NATO will not establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine, per Secretary General Stoltenberg

[zuul]

Euromaidan Press @EuromaidanPress

NATO will not establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine, Secretary General Stoltenberg said after a meeting of NATO foreign ministers.

“Allies agree that we should not have NATO planes operating over Ukrainian airspace or NATO troops on Ukrainian territory.”

9:41 AM · Mar 4, 2022

Link to tweet

[David__77]

1. It's so obvious that's not happening.

There’s this odd mixture of cable news and war mania that prevents sober analysis.

[MineralMan]

2. And There It Is. No No-Fly Zone.

I'm not surprised.

[Tetrachloride]

3. someone is sending those Stinger missiles.

[lagomorph777]

4. Shameful.

NATO is making itself pointless. And dead.

[tman]

18. Not at all. Ukraine is not a nato member.

I'm not against a NFZ but it isn't their role. If the west wants to go in as part of a coalition with a vote from their repective legislative bodies, great.

[Happy Hoosier]

5. Translation: Russia, you can do whatever you want. We're wetting our pants.

I am getting more and ore disappointed.

[Saboburns]

23. Then get yourself to Ukraine

And get yourself into the fight. And quit wishing for somebody else to do your fighting for you.

[SoonerPride]

25. +1

It is so easy for keyboard warriors to demand that others go die.

[Happy Hoosier]

27. That's a bullshit answer and you know it.

We have a professional military force for a reason.

[Saboburns]

29. Just because you don't like it

Until you're ready to put your ass on the line, I'd suggest dropping the condescending whinging.

You can be in Ukraine in less than 12 hours.

[BigmanPigman]

6. And now they say no planes from us, reversing their promise

to send planes a few days ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/no-eu-countries-aren-t-233404318.html

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216437771

https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukraine-no-fly-zone-planes-7eb2e6f8-d488-4444-bc70-889141b34dcf.html

[Celerity]

12. Alexandre Krauss and Josep Borrell got out over their skis

[BannonsLiver]

16. Those planes were never coming from "us".

They were surplus Russian made jets. What, you thought the US was sending Raptors?

[honest.abe]

7. The easy decision.

[SoonerPride]

26. Also the sane decision.

[Budi]

8. Its unfortunate that Ukraine didn't seek to be a NATO member before .

Especially with a Nuke Plant, a free marketing peaceful society & the proximity to RU.

Thru their treaties, NATO could have stopped Putin at the 1st sign of this threat.
Actually Putin wouldn't have touched a NATO Ukraine.
They were vulnerable, & Putin knew it.

[Crunchy Frog]

13. They did. Back in 2008 I think.

But let's blame the victim.

[Budi]

33. Oh please. No one's Blaming the victim, ffs.

Its a statement & a thought as to why any country would be without global protection considering the proximity & real threat to a murderous madman like Putin.

I wish they ALL had joined NATO. Thos wouldn't be the treacherous cat/mouse gotcha game Putin's playing with the vulnerable nation he is.

He despises the unity of NATO keeping check on his tyrannical dream to mow thru the world as he wishes.

That's was a really crass undeserved accusation. Maybe think before you reply.
No one is "blaming the victim".

I'd like to see Putin squeezed into a tiny corner of Siberia. He should never have been given the authority to exist as he is.
He was always a diabolical calculating threat.

[Budi]

35. So why aren't they in NATO today?

[Crunchy Frog]

36. It's been a long time since I was a close observer of that region.

I'm sure that you can look up that information as easily as I can.

[Budi]

43. Right. But lobbing a baseless insult is easier than answering a legit question to your statement.

💙

[radius777]

44. They did a long time ago, iirc since 2008.

Georgia and Ukraine both applied, but pretty much were blocked by Putin, or more specifically European leaders appeasement of Putin.

Putin also intentionally compromised Georgia's and then Ukraine's borders, since a requirement for qualifying for NATO membership is 'control of one's borders'.

So it is quite disingenuous when many Western leaders say 'but if they were in NATO...'

[Budi]

47. No. Its unfortunate that they couldn't.

"So it is quite disingenuous when many Western leaders say 'but if they were in NATO...'"

Its unfortunate that they couldn't be

See?

[world wide wally]

9. At least until we have NO CHOICE whatsoever.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

10. Obvious outcome, EU, NATO, want no part of an expanding theater of war, its their backyard

[Celerity]

11. A no-brainer. We cannot rapidly move toward a WWIII likelihood-enhancing theatre of combat stance.

[phylny]

14. Why are they refusing to do this?

I’m not informed enough.

[BannonsLiver]

17. Because of this.

All over the world until there’s nothing left. Hope that’s clear enough.

[ck4829]

19. Because Putin has enough people who will slit their throats on his word

And nobody wants to wage that war of attrition

[themaguffin]

21. A No Fly Zone means direct war with Russia.

[phylny]

34. Thank you for your kind and informative response.

[Budi]

39. Thanks. Putin will push till someone pushes back & he gets what he came for from day 1.

There is a line that every country knows cannot be crossed without deadly global results.

It's a psycho game of a madman.
Its a case of who blinks, & is what follows really what anyone wants or even is aware of?

I don't.

[Saboburns]

24. For the same reason Vladimir Putin never shoots at US airplanes.

It's a very simple answer.

[Polybius]

30. Because a world where 1,000's of nukes go off would be horrible

Even if humans survive, we'd lose at minimum 3 billion.

