Russia is one of only three countries still making Vacuum Tubes.

[MineralMan]

By the end of the 1960s, the vacuum tube was essentially obsolete for use in western civilian and military electronics equipment. By the 1980s, it was getting harder and harder for people to find the vacuum tubes needed to repair or restore vintage electronics.

As someone who was engaged in such restorations, I discovered that there were equivalents to western vacuum tubes being manufactured new in what was then the Soviet Union. Once you figured out which tubes were equivalent to the ones you needed, you could buy them again.

Guess what? Russia is still making vacuum tubes in the 21st Century. We're not. Nobody is, really, except the Russians. Why is that? Because the Russian military is still using electronic equipment made to use vacuum tubes. No chips. Not even transistors. Vacuum tubes. Imagine that!

So, if you wonder whether the Russian military has state-of-the-art electronic equipment, I can tell you that it does. But it is still using plenty of obsolete equipment with vacuum tubes. And as everyone who remembers vacuum tube electronics knows, those tubes are prone to burning out. Filaments fail and the tube becomes useless and must be replaced.

Like that convoy that is stalled in Ukraine. The radios in those trucks are vacuum-tube based. Do they work? Sometimes. Are their communications encrypted? Nope. Encryption requires computer chips. They're still operating like it's 1985. Russia does have modern electronics for some things, but it also still uses obsolete vacuum tube electronic equipment.

Russia's military is largely obsolete. It has some modern weapons systems, but that stuff is kept far from front lines. If it is destroyed, there aren't any replacements. However, there's a good supply of replacement vacuum tubes for outmoded electronics.

[Beakybird]

1. A lot of guitarist tube amp afficionados are probably upset.

[MineralMan]

3. Nah. Russia still makes tubes that are direct replacements

for those audio tubes. They're easy to get, although pretty expensive.

[Beakybird]

7. I meant that a lot of musicians in the west are really snooty about their tubes.

They won't be for sale once inventory runs out. I'm sure people will find substitutes.

[MineralMan]

13. Oh, absolutely.

Tube amps are high-dollar items these days. Also for vinyl freaks. Vacuum tube audio equipment, particularly high-end stuff, has gotten amazingly pricey these days. And you're right, the audiophiles, too, insist on carefully matched sets of vacuum tubes that have to be NOS stuff from the good old days. I never really understood it. I can hear the difference, but I don't really care.

[eppur_se_muova]

23. Someone who knows much more than me about such things wrote that it doesn't matter unless ...

you're driving your amp at the top end of its capacity, resulting in clipping. Vacuum tubes clip in a different fashion from VFETs, resulting in a different form of distortion which is less unpleasant-sounding. Turns out it may be more complicated than that, and (surprise!) the details of circuit design are important. Unsurprisingly, you can find various doctrinal wars over this if you look for them, but if you want to consider guitar amps in particular, it's good to start with the Wikipedia entry, which discusses soft clipping in this context in particular.

After introduction of solid state amplifiers, tube sound appeared as the logical complement of transistor sound, which had some negative connotations due to crossover distortion in early transistor amplifiers.[2][3] However, solid state amplifiers have been developed to be flawless and the sound is later regarded neutral compared to tube amplifiers. Thus the tube sound now means 'euphonic distortion.'[4]

[MineralMan]

25. All of that is completely lost on me.

I'm not an audiophile at all.

[DFW]

16. 6L6GC !!!

I had an old Ampeg bass amp top I used hooked up to a theater-style blaster speaker (bass and keyboards, Doors style).

I used it for every gig I played until I gave up electric.

Those WERE the days!

[BlueIdaho]

24. Voice of the theater speaker?

That is a righteous setup!

[DFW]

27. Not quite. Built by a friend back in the 1960s

It had a powerful Electro-Voice 15 inch speaker built into a massive acoustically designed housing so big, it could only be moved by rolling it on some permanently screwed on casters. We called it "Kong." When we played the Ambassador Theater (D.C.'s short-lived version of the Fillmore East), it was the only amp that didn't have to be miked.

