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LuckyCharms

(17,425 posts)
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:16 PM Mar 2022

Posting this for discussion. Re: Putin

I'm one of those people who believe that Putin has lost his shit. He does not look good physically, and his actions are those of a madman.

That being said, there is a "non-zero risk" that his actions will lead to further actions that may fuck the entire world.

The reason I am posting the following is to get some opinions, because I am truly not nearly smart enough to come up with a solution that would meet the following:

1) Have Russia declare a cease fire, and permanently remove their army from Ukraine.

2) Some plan, some way, some negotiation...that would allow Putin to back off while saving face at the same time...WITHOUT appeasing him.

He may take Ukraine, but he won't be able to hold the country. If he at least has some lucid moments, he must know that he fucked up. When humans fuck up, they generally tend to double and triple-down, unless they have a way to get out of a situation without their egos getting bruised.

Has anyone else thought about it this way? I probably won't respond because I don't have the energy to go down the rabbit hole. But, I am interested in reading any responses from those who might know of some strategies concerning this type of thing.

After all, the goal of the entire world is to stop Ukrainians from being displaced and/or killed. The rest of the world does not need to "win" or be "proven right". The goal is to stop the actions of Russia.

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multigraincracker

(32,674 posts)
1. Way above my pay grade, but would love to see
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:21 PM
Mar 2022

Putin put out of business by his own people. Not sure if we could stir that up or not.

Nevilledog

(51,080 posts)
2. He doesn't want a way out. That would be admitting he was wrong.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:25 PM
Mar 2022

I think he's gotta be taken out. Probably from within, but I'm open to other options.

dixiechiken1

(2,113 posts)
4. I agree...
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:49 PM
Mar 2022

Expecting Putin to back down in any way, shape or form will not happen. Not as long as he's alive. He's a megalomaniac, like Trump. And seriously, have we ever seen TFG reverse course on anything? Ever? Nope, he doubles down.

Our best hope is that one of his own decides this is a bridge too far and takes him out.

unblock

(52,203 posts)
3. At this point, even settling for just those two eastern areas would seem like a loss...
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:31 PM
Mar 2022

and that's already unacceptable.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
5. There are some really good YouTube video essays on the "why" for this invasion...
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:49 PM
Mar 2022

As an aside - I cannot see this as anything less than what it has become since the invasion and threats of using nukes by Russians. This is no longer just a territorial issue - it is an existential threat to humanity.

Geopolitically, Putin is consistent with his stated goals - re-establishing the greater Soviet Empire under the guise of "protecting historically Russian peoples". He has a water issue in Crimea, a natural gas and oil income issue - especially if Ukraine resources on land and in the Black Sea are developed, a crumbling economy (before sanctions, which is now becoming a crater where a 21st century economy once stood), a cadre of sycophants and oligarchs instead of real advisors, a legacy issue in his own mind and a isolation problem that has left him arguing in his own head without much external world contacts or inputs for nearly 2 years.

All in all, the real question is: would he order a nuclear strike on a NATO ally or just launch a premptive first strike against the USA? The answer to that is the same as the answer to the question is he totally insane or just pathetic and dying?

If he is truly insane, then all bets are off and assassination plots MUST be underway, and subversion of the Russian military command as well. Yes - I KNOW that sounds crazy and insane itself - advocating for assassination - but the alternatives are simply untennable. If Putin IS crazy, he has access to too much destructive capability to allow him the option of deciding on his own - he forfeit that right when he invaded Ukraine. He either disavows nuclear strikes and fully exits Ukraine before talks can begin on reparations and consequences, or he must die and soon.

If he is just already dying of some other malady that is not yet public, and wanting to make his bucket list of territorial conquests a reality - however brief and at whatever costs before he kicks off - then a lot of people will die, but civilization won't be destroyed. Putin still loses in that equation too. He is already a war criminal for actions in Georgia, Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine. Pre-emptive execution for crimes against humanity to prevent THE BIGGEST ever crime against humanity (nuclear war) must be considered and understood, not just taken off the table or never considered.

In my mind, he is too great a risk to allow to live and find out what his intentions may or may not be...elimination of Vladimir Putin as an upright, beathing human being should be a priority for the entire world right now. No one else since Nikita Khrushchev banging his shoe has been as bellicose and threatening to world peace while threatening use of nukes, even tangentially.

"Fuck around and find out, Vlad" time has passed and with his decision to invade and subjugate Ukraine, he has made his final decision...but don't let him get to the point of desperation to actually launch. One life or billions? There's simply no calculus there where the answer is "just let Putin be Putin". End him. End this crisis.

lindysalsagal

(20,678 posts)
7. I hadn't considered the nihilistic idea that maybe he has a terminal illness and doesn't want ukrain
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:56 PM
Mar 2022

Ukrainians surviving if he can't. Wow. Maybe he's not worrying about the consequences because he won't be around for them and cares for no living souls in the world.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
8. +1. Agree. Putin's invasion of Ukraine and nuke threats change everything.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:58 PM
Mar 2022

All bets are off, and the West has to be working on the inside to covertly take him out. The sanctions work to that end to put internal pressure and force dissenters within to rise up.

Aside from that, we also must be prepared that if he attacks any NATO country or does anything with nukes to respond forcefully to take him out as quickly as possible.

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