. nt

[Lancero]

24. Pity that so many are hoping to appease Putin by leaving Russian energy exports unsanctioned.

Peace in our time, gas in our cars.

[NightWatcher]

10. We (USA) cannot get in yet, but when I heard that they were welcoming international volunteers...

I wished I were younger, before I had my family. In my 20's I was familiar with defense intelligence and would be chomping at the bit to aid them in the defense of their homes. I'm no macho type but I do know how to scrap and fight.

I also would hope that whenever putty is beaten back that they keep marching to Red Square and destroy the whole damn apparatus. The people would prosper under a free Russia. Lets help them help themselves.


I'm hot right now and must watch what I say.

[Mariana]

52. I heard that they were welcoming international volunteers...

For anyone who is interested, here's the contact information for the Ukrainian Embassy in the US.

https://www.embassypages.com/ukraine-embassy-washingtondc-unitedstates

[XanaDUer2]

11. No nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Not unless Russia attacks a NATO member

anything that would lead to escalation should be avoided at all costs. Giving Ukraine the materiel and intelligence support to fight more effectively? Sure. Committing troops? If we get to that point then WWIII is on the table.

[tritsofme]

13. I live near Chicago, and like that it exists. So that would be a hard no from me.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Realistically we can't without triggering WWIII and nuclear Armageddon.

We should be doing everything short of direct military engagement though.

[Nevilledog]

15. I'm all for letting Special Ops voluntarily getting a leave of absence & a plane ticket

[Silent3]

16. If it weren't for the possible horror of nuclear escalation, yes

Unlike many wars the US has gotten itself into, with the Ukrainians we would definitely be helping people who want and appreciate our help.

Once we had helped rid them of the Russians, they already have their own government -- no sinkhole of nation building to worry about.

The morality of who's in the right and who's in the wrong isn't complicated here, that's for sure. And helping Ukraine is good for our strategic interests as well.

It's the nukes that complicate the issue most.

[lpbk2713]

17. I never did care for bullies.

And although Putin's invasion is on a large scale I can still see a comparison.
I think we are on the right path. Make the Russian people decide he is not
good for their country and let them remove him one way or another.

[Thomas Hurt]

18. Only if Putin attacks a NATO member.

[Igel]

33. Not actually true.

We attacked Iraq. Iraq didn't attack a NATO member.

Just because the US gets involved doesn't obligate the UK or France.

We could get involved without anybody else caring. Of course, that voids the NATO requirement for solidarity if we're attacked.

[Wounded Bear]

38. Which is why Europe didn't really help much in the 2d Iraq war...nt

[pandr32]

19. My thoughts are to support Ukraine

There really is no wriggle room. We stand firmly with our friends and do all we can.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. No.

The worst thing is Putin is cornered and knows he's toast if he doesn't win the war. I mean war crimes toast. So he has nothing to lose. So I only see 5 possible outcomes. Negotiated peace, toppling the Russian government, defeating Russia, nuclear exchange, conquered Ukraine. How do you negotiate with a dictator? How do you topple the government? What would an occupied Ukraine look like as a Russian satellite? Seems to me most of our marbles are on toppling the government with sanctions/a long drawn out war. All the other outcomes are unlikely or very unsatisfactory. Cornered, what will Putin do? You see why this is so dangerous.

[orwell]

21. We are in World War III right now...

...it is about time the west realizes it. This is Poland in 1939 and Drumpf was effectively Neville Chamberlain.

While we can not yet put boots on the ground in Ukraine as we have no treaty or defense pact to authorize it, we must be aware of the stakes involved.

We have Hitler, with nuclear weapons, who is capable of using them. It is unthinkable but this is where we are.

Putin got here because we have appeased him. That has to stop.

We have to build a global coalition to completely isolate him, militarily, financially, and politically. Russian ambassadors and those of client states need to leave. We need to pull our embassy staff. Move forward as if war has been declared because it has.

It is time we listen to what this madman says and act accordingly. This is no time for appeasement, only global isolation. And we need to be prepared to keep up this fight for as long as Russia continues to threaten the rest of us with annihilation.

I agree with Fiona Hill...

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

[JoanofArgh]

26. This is a good post. Thanks!

[Calculating]

28. Basically Russia needs to be the new North Korea

Despised by all decent nations

[orwell]

34. Well...

...Vlad has been putting on some weight...so...

Kim Jong...Is that you?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

29. Agree

If he attacks a NATO nation and we go to war to defend our ally there is no guarantee pooty won't use the nukes as the NATO forces close in on the kremlin.

[JoanofArgh]

23. I feel like you do. Logically, I understand why we're not getting involved but

emotionally , I actually feel guilty Ukraine is fighting alone and that all these countries are just watching as Ukrainians get bombed and killed. We've entered and started conflicts for some stupid ass reasons and here are a people fighting for their democracy. It's complicated. I think the best thing that could happen is for somebody around Putin to get rid of him. Maybe an oligarch will hire an assassin or something.

I 'm fed up with Putin manipulating and holding the West hostage with his threats. They haven't admitted Ukraine to NATO or the EU because it might make Putin mad. Well, fuck that. I am pleased with the strong actions they're taking sanction-wise. I just don't think that will stop him. Hope I'm wrong. The whole situation is disturbing and sad.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. "I actually feel guilty Ukraine is fighting alone"

im right there with you!