[BlueIdaho]

29. That sounds like fun!

[DFW]

32. Was it ever!

We got "discovered" by accident. The same guy who built Kong had built the Ambassador's sound system. We were on the way from his home in DC back to my parents' place in Virginia, when he remembered he had to do a sound check for the show that night. He asked if we had the time, and we said OK. He then said it was kind of a raunchy part of town, so we should bring our gear inside. We did.

Once inside, he said, what the hell, why don't you guys set up, and I can do a real sound check for once. So we did. Of course, in a place like that, we sounded fabulous. Suddenly some guy shows up and asks who we are. We said were friends of the sound system guy helping with a sound check, why? He said, "well, I own the place." Uh-oh!

We apologized for all the noise, and said we'd tear down right away. He said, no, no, that's not what he meant at all, and by the way, were we free that night? WE ARE NOW! So, we had our first gig that night, and ended up opening for the original line-up of Canned Heat, Junior Wells and the Chicago Blues Band, and finally the Youngbloods. Hendrix had just played a couple of weeks before--we could have opened for him!! Fate is cruel sometimes. The guy started to get heat from the musicians union because we were all underage, so we had to stop, but not before we had some true good times there!

[BlueIdaho]

35. What kid from our era

Wouldn’t have died to play even one set in a place like that! Great story - even better memories!

[mitch96]

18. I had a tube audio amp years ago. Came with Chinese tubes.

I got some matched output Svletlana EL-34 tubes and it was like night and day. A more rounder sound.
m

[Celerity]

44. ЭкспоПУЛ видео продакшн These are tubes baby!

[Firestorm49]

6. They actually do make some smoking hot amp tubes.

[Hoyt]

15. Definitely. I've seen numerous discussions on musician focused forums about stocking up.

Truth is, the most sought after tubes for amplifiers are from 1960s and prior. The best -- ie, $$$$$$ -- were made in Britian, Germany, America, etc.

[drray23]

2. Vacuum tubes do have one advantage

In case a bomb is detonated, those electronics are immune to the EMP effect. Thats another thing to worry about a nuclear blast.

[MineralMan]

4. Yeah. That's true.

However, how much use is a tube radio after a nuclear device detonates? Not much, I think.

[Silent3]

21. It's still scary to think that the Russians might think...

…having EMP-hardened equipment gives them an edge, and less reason to hesitate about going nuclear.

[SoCal Roomba]

38. Our stuff is hardened as well.

It’s called Mil-Spec. Circuit Cards and chips are conformal coated, faraday caged, etc to survive an EMP.

[krispos42]

46. Exactly as much use as before the EMP

And far more useful than a modern radio turned into a puddle of plastic.

One part of nuclear war strategy is using higher-altitude detonations to wipe out unprotected electronics on the ground prior to invasion by ground troops. It throws a giant wrench into communications and all that implies.

Tube radios will still be able to function: attacks can be planned, troops can communicate, movements can be coordinated, forward observers for artillery and air strikes can do their jobs.

[underpants]

5. Wow. Good info.

I thought your post was going more toward rehab hobbies.
Extending this, it may be more of an explanation of why they aren’t ruling the skies more. I did see that their fighter bomber is being deployed - higher altitude so Stingers are useless.

Still using vacuum tubes? Amazing.
In the early 90’s we weren’t supposed to stay on the radio for more then a few seconds. I guess we weren’t encrypted either. We did have GPS though. 1991 or 92. Handheld, accurate to 1 meter if it connected with 3 satellites.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, their military aircraft are all solid state electronics, of course.

They have to be. However, while our army troops, down to the patrol level, have encrypted communications and other high-tech electronics gear, including satellite comms and high-accuracy GPS. The Russian ground-based military, however, has none of that. It's communications are primarily conducted using old tech, including vacuum-tube equipment.

There are websites that are actively monitoring Russian army communications in the HF shortwave bands. Some of them are even available and will let you listen to Russian ground troops in Ukraine. Of course you need to be able to understand Russian. They are plain text AM and FM voice communications. We stopped using HF communications decades ago. They're still using them on a regular basis. At higher levels, of course, encrypted communications and satellite communications are common, but not at the lower levels of field operations.

