General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums(kinda) BREAKING: US working with Polish government to supply MiGs to Ukraine
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/05/white-house-deal-fighter-jets-ukraine-00014424%3f_amp=trueThe U.S. remains in discussions with Poland to potentially backfill their fleet of fighter planes if Warsaw decides to transfer its used MiG-29s to Ukraine, four U.S. officials tell POLITICO.
The ongoing talks, as President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pleads with Congress for help, underscore the frantic push to find weapons to equip Ukrainian forces as they continue to fight off the massive Russian invasion.
bucolic_frolic
(42,676 posts)will Putin consider the US not at war with him? We are supplying just like the arsenal of democracy we always were.
Chainfire
(17,308 posts)Russia. Ukraine has given his army a very hard time. The combined arms of Europe and the US must look like more than he could handle even to Putin. Although he will continue to whine, and threaten, he will probably just have to suck it up.
relayerbob
(6,509 posts)His army and air force getting bogged down in Ukraine is a really bad sign, and the US could elminate most of his top military units in a matter of days, if not hours, in a conventional war.
WA-03 Democrat
(3,017 posts)The Bush Doctrine of "Preemptive War" really seems to fit.
Drones baby Drones!
WA-03 Democrat
(3,017 posts)is my guess. Russia/Putin has been at war with the US since 2015. We need to fight back and destroy Putin.
ColinC
(8,232 posts)The risk of sending Ukraine the jets is outweighed by gaining a fleet of F35's...
WA-03 Democrat
(3,017 posts)I am no fan of Poland's President but the hatred of the USSR is still very alive in all former states behind the iron curtain.
Vogon_Glory
(9,085 posts)on the tarmac and some no-good rascals crept in and flew off with them. No idea as to how that happened
Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2022, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Shanti Shanti Shanti
(12,047 posts)OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,371 posts)70 Fighter jets of Russian origin for Ukraine last week. When asked all three countries said no way, unless NATO has mothballed a large bunch of MIGs & Sukhoi fighters... there is not much inventory out there. The Su-25 is similar to an A-10 Warthog, they would have a field day with that convoy if they had something like a few F-18 growlers to jam Russian SAMs....
My personal view is there is no perfect solution, each solution is between a rock & a hard place. The only viable solution to save the Ukrainian people from more horror from the sky & land is for NATO to do what they did in Libya
Current Inventory Not much
Bulgaria
MiG-29 Soviet Union multirole MiG-29UB 13 2 used for conversion training
Sukhoi Su-25 Soviet Union attack 8 2 used for conversion training
Poland
MiG-29 Soviet Union[21] multirole MiG-29A/UB 23
Sukhoi Su-22 Soviet Union fighter / bomber 18
Slovakian
MiG-29 Russia multirole MiG-29AS/UBS 11 1 used for conversion training
NATO Will Not Be Lending Fighter Jets to Ukraine
This is probably the right decision, as much as it is a frustrating one: NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Tuesday that European Union members will not lend fighter jets to the war in Ukraine, after days of mixed messages from officials across Europe.
God knows how clearly Vladimir Putin is seeing anything these days, but if Ukrainian pilots are traveling to Poland or Slovakia and then flying into Ukrainian airspace to fight Russian jets or bomb Russian targets
then the Russian military would declare those Polish or Slovakian air bases are now legitimate military targets and then the war between NATO and Russia ensues.
(As for the question of whether Ukrainian pilots know how to fly NATO jets
the short answer is, it depends: The Ukrainian air force flies Soviet-made MiG-29s and three types of Sukhoi jets. Three NATO nations, Poland, Slovakia, and Bulgaria, also fly the MiG-29, a twin-engine fighter jet developed in the 1970s. Bulgaria also flies the Su-25, a close-air support jet also flown by Ukraine. NATO probably doesnt have a lot of MiG-29s, and it would be hard to begrudge Poland, Slovakia, and Bulgaria for wanting to keep their own jets for possible use by their own pilots during the crisis.)
I do wonder if a NATO country could theoretically land their jets near the Ukrainian border, have Ukrainian pilots taxi across the border line, and then take off from Ukrainian soil. Or whether NATO countries could (utterly implausibly) claim that Ukrainian pilots snuck onto the air bases and stole some MiG-29s.
more
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/nato-will-not-be-lending-fighter-jets-to-ukraine/
ColinC
(8,232 posts)Really hoping some solutions comes out. I imagine if Ukraine can just get there hands on a larger air force through lend lease or any other way (full NATO support), they will turn this around quickly. On the other hand, even without more planes, I would guess Ukraine may have nearly half a million fighters. With that on top of all of the military gear being provided and the fact that their gear has been being upgraded through NATO support over the years plus the substantial number of Russian equipment they seem to be adopting, I have a decent feeling that they could pull off a win -or partial win (divided Ukraine) if the support they are getting currently plus Russian sanctions, remain. However more weapons from NATO and jets, could prevent more unneeded deaths and end the conflict sooner.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,371 posts)it takes a good many flights to get a pilot up to speed in a F-15 or F-16, which the US has many, many mothballed. These things move, trying to fly one, understand the avionics, the yaw, the split second reactions a good pilot needs in a new ship....the time isn't there to accomplish this.
Again my opinion is NATO has to intervene using humanitarian reasons. This entire situation is on a razor, as this is what Putin wants. I don't think he's that interested in Ukraine, he's interested in a war with what he thinks is a weakened & divided NATO & United States. He f'up big time as his actions have caused the opposite. People are in the street, thousands & thousands all over the globe. The politicians are watching, their usual mode of sticking their heads in the sand hoping this will all go away is not going to happen with putin bombing civilian buildings, killing people daily.
Someone is going to have to act to stop this, the only way is to take him on directly.
ColinC
(8,232 posts)Again my opinion is NATO has to intervene using humanitarian reasons. This entire situation is on a razor, as this is what Putin wants.
Like seriously exactly what I've been trying to say forever!! Doesn't even have to be a no fly zone. could just be some humanitarian helicopters in areas with no conflict, blocking Putin's progresss. It seems to have worked in Georgia. Should do it now.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,371 posts)I'm glad I'm not sitting in their chairs today. Maybe look for a back door putin can slither out of & save face. The thing is he will probably do it again.