[nycbos]

25. Maybe wth air or sea power.

Right now China's trying to control the entire South Pacific and are bullying are allies to accept they're ridiculous territorial claims.

Sending a message to Beijing that that is unacceptable might be worth it.

[former9thward]

47. We can't beat China in an Asian war.

They know it and we know it.

[nycbos]

48. We have the our fleet in Japan...

... and our troops in the ROK. We just made a submarine deali with Australia.

If we work with other Asian countries who don't want China to control whole ocean then maybe they are territorial ambitions.


I never said it's just us against China. It's a message to our allies in the Pacific buy a show of strength standing with Ukraine we will have their backs if China push too hard.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

27. Yes, I can definitely see reasons to enter the war.

I can also see reasons to not enter the war.

As you say, it's complicated. I don't know what to do.

[sarisataka]

31. Yes,

But I see more reasons to stay out

[ecstatic]

32. One TARGETED strike only

Take out the madman. No need to spend billions on another war. Enough.

[Santeria]

35. There's a few reasons beyond Putin invading NATO.

The hard nos in this thread are fooling themselves. War doesn't just start and end with Putin attacking a NATO country.

If he uses precision nukes in Ukraine, we absolutely will retaliate and draw us in even if the attack is not on a NATO country.

I also think completely firebombing Kyiv could result in the US entering.

[TomSlick]

36. Putin's goal is to reestablish the Soviet empire.

If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will move on to NATO countries. If Putin invades a NATO country, Article 5 of the NATO Treaty will require the US to defend that country.

The only hope of avoiding war with Russia is Ukraine stopping the Russians.

[Wounded Bear]

37. Not one that offsets the risk of Defcon 4 or worse...nt

[Hekate]

39. Cyber warfare. Drones. Supplies. See how many NATO members send soldiers & tanks...

It looks like Europe is stepping up to very pragmatically defend itself. It looks like nearly the whole planet is telling Putin to defenestrate himself. America is not the only nation with a dog in this fight. There are things Biden is doing, has been doing, and beyond that I do not know.


🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻

[roamer65]

40. The use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

[Happy Hoosier]

41. Yes. But there are other steps first.

I think we should supply the Ukrainians with all the wat gear they need…. Missiles, small arms, and drones.

But if Putin is wantonly levelling cities? I would have a hard time just watching that. I have a friend in Kyiv and an old friend and his sons have gone over to volunteer.

[apnu]

42. Did Ukraine ask us to join the fight?

Seriously, we should not consider fighting there unless they ask us first. Any other discussion is American arrogance.

We are helping all we can, short of triggering a major war with Russia. We are sending tech, gear, money, and logistics to Ukraine.

We are piling in to NATO states that surround Russia.

In the lead up to the Invasion, Biden both built a coalition to prepare for this, he also clearly shared intel with Ukraine, no doubt other states have as well (Turkey clearly has)

We are doing a ton, while also hanging back and giving our allies a shot as well. This has been a team effort.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. He did. He asked us to enforce a no fly zone over his nation..

That's not to say it's a good or bad idea.

[Wingus Dingus]

43. No, I don't see a reason, unless a NATO nation is attacked.

It's hard to watch, but we can't rescue them. Just have to hope all the aid and weapons are enough.

[UTUSN]

45. Who is "entering"? - although in some catastrophic future we will regret *not*.

[AntiFascist]

46. Reasons?

1. Putin is a threat to democracy. He has already infiltrated and affected the US with disinformation campaigns that brought us Trump and Jan. 6th.

2. If he succeeds it will set an example for China to do the same thing to Taiwan. Other autocracies may also feel emboldened.

3. By occupying Ukraine, he is that much more of a threat to western democracies comprising NATO, and that could ultimately trigger WW3.

The problem is the bottom line: are we willing to pay the costs?

[BGBD]

49. I could see immediate reason currently

to enter Ukraine and form a blockade of Lviv.

Right now there doesn't appear to be heavy fighting there, if any, and we can observe civilians being targetted in other places. I think we could enter western Ukraine to defend that city from attack, and still claim we aren't entering combat. There is a legitimate refuge crisis taking shape in western Ukraine. They need fuel and food and the citizens of Lviv need protection before shell starts there, especially with troops massed in Belarus.

Russia, could not claim that forces were there in an offensive position and I don't believe they would have the nerve to fire near NATO troops on a humanitarian mission. Either because of the fear of escalating for no good reason OR because of the AC-130 gunships with FA-18 and F-22 support ready to rain death on them if they did.

[Darwins_Retriever]

50. There would have to be very strict rules of engagement

To begin with there has been talk of closing the Ukraine airspace. They should, then US and some EU partners can "police" the skies above Ukraine. Do not cross boarders. Do not fire across boarders unless fired upon. Do not provide ground support. The air forces may fire on ground-based antiaircraft sites within the Ukraine boarders.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. Expeditors International was hit with a major cyber attack last week

Huge Freight Forwarder and Broker with global reach - they also provide a software system used by Brokers, Customers, etc. etc. The impact has been intense.


If its found that Russia did it - we need a hard hit back at the cyber level.

That instance and response -

Or if they directly attack a member of NATO.