In every tech area, Russia is far behind us. Russia is not a rich country and has not put its money into widespread updates of field-level communications and other technology.

[underpants]

20. Pretty amazing what a GI can do these days

Stay in the fight even at night. Communicate as far up and out as needed.

Russian defense reliant on a different gauge rail is just mind blowing to me.

[MineralMan]

28. Russian Military Transport Has Always Been Rail-Based.

Due to the huge expanses of the former Soviet Union, trains were the only sure way to get around in the Winter. Their selection of a different rail gauge was deliberate, to prevent other Nations from accessing their extensive rail network with their own equipment. It worked brilliantly in the 20th century.

[underpants]

34. I hadn't thought of the reverse use

Winter is one of their weapons. Artillery works year round too.

[MineralMan]

36. Yes. It was all a 20th Century issue.

Even now, though, trains can move things like tanks and rocket launchers a lot more reliably than aircraft, and in larger quantities. In the Winter months, they can be the only way.

Conventional warfare, though, is pretty much obsolete now. Even though it is still in use, as in Ukraine. Russia is not committing a lot of its air power to that, apparently. It has fewer air assets than many people realize, too. Every plane that goes out of operational condition is a big loss to Russia these days. They have some very good aircraft, but not enough of them, and also not enough skilled pilots.

Always, training for pilots has been limited, due to the difficulty Russia (and the Soviet Union) has had in keeping their inventory ready to fly. It's very interesting, really. I mean, they're still flying TU-95 heavy bombers, slow and awkward as they are. Of course, we're still flying B-52s, too, but we do have other very capable bombers now.

[MineralMan]

30. Yes, and view the latest satellite and recon images

in the field, too. "Here's that mortar group, as of five minutes ago." They're looking at a photo image from a drone that just passed over. They can see themselves and the mortar crew. Of course, the drone might have already taken it out with a missile.

[Wounded Bear]

8. I worked on a vacuum tube based radar system in the USMC...

from 1972-77. Check your dates.

[MineralMan]

12. Yes. Vacuum tubes are still used in radar applications.

I'm talking primarily about communications, though.

[RKP5637]

9. I have boxes of tubes here left over from restoration days. Some seem to sell well on ebay.

Eventually I'll get some on, especially the Mullard tubes.

[MineralMan]

11. True. NOS western vacuum tubes, particularly audio ones

are in high demand and bring high prices. I quit restoring radios years ago. My specialty was 1940s and earlier radios. Now those older tubes are hugely expensive as NOS items. Other components, too, are no longer made and hard to find.

[MineralMan]

14. You know what really stymies electronics restorations now?

Electrolytic filter capacitors that operate at high voltages. There's no need for them in modern electronics, so nobody is making them so much any more. Worse, they don't age well, so NOS ones aren't much use.

That's why I quit restoring old radios. Tubes I could get, but purists hate seeing modern electrolytic capacitors in restored radios. I just never could get into trying to stuff new capacitors into old shells. Too much bother.

[eppur_se_muova]

22. I have a small number, from my dad's old hi-fi, that I'd like to sell, but ...

other than testing for open filaments w/a DVM, I don't have a way to test them. Vacuum tube testers are for sale on eBay, but not worth it for so few tubes. There was a custom amp maker in our area, but I never could reach them, and I think they're out of business now. Don't know who else would have one -- the last store in our area to deal with tubes closed down a few years ago.

[MineralMan]

37. Well, a tube tester is a must if you're trying to sell vacuum tubes.

Good ones aren't cheap, either, and they're getting older every year. I sold my collection of vacuum tubes as a single lot to someone who was selling tubes on eBay. I call it a collection, but it was just a bunch of boxes of tubes I had accumulated over the years. The buyer was local, so he came by with his van to pick them up.

I had tons of ancient four-pin tubes with numbers like 27, 42, 45, and 80, etc. along with some even older tubes from the 1920s and 30s. I liked the really old radios for restoration.

Problem was, for me, that the market for restored old radios had sort of died out. It really never recovered. I loved the big old console radios, with shortwave bands and all that. I used my woodworking skills to restore their cabinets, too. Now, though, except for some Zenith and Philco models, even those are selling for too little to justify the work. So, I moved on to other things.

