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ColinC

(8,300 posts)
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:55 PM Mar 2022

So a ton in Congress -including Republicans and Democrats alike,

...have expressed strong desires to -at the very least provide stronger support to Ukraine including through providing drones and jets. If the Biden administration is hesitant in this regard, can or should Congress use it's power to force the US into providing such support? Or would such attempt even be successful?

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So a ton in Congress -including Republicans and Democrats alike, (Original Post) ColinC Mar 2022 OP
No. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #1
No, what? ColinC Mar 2022 #2
No Congress shouldn't declare war on Russia SoonerPride Mar 2022 #8
Not the question. ColinC Mar 2022 #10
Congress needs to be involved. BlueIdaho Mar 2022 #3
Agreed. ColinC Mar 2022 #5
It's how our government is supposed to work. BlueIdaho Mar 2022 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author ColinC Mar 2022 #32
Absolutely! ColinC Mar 2022 #33
Congress is involved. They appropriate the funds to buy bottomofthehill Mar 2022 #31
If there is a strong desire by congress for the US to be more involved, they have the right ColinC Mar 2022 #34
Absolutely no question, article 1 congress declares war bottomofthehill Mar 2022 #38
Depends on how they do it. If they pass a veto proof bill, the executive has ColinC Mar 2022 #39
God no. Biden is in touch with generals & world leaders & its his call. its his final decision. Budi Mar 2022 #4
Can you even imagine - with some of the yahoos in the repub party - notinkansas Mar 2022 #21
Nope. That'd be a horrible decision damn. Budi Mar 2022 #23
Congress already has that authority via the constitution ColinC Mar 2022 #35
While Congress as a whole does have the authority, notinkansas Mar 2022 #40
I believe the Biden administration will come around. hamsterjill Mar 2022 #6
How does Congress do this? Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #7
I wouldn't trust them all to have the foreign policy chops to make that decision. Budi Mar 2022 #12
Passing a bill. ColinC Mar 2022 #13
That needs to be signed by the Executive. Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #14
Again, an override is likely possible ColinC Mar 2022 #15
I wouldn't count on that Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #16
Well Biden has already asked for 10b from congress ColinC Mar 2022 #18
Again Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #20
You don't think Congress will pass the package that is being asked for? ColinC Mar 2022 #22
I do not believe that much will be accomplished Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #28
But seemingly united on Ukraine. We shall see. ColinC Mar 2022 #30
If the strings you describe in your OP were attached, it would force Biden tritsofme Mar 2022 #36
One Democratic leader, Ted Lieu, seems to want these things done ColinC Mar 2022 #37
You know, I think that some people just don't get that changing jets Chainfire Mar 2022 #9
I have had that same thought Caliman73 Mar 2022 #27
Sorry, I can't trust ANY reTHUGlican to do anything productive. I trust President abqtommy Mar 2022 #11
For the nay sayers, this is better than having them resist at every turn- money, equipment and PortTack Mar 2022 #17
Military intervention and foreign policy are typically the purview of the Executive Branch. Caliman73 Mar 2022 #24
The US needs to go to war to stop this war on Ukrainians. nt acantharchus Mar 2022 #25
Be very careful what you wish for Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #29
The power Congress has is found in sarisataka Mar 2022 #26

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
2. No, what?
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:57 PM
Mar 2022

Congress should not be involved in making this decision, or they would not likely be supportive of such an effort?

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
10. Not the question.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:01 PM
Mar 2022

Giving additional arms (as we have been doing) is far from declaring war on Russia. I'm just asking if Congress should be more involved in deciding what aid and how much is given.

BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
3. Congress needs to be involved.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:58 PM
Mar 2022

We need to re-establish regular order including the war powers act. One of congress’ duties it has been awol from since the beginning of the Iraq war.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
5. Agreed.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:59 PM
Mar 2022

They shouldn't just be leaving this decision entirely to the president. Congress people giving hot takes is far from even close to where congress's involvement should be.

BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
19. It's how our government is supposed to work.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:11 PM
Mar 2022

If Congress critters want to play political games with a European conflict - they will have blood on their hands. Never should any President, no matter how smart or kind be able to unleash our military weapons on any other country.

Trump wold have loved having that much power during a hot European war. Thank god he doesn’t.

Response to BlueIdaho (Reply #19)

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
34. If there is a strong desire by congress for the US to be more involved, they have the right
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 09:42 PM
Mar 2022

and authority to push for it, or even force it to happen.