[48656c6c6f20]

15. This is way fucked up.

I got to see the fall of the soviet empire and now I get to see it rebuilt. We haven't learned a fucking thing. Keep catering to a petty little tyrant and see what the outcome will be. History says it won't be good

[themaguffin]

20. A NFZ meets direct war with Russia.

[48656c6c6f20]

28. Yeah we should wait until

He has amassed all of the former soviet satellites. It will be easier then..

[BannonsLiver]

31. So there's one for full scale nuclear war

Thanks for making your position clear. A lost art these days.

[Happy Hoosier]

38. I'm trying to figure out what you think the end-game looks like?

It seems like your conclusion is that any direct challenge to Putin has to end in full scale nuclear war? Why on Earth do you think the Russians would do that? What would they possibly have to gain?

[Budi]

41. The RU people have nothing to say about any of Putin's decisions.

Watching the world nuke itself, Putin would die happy in an orgasm of ultimate power. He is that fking insane.

[Happy Hoosier]

42. Well he certainly want you to believe that.

It's to his advantage for sure. But the man was a KGB psyops specialist. I think he is playing us. And very well. Look at us.... too petrified of a "madman" to act. EXACTLY what he wants.

[Budi]

46. "..too petrified of a "madman" to act."

We should be PETRIFIED, & Its about knowing damned well what his actual intent is.

The endgame for Putin is that he doesn't give a shit if the world blows up in a ball of fire.

Its a damned good thing for this world that wiser minds are strategizing the move of a crazy fk like Putin.

[Happy Hoosier]

50. Welp, if you are willing to base all our decisions on that....

... then is there a line he cannot cross?

If you are convinced he is willing to enact nuclear Armageddon to achieve his ends, and he doesn't give a shit, then why would he stop at Ukraine? Why not Poland? East Germany?

Simple... because you KNOW he will stop when he assesses that he is genuinely at risk.

[Budi]

53. No. Reread. There's a line all NATO countries know not to cross.

That's what Putin wants

[radius777]

48. +1. Agree, he has played us for the past 20 years.

He's convinced us that he's too dangerous to stand up to. Also, Europe especially appeased him due to wanting his oil and oligarch money - and of viewing him as a counterbalance to 'big bad America'. That is why Ukraine is not a NATO member, because Europe blocked it to appease Putin.

But enforcing a NFZ could trigger WWIII. We can't do that. We either go in fully or not. If there is a genocide I think we'd have to go in at that point. But IMO it would be up to congress to declare war. Biden can't do that alone.

The best way to defeat Putin is to ramp up the sanctions - including oil/gas sanctions - then wait until Russia crumbles from the inside. Weaken them steadily and methodically. Remember they also are going to be bogged down in trying to occupy a fiercely resistant Ukraine.

[Budi]

51. Exactly how Biden & Allies are handling it.

Rather than playing to Putin's poking a stick at the NATO Powers hoping eventually they'll react & break from the treaties they all agree upon.

Then its NATO's fault.

[48656c6c6f20]

49. You're a funny person

You got that from a post that didn't say I wanted nuclear war? You go now Carnac!

[themaguffin]

32. No, but people really need to understand what a NFZ means. People clearly don't.

[Happy Hoosier]

37. Why?

Why is everyone so convinced that Russia would engage NATO forces?

Why are we afraid of him being willing to risk a confrontation that apparently we are terrified of?

[Budi]

40. Who's catering to Putin? He is unpredictable & mad enough to sit back & watch the world burn.

That is the Ultimate Power he would die for

[Happy Hoosier]

52. If you really believe that....

... then what makes he think he will be content with Ukraine.

Why not Poland? And if he attacks Poland, would fear of nuclear war drive you to let him have that too?

[Budi]

54. He's insane.

He doesn't give a fk how many people die.

[Happy Hoosier]

55. So, the question stands.... where's the line?

And if he is insane and doesn't care about thge consequences, what makes you believe he will not cross it?

It's simple. You KNOW he is making a risk assessment.

[Budi]

56. I don't know what he's planning anymore than you do.

But damn, we have the best in the world to read the intel & collectively make those decisions how to carefully maneuver the mindset of a cornered tyrant like Putin, based on all they have. And they ain't sharing that with you nor I.
Nor should they.
Hobbling him with sanctions & supporting Ukraine with what NATO was allowed to, was the most effective planning they did, considering it was only 2 weeks ago VP Harris met in Munich as the small group began gathering the powers & strategy they were well aware of, that they'd need, & do so in a matter of a week's time.

Bravo to our united leadership.

[Happy Hoosier]

57. Alright... I guess I won't get an answer.

It seems to me, either you believe he is not making risk assessments or he is.

We'll see how hobbled he is.

I have YET to see sanctions have a substantial impact in a case like this. But these are harsher sanctions than any previously imposed, so there is some hope I guess.

But a whole lotta Ukrainians are going to die while we wait and see.

[Budi]

58. LOL. that is my answer. All you or I have are opinions at this point

Both are valid & indisputable.

As I said in the answer I gave you, neither you nor I know what Putin's planning.

Of course he's assessing something. So is our own NATO & Global allies.
They're ALL ASSESSING IT.
What that assessment determines as to a direction is unknown.

My opinion is that Putin is a crazy cornered fker & would watch the world burn if he could blame it all on NATO.

He is insane.

[Tomconroy]

22. Second Front Now!