Change of plans, no planes for Ukraine after all.

[BigmanPigman]

Zelensky: If West won't impose no-fly zone, "give me the planes". Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said at a press conference Thursday that if the U.S. and NATO will not establish a "no-fly" zone over Ukraine, they should provide Ukraine with warplanes to defend itself against Russia's aerial assault.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said at a press conference Thursday that if the U.S. and NATO will not establish a "no-fly" zone over Ukraine, they should provide Ukraine with warplanes to defend itself against Russia's aerial assault.

Why it matters: The U.S. and NATO have said enforcing a "no-fly" zone would potentially require their forces to shoot down Russian aircraft, drawing them directly into a conflict with a nuclear power.
The European Union's foreign policy chief stunned observers when he said last week that EU countries formerly part of the Eastern Bloc would deliver Soviet-era fighter jets that Ukrainian pilots were capable of operating.

****** Now the bad news....
That promise appears to have fallen apart, however, as Poland, Bulgaria and Slovakia have said they do not plan to expand the scope of their military aid to Ukraine to include aircraft.

What they're saying: "I say every day if you cannot shut the sky now, then give us the timeline when you will do it? If you now cannot provide the timeline, tell us how many people have to die?" Zelensky asked at a lengthy press conference with reporters in Kyiv.

https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukraine-no-fly-zone-planes-7eb2e6f8-d488-4444-bc70-889141b34dcf.html

[JoanofArgh]

1. This is despicable. They give them missiles but no planes?

“We mustn’t upset Vladimir. We’re content just watching Ukrainians get slaughtered.”

[Celerity]

2. I have been posting on this

No, EU countries aren't sending fighter jets to Ukraine

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216435686

[BigmanPigman]

3. I'm so pissed off over this I can't see straight.

[timvrip]

4. I live in central France and

There has been an awful lot of fighter plane activity in the skies here. Normally we get a few flyovers a week, but the numbers have increased dramatically since the Ukraine invasion.

Not sure what this means. Maybe they are practicing.

[wnylib]

5. There is no reason not to

give those planes that I can see. WTF is going on?

[BigmanPigman]

6. Celerity posted this link and it explains what their reasoning is behind the decision

https://news.yahoo.com/no-eu-countries-aren-t-233404318.html

[Silver Gaia]

15. Thanks for posting this!

I read about this a few days ago in Military Times, so I thought this was probably the reason. It tears me up that our hands are so tied.

[wnylib]

26. Strange reasoning, IMO. Sending other

equipment does not constitute direct involvement, only planes do?

[uponit7771]

14. Given drones from turkey as a purchase... Way more effective right now seeing if Russia hits...

Airports jets are useless but drones can take off from large strips if grass or roads

It's a better deal for ukr a d NATO... Anyone can fly the drone also

After this war war has changed

[oldsoftie]

18. And I've wondered, couldn't the US send some well armed drones?

I remember seeing stories about the drones in the ME being controlled by people here in the US. So why not get some Predator or Reaper drones, plaster them with UKR flags & text, deliver them over road into the country & then let our airmen deliver the goods?

I don't have any military command experience but I'm sure some folks here do. Maybe they can explain why that can't be done

[2naSalit]

24. We probably are...

And just not announcing the extent of our assistance.

[oldsoftie]

28. Thats what I've been hoping. They could wreak havoc used properly.

And we've had 20 years to hone the skill

[Meowmee]

7. They are hoping P won't go beyond Ukraine

So willing to sacrifice it. History may repeat itself here.

[Duppers]

9. This is the ultimate hostage situation.

We should remind Reich-wingers who is still supporting Putin, who's now the worst human being since Hitler.

[Meowmee]

10. Yes

I would like to see both of them meet a similar fate as some others have. Mass murderers both.

[JanMichael]

21. Worst since Hitler? Who ran the Rwandan genocide?

Or Pol Pot?

Putin sucks but is minor league comparatively speaking.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

22. so we should just wait and see?

Give Putin some more time to
become the GOAT of maniacal genocidal despots?

[JanMichael]

25. Just don't like hyperbole. And that was hyperbole and a half.

[oldsoftie]

29. Do you realize how many have been killed in Syria, Georgia, Chechnya, etc?

"Minor league" my ass

[Happy Hoosier]

8. What a disgrace.

I am ashamed.

[AngryOldDem]

11. Leaving Ukraine to die.

I really, really, really don’t understand this. Worst fighting Europe has seen since 1945 and it’s hands off.

Unbelievable.

Zelenskyy is right — how many Ukranians need to die? How much of his land has to become uninhabitable?

This is like having cancer, but waiting to see how bad it will get before something is done.

[Roy Rolling]

12. The Fog of War

Don’t believe anything you read unless verified. If Ukraine had just received warplanes, the first thing they’d do is complain they have no planes.

And then commence an all-out air assault on unsuspecting Russian assets.

And, humor me, why not attack Russian cities? They biggest ally Ukraine may have to stop Putin is internal—Russian residents and oligarchs hate when their factories, mansions, and yachts are taken away.

[oldsoftie]

17. They don't have the capabilities to hit very far inside Russia.

And actually Russia would LOVE to see UKR hit some of their cities. Then they could say "SEE?!" and use it as an excuse. Plus, Russian civilians wouldn't like it either & may change their minds.
But attacking military staging areas near the border would be nice

[CentralMass]

27. An arsenal of over 6200 nuclear weapons is a bit of an issue.

[uponit7771]

13. They're being sent more drones by turkey

[oldsoftie]

16. We need to send them some A-10s. I think their pilots could fly them.

And they would be efficient in destroying the horribly formed convoys.

[Submariner]

19. Transfer three A-10 aircraft squadrons to Ukraine now

“Give us the tools, and we will finish the job,“ spoke U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill in February 1941. Following this powerful speech, U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt proposed and Congress approved the lend-lease program. This provided the U.K. equipment and access to United States production capacity. This action was essential to stopping the Nazi advances.
History often rhymes. Now, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is making the same plea for equipment necessary to stop the advance of the Russian autocratic Army. Now is the time for another lend-lease program supporting Ukraine.

more>

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2022/03/03/transfer-three-a-10-aircraft-squadrons-to-ukraine-now/

[oldsoftie]

30. As long as we're sure they can fly & operate them. I'd think they could

I'm not a pilot but used to work in the A-10 technical support areas. They have older models with less sophisticated electronics that I think a good fighter pilot could pick up quickly. And what a a game changer those jets would be!
But again I'm not a pilot.

[lefthandedskyhook]

20. What other countries could supply planes?

nt

[Sunsky]

23. This is awful

NATO NATO NATO, we'll stand back and help from afar, while we watch people get slaughtered because they're not one of ours. I've seen the US and others involve themselves in conflicts that did not involve themselves or other NATO countries. For the good of my mental health, I am turning off news coverage and staying in my bubble because I cannot watch innocent people being slaughtered while sanctions work their way into the equation