The executive -despite what it has seemed, does not actually have the constitutional authority to declare war. Congress, on the other had, does.

bottomofthehill

(8,333 posts)
38. Absolutely no question, article 1 congress declares war
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 12:12 AM
Mar 2022

That said, once declared it becomes an article 2 issue. Congress could declare war on Russia tomorrow and the executive branch could still decide to fight it via proxy exactly the way it is going now.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
39. Depends on how they do it. If they pass a veto proof bill, the executive has
Sat Mar 5, 2022, 04:09 AM
Mar 2022

to follow through accordingly. That being said, I imagine if Congress is more involved, they would increase the way it is being done by proxy -more weapons, plus planes and drones being sent. And maybe, but still a long shot - a partial no fly zone in the west.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
4. God no. Biden is in touch with generals & world leaders & its his call. its his final decision.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:59 PM
Mar 2022

Force nothing, but ffs approve it full on when he requests it.


notinkansas

(1,096 posts)
21. Can you even imagine - with some of the yahoos in the repub party -
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:33 PM
Mar 2022

giving them that kind of authority? Yikes!

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
35. Congress already has that authority via the constitution
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 09:54 PM
Mar 2022

But of course, Democrats control congress so whatever passes would have their support primarily.

notinkansas

(1,096 posts)
40. While Congress as a whole does have the authority,
Mon Mar 7, 2022, 12:34 PM
Mar 2022

my thinking was more along the lines of these yahoos don't possess enough common sense to be allowed to cast votes on anything!

hamsterjill

(15,222 posts)
6. I believe the Biden administration will come around.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 05:59 PM
Mar 2022

We are already in this war. It’s just a matter of time until we admit it.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
12. I wouldn't trust them all to have the foreign policy chops to make that decision.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:02 PM
Mar 2022

Some, certainly. Biden, absolutely.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
15. Again, an override is likely possible
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:04 PM
Mar 2022

Given the strong support expressed so far by both sides in Congress.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
18. Well Biden has already asked for 10b from congress
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:06 PM
Mar 2022

I guess this is an opportunity for them to provide it with or without strings attached.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
22. You don't think Congress will pass the package that is being asked for?
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:35 PM
Mar 2022

Or you think that Congress will not give their input or attach any requirements onto that package? A major role of Congress is to make major decisions involving the military. The president should never unilaterally be making these decisions.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
28. I do not believe that much will be accomplished
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:49 PM
Mar 2022

This is a very divided Congress last time I checked.

tritsofme

(17,379 posts)
36. If the strings you describe in your OP were attached, it would force Biden
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 10:00 PM
Mar 2022

into a very uncomfortable situation of having to consider a Bush style signing statement declaring his constitutional objections.

Luckily, Democratic leaders would never let it get that far.

ColinC

(8,300 posts)
37. One Democratic leader, Ted Lieu, seems to want these things done
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 10:31 PM
Mar 2022

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We will see how the meeting with Zelensky and the Senate goes tomorrow.

Chainfire

(17,549 posts)
9. You know, I think that some people just don't get that changing jets
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:00 PM
Mar 2022

Is not like getting out of your Kia and into a Ford. It takes time to learn new weapons system, new cockpits, new procedures. Drones I can see, who knows if the guy flying the drone is in Ukraine or Kansas. I agree that the big convoy needs a healthy dose of Hellfires, but these things have to be done very delicately....

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
27. I have had that same thought
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:44 PM
Mar 2022

A lot of people seem to think that we can send F-35's and F-22's and the Ukrainians can learn to fly them over the weekend. There was the rumor (turned out to be false) that some of the Baltic states were providing them with weapons systems with which they had experience MiGs and Su's. You can learn to use a Stinger in a couple of hours and a Javelin system in a couple of days, but any or our aircraft is looking at months to get okay with and years to get good at.

Ukrainians seem to be doing some good damage with the Turkish drones they have been provided.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
11. Sorry, I can't trust ANY reTHUGlican to do anything productive. I trust President
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:01 PM
Mar 2022

Nato Joe Biden to do what's best, too. We'll all see in real time how things play out. We've
all got to support Ukraine the best way we know, but I exclude the opportunistic reTHUGS
from that. They're Fascist Scum.

PortTack

(32,773 posts)
17. For the nay sayers, this is better than having them resist at every turn- money, equipment and
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:05 PM
Mar 2022

Supplies for Ukraine

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
24. Military intervention and foreign policy are typically the purview of the Executive Branch.
Fri Mar 4, 2022, 06:38 PM
Mar 2022

Congress can legislate a package of funding for interventions, but I would imagine that the President would be able to veto the legislation.

A veto however, might make the President look weak on foreign policy.

I suspect that there would be a lot of hesitance from Congress, especially as it is Democratically lead, to go against the President from their own party.

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