General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMaybe I've read and watched too much about the rise of Hitler
and how the world would allow/do anything for peace, but peace was never his intention. Every time he was appeased (allowed a concession either by negotiation or force) he just became more emboldened.
I cannot help but see the parallels of todays situation after what I have read and watched about Hitlers rise.
Putin has told us what he wants and he has threatened nuclear weapons to get it. He has stated he wants all lands prior to the break up of the Soviet Union that his own country allowed and negotiated before he was in power.
In my mind we cannot be cowed by this. We must face it head on.
I am in no way a war hawk. I was 100% against the invasion of Iraq. I was for getting Osama in Afghanistan to a point. I would have been for doing something to the Saudis, since that is where most of the hijackers came from.
If Putins illegal invasion is allowed to happen even if protracted, he will have plunged a dagger into democracy. No matter what kind of intelligence weapons or training we give or sanctions imposed. Are we ok with just letting Ukrainians be slaughtered for ten years and kick this can down the road, hoping they can out last Putin? Seems to me like many here have resigned themselves to that. Anything to avoid a direct confrontation with Putin.
I dont agree with it. I am for letting it go for a while, but if hundreds of thousand of Ukrainians are being killed or Putin installs a new pro kremlin govt in Ukraine, I am not sure how we can say how much freedom and democracy mean to us when we couldnt lend a fighting hand to those begging for it and wanting to be like us. We wont be looking that great anymore. A Democracy, a super power allowing an illegal invasion at the doorstep our our allys.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,410 posts)My guess is that they are waiting for the right moment to do the same with the 40 mile convoy in the north.
That huge convoy in the north is having problems with mobility. If they are still, they are sitting ducks. UKR is getting the best intelligence from western allies. They are not weak. They are waiting for the right moment. And if I had any military strategy training, I'd venture a guess that UKR is waiting for Russia's supply lines to extend a good distance into Ukraine before they hit them. And they will. That huge convoy needs fuel, and a lot of it, to keep going. Those large vehicles are gas guzzlers. Cut off their supply, and they become road ornaments.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)wnylib
(21,146 posts)I am familiar with Hitler's rise to power, the appeasement, etc. I totally agree that appeasement is a mistake. But we are not appeasing Putin, so the analogy ends where appeasement begins.
The entire world is uniting against Putin. We are aiding Ukraine with arms, money, humanitarian aid, and Intel. We are cutting Russia out of the world markets. Russia cannot pay its soldiers with worthless rubles and has no access to alternate money. Russian soldiers are surrendering. Putin's supplies to the military are running out.
There is more than one way to bring Russia and Putin to their knees without escalating to a full blown world war.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)How about you?
wnylib
(21,146 posts)like the rest of us, over the Russian attack on Ukraine, and want a reason to take direct action against Russia? If so, that would be understandable. But cool headed calculations produce more winning strategies than emotional reactions do.
The goal is to end Russia's ability to wage wars on its neighbors. I support anything that is necessary to that end. Right now, I see no necessity to escalate to world war, with or without nukes. A direct action by the US alone or with NATO and/or the EU, like shooting down Russian planes over Ukraine, or bombing the Russian military in Ukraine, or bombing Russia itself, would instantly escalate and spread the war to more nations and more killing and destruction.
If Russia makes a move on the Baltic nations, we would without a doubt fight back directly because they are NATO members. That is why the US and Europe have moved so much military equipment to the nations around Ukraine.
There are many armchair generals who want to decide how to handle the current situation, but they do not have the Intel reports that Biden and our allies have. They do not have direct contact with world leaders. They do not have the CIA, FBI profilers, psy ops and other resources at hand to devoo strategies. They have anger, frustration, and fear to vent.
I am curious what lines you have in mind.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)Stop with the insults please.
And for the rest of your post I suggest you actually read, in entirety, my original post yand my responses to you.
marked50
(1,350 posts)Elessar Zappa
(13,649 posts)well get directly involved is if Putin attacks a NATO country. All aid to Ukraine will be in the form of weapons, money, intelligence, etc.
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)MOMFUDSKI
(5,195 posts)stop this crap NOW. putin will take full advantage of the rest of the world playing by a bullshit set of rules.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)It amazes me that this history seems to be playing out once again. I am even more disheartened when I think about the millions who voted for and still support the likes of Donald Trump. Even now
Bettie
(15,998 posts)and we seem to be going down that path.
FakeNoose
(32,340 posts)I believe Pootie thinks he's Hitler, or maybe a Hitler wannabe.
We have no evidence that anyone else in Russia believes this. All we have are Pootie's words and his behavior. He's definitely off the deep end.
If there is such a thing as reincarnation, there's no evidence - none - that Putin is Hitler reincarnated. I believe Hitler is in HELL for all time, so how could he be reincarnated? Not possible. But on the other hand, Putin may be crazy, and there's a distinct possibility that he is. So my point is that any true parallels between him and Hitler may exist only in his mind. BUT he controls the nuclear warheads and he can start World War III. So we all need to take this very seriously.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)And if he does it, some of us will live some of us will live. Some of,us,wont. But,we,cant live in a world where he threatens and gets his way.
FakeNoose
(32,340 posts)It cannot continue.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)Rather than later.
Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)and handled it far better than Chamberlain and Deladier did in Munich. They signed away Czechoslovakia to Hitler. We have faced up to Putin and are fighting back, at least economically and politically if not militarily.
While we can't "go in" to Ukraine militarily without risking WWIII, we have adopted measures that should punish Russia severely and have supported Ukraine with weapons and supplies to fight back.
So far, we've held our own.
Slava Ukraini!