General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFerrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)And there is no going back from nukes. They are forever.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)He wants a fight, he is going to keep pushing for it.
Question now is how long are we gonna set out of it? Going to wait for another Pearl Harbor and 9/11?
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)Indulging him would be a mistake. Were providing intel to Ukraine and arming them along with many of our allies. The sanctions are exacting a heavy toll on the Russian economy and that will increase over time. Thats the plan and we should stick to it, even though this is often unbearable watch, let alone endure.
wnylib
(21,327 posts)wnylib
(21,327 posts)Not enough people dying. We should have a nuclear third world war in order to kill off several million more people.
How does that help Ukraine, Europe, and the rest of the world?
durablend
(7,455 posts)wnylib
(21,327 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)wnylib
(21,327 posts)be enough for you?
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)Useing them? He is out for conquest. It won't stop him from useing them.
wnylib
(21,327 posts)the world is doing? You are unaware of the arming of Ukraine, the sanctions that are crippling the Russian economy and ability to sustain war?
I am grateful that there are intelligent people in charge who are making rational decisions about strategies. I prefer them over armchair generals.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)You have it in your mind that nuclear war is inevitable so we should just get it over with. Personally I would like to buy as much time as is possible before that comes to fruition to see if other opportunities present themselves before destroying all life on the planet save for maybe cockroaches. But maybe thats just me. I am sort of funny like that. Wanting to avoid destroying the planet and all.
Wingus Dingus
(8,052 posts)He's bogged down somewhat in Ukraine, has damaged his troops' morale and his military looks fucking stupid AND this is using up much of their military capabilities. AND it's expensive. AND his nation is being economically and culturally punished. Some of his advisors are going to stay away from windows, because his initial objectives in Ukraine are not coming to fruition. He's not winning in any sense except as an angry bull on a rampage is allowed to keep rampaging for a while.
ProfessorGAC
(64,837 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 6, 2022, 05:08 PM - Edit history (1)
...they never had the cash flow to support an occupation. Sanctions or not.
They needed this to be fast, efficient & thorough. They badly miscalculated their own capability, Ukraine's resistance, & world reaction.
This is going to be an economic disaster, and it STARTED as an economic mistake. There was never an economic upside.
Wingus Dingus
(8,052 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)wnylib
(21,327 posts)But there will not be one by NATO, the US, the EU, or the UN for millions of human reasons.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)more or less active combat role. It seems like a lot of people see this as a defensive half measure - but if Polish (or German, or French, or American) planes start engaging and shooting down Russian ones ...
It's military escalation. I think the escalation has to be clearly seen and appreciated as coming from Putin. My opinion.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)non-NATO countries, threatening, "I have nukes." The man is a sociopathic KGB type IMO. I certainly don't have suggestions, but I don't see this ending with Ukraine. A No Fly Zone could be one solution, but likely he sees this as an act of war. I wonder how far before he really declares war on sanctions.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)As with WWII, WWIII is starting, do we wait for a Pearl Harbor ?
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)Many times. That's why we built such a militarily.
Sad to see some many ready to relive history.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)a bunch of unreasonable demands ... then, which country is next. It's really frustrating for those of us that have lived through this shit before. I was alive when Hitler was still around.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)And I think escalation at this point (in a conflict where Russia is fairly very badly) - would be a very serious miscalculation on the part of the west and our allies.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)We've seen this show before and a bunch of people are ready to relive it.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Beachnutt
(7,279 posts)so that it is not known which country took him out and everybody wins.
wnylib
(21,327 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)from this beast.
Wingus Dingus
(8,052 posts)Only Russia can take out this guy.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)Putin's successor (or military apparatus) would being willing to take on -- who exactly? -- at this point in time -- and following the debacle that is unfolding before their eyes?
You're first statement might be much more accurate.
Wingus Dingus
(8,052 posts)twitter thread from a Russian expat professor whose name I can't remember, and she said Putin's very-loyal strongmen around him wouldn't turn on him, and most likely neither will the oligarchs--because all of these men are basically DONE in Russia, if Putin goes. They need Putin more than Putin needs them, and they know it.
That said, if a country WAS going to be destabilized and undergo regime change of the sort we're talking about...I'd look to Belarus. I sincerely hope the people there revolt and overthrow Lukashenko. That would really fuck up Pooty's world, be a HUGE headache, and prevent him from being able to hold Ukraine, possibly. We included them on some sanctions and they stepped back from committing forces to Ukraine--clearly effective pressure. Need to step it up.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)WarGamer
(12,338 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)We wait and the body count is going to be worse.
WarGamer
(12,338 posts)The only way we lose US lives is if we send our troops over THERE.
But let's hear a number... how many lives is A-OK?
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)He is already yelling that we have done an act of war with the sanctions. He is showing he wants a fight.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)But he's going to do no such thing.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)Best defense is playing offense.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)But Hitler just kept going. Japan and Italy joined him....
We know how all that played out.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)WarGamer
(12,338 posts)between Moscow and DC...
A "deconfliction line"
I feel better knowing pros are running the show
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)von Stauffenberg.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,249 posts)Ukraine is asking for volunteers to fight the Russians, so, put your money where your mouth is and go to the nearest Ukrainian Embassy and volunteer to fight for them.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Which and how many of OUR sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, and nieces and nephews are you willing to risk?
This is not OUR war...yet. It will be as soon as we do more than offer background assistance.
What are YOU personally willing to do or sacrifice? What are YOU doing now?
It's so easy to say "Get involved." It's so difficult to extricate ourselves once we do.
Let's leave the military decisions to those entrusted to make them.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)We set out the start of WWII and look at the destruction. How many died because we set back. It took Pearl Harbor to get us involved.
Putin is already saying that we have done acts of war. He is going to drag us into it.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Remember our thousands of precious citizens lost in the furor of past wars. Don't be in such a rush to commit more to their doom
We fortunately have put President Biden in place to handle matters such as this. He's well aware of Putin and his possibilities. I have to trust he has the information and acumen to make the right decisions.
Vague questions and silly polls on a social forum aren't - and shouldn't - dictate what actions are to be taken. Such a worthless exercise!
You don't seem to answer the questions asked of YOU, such as: "What are YOU personally willing to do or sacrifice? What are YOU doing now?"
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)It can come on to our shores. The death count will have small children added to it.
Best defense is offense.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)"These sanctions that are being imposed are akin to a declaration of war but thank God it has not come to that," Putin said, speaking to a group of flight attendants at an Aeroflot training centre near Moscow.
stopdiggin
(11,241 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)We are coordinating with allies on unprecedented sanctions and providing Ukrainians with support. Will more need to be done? We shall see.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)If, by "We" you mean the United States of America, "We" are doing many things to make Russia feel pain for what it is doing. We have more in the works.
If, by "We," you mean something that includes you, then please tell us what you will do. If it includes me, I am not interested in doing anything at this moment that will provoke Putin into going nuclear.
But, we are not "just standing by." Nope.
ProfessorGAC
(64,837 posts)Emile
(22,471 posts)putting the hurt on the Russia economy. I trust my president, that's why I voted for him.
DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)Or your children/grandchild.