I restored some early TVs, too, from the late 1940s. However, the market for those has completely disappeared, along with analog television. They were also a pain in the ass to restore.

[RKP5637]

42. Those were great tubes: 27, 42, 45, and 80

You could look in some of them and check out the bolts and nuts! No question if the filament was working! My years were in really hi-tech stuff, supercomputers, etc. ... but I loved working on really old radios, etc. ... as you know, you could see what was working, trace the circuits easily. Grab the B+ by mistake, LOL Fun times. Oh, and I loved the smell of old paper capacitors...

[3_Limes]

26. " boxes of tubes here"??

Check your DM.

[OneBro]

17. Small consolation for Ukrainians being blown up in their homes.

Russia's obsolete military is causing plenty of death and destruction for people on the ground in Ukraine.

[MineralMan]

19. I'm not trying to console anyone.

I'm just offering information that some people don't know.

[Calculating]

31. I assume most of these are for HiFi audio

I have two monoblocks that use Russian kt120 tubes. Come to think of it, I should probably try to get some spares before they're unobtainable. Tubes are also still made in Japan and the US in small quantities by western electric and takatsuki. I think JJ tubes are made in Czechoslovakia and are an alternative to the Russian tubes.

[MineralMan]

33. Well, they're still making those, of course.

However, they also make replacement tubes for Russian military gear. That stuff isn't sold here, because it's of no use here. Still, that's the reason there are still places making vacuum tubes. The audiophile market isn't big enough to justify a vacuum tube manufacturing facility.

However, if I were you, I'd buy some replacement tubes for your audio equipment. They will not always be available. At some point, nobody will be making them.

[IronLionZion]

39. They're less affected by a global chip shortage

Their nuclear missile systems might be obsolete too. They may not be as scary as made out to be.

[MineralMan]

41. I don't have any information at all about the Russian nukes.

There really isn't any public information about the status of them. I'm sure our intelligence services have a very good idea about that, but that information isn't going to be available to anyone outside of those channels.

It may be that the Russians don't really know what their readiness level is.

[PatSeg]

40. Very interesting

Thanks for sharing.

[jmowreader]

43. The Russians also have modern, high tech radios

The new R-173 radio is completely solid state and offers frequency hopping mode like all the current Western tactical radios do.

Besides the fact the Russians never throw anything away - they still have SKS rifles buried in Cosmoline just in case - there are three very good reasons why they like tube-type radios.

First, a tube transmitter has fewer parts in it. Transistorized amplifiers need many stages to go from microphone level to…oh, say 50 watts. You can do it in two stages if you’re running tubes.

Next, tube finals are pretty accepting of substandard antenna setups. MineralMan knows about this…there is a proper length antenna for any frequency. If you get it wrong, some of the transmitted energy is reflected down the cable to the transmitter. They call this standing wave ratio. Tube finals work okay in high SWR conditions, but solid state finals will burn out if subjected to it. The new western radios have automatic antenna tuners in them.

And very important to them, tube radios will put up with higher temperatures than solid state radios. When Poppy Bush sent us to Saudi Arabia, keeping the radios cool enough to work was a huge problem. The Russians have far more than 99 problems, but keeping their old radios from melting ain’t one.

We make tubes in the US in Palo Alto, CA, but they’re huge power tubes.

[MineralMan]

45. Yes, it does. But, those radios are not in the hands of the people

invading Ukraine, or much of anyone else in the military. They have them, but not enough of them.

The real problem is that their tactical communications are wide open. Anyone with a shortwave receiver can intercept them. In fact, people are doing that as I speak and making the transmissions public on the Internet. I'm a big fan of software defined radio (SDR), and have an SDR device plugged into a USB port on my computer. I cannot hear HF transmissions in Ukraine, of course, but the capabilities of that device and the software it uses are quite remarkable, indeed.

My point is that the field comms capabilities of Russian units are pathetically insecure. It's indicative of the poor technological resources the Russians send into the field with their personnel. The Russian military is out of date and out of touch.