General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOK, I have to ask this.
Does everyone realize that it is OK if we express opinions and have conversations about the war? I think some are confused about that.
Having a conversation on DU does not amount to our ordering the powers-that-be to run the war according to our wishes. Because those running the war are not affected by our conversations.
They are conversations. And it's OK to have them. It doesn't mean we think we are experts. It just means we have an opinion. And that is allowed.
Even if you disagree with what someone thinks about the war, they are still allowed to say it.
And we can have an opinion even if we have not been in the service. Because we live in the USA. And that's allowed. And we are here on a discussion board. Whose purpose is discussion.
So if you are outraged that people are expressing opinions about the war that differ from your own opinions, you can relax. Because Joe and the military are not listening to us.
They're just conversations. And people come here to talk.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)It is insult after insult. It is complex. I am not afraid of nuclear war. I dont think it will happen and I dont take to kindly to a dictator who has nukes determining whether we have a democracy or not.
czarjak
(11,191 posts)Texasgal
(17,029 posts)I found a certain thread to be insulting and just plain RUDE.
littlemissmartypants
(22,417 posts)I try not to be surprised by it or agitated by it. But they're here and I think they believe it is their solemn duty to express their contrary opinion, whether they believe in it or not. It usually only takes a post or two before they show up but they're always here.
I appreciate your perspective. It's comforting to know that you care and that you have taken the time to validate the community at large here on DU. We are who we are, warts and all but it's rare to see this. Thank you. ❤
🇺🇦🌻❤🌻🇺🇦
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,417 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)KPN
(15,585 posts)Hekate
(90,189 posts)brer cat
(24,401 posts)XacerbatedDem
(511 posts)In the words of Rodney King, "Can we all just get along?" I've had to post that before because it seemed the conversation between two or three posters was just getting out of hand.
So, did I do right or wrong?
At least I tried.
LakeArenal
(28,713 posts)As usual the best defense is an offense:
Youre the snarky one for calling out my snark.
quaint
(2,508 posts)DLevine
(1,788 posts)Sneederbunk
(14,207 posts)Line up strong NATO forces all along Poland/Belarus border and make outrageous demands on Belarus.
1. This will drive Belarus crazy.
2. It will distract Russia.
3. NATO troops will be available in area if needed on short notice.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)Sending fighter jets to Poland is necessary though it does escalate tensions.
Putting NATO troops on Belarus border is NOT necessary.
DENVERPOPS
(8,677 posts)whose to say that this isn't part of Putin's plan????????????
Sneederbunk
(14,207 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)COL Mustard
(5,781 posts)They're the first republic in Putin's new USSR. Lukashenko handed over his manhood a few weeks ago. No other way to look at it.
jaxexpat
(6,700 posts)How well will those 3 points, which you enumerated, work toward lessening the sort of tensions which pressure national leaders to react in the simplest, most elemental manner? Will the stool, when they soil themselves, be a different color?
I expect Belarus has effectively given its autonomy over to Russia already. Any distraction they experience would be the reaction from the lens of Putin's POV. They are helpless bait on Putin's hook. Unless they rise and take on the sacrificial role of the Ukraine.
Can we appreciate how Machiavellian we would be, were we to assemble the boys and girls of our mothers and fathers as a cast of actors who function as props to see how Putin will react? Even armed to the teeth and in full body armor, they are ultimately pieces on Putin's chess board. He already has a "queen", a tool to match ours in ANY reaction he chooses. The tripwire on this snare was set by those long dead now.
Winning is when time passes and we're still here. The hard questions are, and have been for 70 plus years now, what can we do to extend that time, moment to moment, a few days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries, millennia longer.
If we were to be able to see each other, come to know each other, befriend each other, when we would look upon the other's visage would we be able to appreciate the intimate blessing of personal recognition of how we are, both, all, at the precipice where all directions are disaster? Despite our desperate, internal, chemical, supernatural, creation of other possibilities, the fact is, we are there now.
I say the answer is to be still and breathe as if it were your best and last.
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)Unless you're the sacrificial dead. Are they winning too by proxy?
jaxexpat
(6,700 posts)Death or war are "friend only to the undertaker", according to Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong in 1969. Is there a solution wherein the people of the Ukraine are saved with aide from the western powers without starting WWIII? I'm certain it is the constant point of focus for every action by the Biden administration. Probably for most of the worlds' leaders as well. What's clear is, that at this juncture, NATO members cannot act militarily. Perhaps India will jump in, or South Africa.....Brazil?
My bet is it will be some entity from within Russia that will end this and stop this stupid and horrible manmade storm of senseless death. Otherwise it will continue.
58Sunliner
(4,339 posts)Or terror to be inflicted on fellow humans. And what you respond above is not what you posit in your first post.
"I say the answer is to be still and breathe as if it were your best and last."- Why don't you go stand over a murdered dead body and spout this. You aren't Shakespeare and this isn't a stage. This is real life and death. Something I don't think you have ever faced.
jaxexpat
(6,700 posts)Make righteous acts to right wrongs and it's still the end of civilization, if not the planet, when nuclear weapons start flying. We have choices, though those before us now are not too satisfying.
Why do you make this personal? and you've made this personal. I only want to see my grandchildren have a chance to live long enough to pit their wits against global climate change. That's not wrong, nor is it a signal to capitulate before injustice. "Shakespeare", indeed, though it has gotten a bit dramatic.
msfiddlestix
(7,264 posts)is fundamentally simple concept. The strategy in overcoming the evil aggressor can be complicated mainly due to the devastating specter of Nuclear Warfare and a number of other very serious and complicated geopolitical, socio-economical issues, the list is endless.
(editing to include : not the least of concerns in weighing in on policy matters are Humanitarian concerns)
I have been an "anti-war"activist for over six decades. There was never a war during my lifetime, before now, in which I felt we had the moral high-ground. We were always the unwanted invaders. I always said, make the case for self defense against attacker, and I'm all in. I've never been a Pacifists, I've always believed in doing whatever is necessary to defend and protect.
Ukraine is begging us and the world to intervene. This is the first time I support intervention against an aggressor like Putin.
Hopefully we have enough intelligent and morally ethical military, intelligence strategists behind our administration.
Obviously, We do have a few clearly, I'm hoping what we have is enough.
Wingus Dingus
(8,049 posts)and proposing scenarios/suggestions, are from members who don't like what's being said or proposed, but don't want to make the effort to discuss it or counter it properly. It's lazy to counter with, "Are YOU going to serve? HUH??" or "Where did YOU get your expertise?" Those aren't arguments or discussion posts, those are attack-the-messenger tactics. On edit: my favorite is "Don't you trust Biden?" as if it's a political attack on him to consider various scenarios and discuss policy.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)wnylib
(21,146 posts)Guilty of using it. And I stand by the OP's statement that we are ALL here to express our views.
dameatball
(7,380 posts)people the wrong way and they respond accordingly. Take it with a grain of salt. Trying times we have been in for quite a long while now. Seems like the hits keep coming for all of us. We're all in it together for the most part.
ShazzieB
(15,952 posts)Silent3
(15,018 posts)...or potentially escalating the war merely by saying anything here. That's absurd.
But if you're asking that dumb ideas receive no criticism, I don't agree with that.
On the internet, far too often when someone talks about what they are "allowed" to say, it really about what they can say while having their words greeted only with approval, or at worse, silence. This complaint generally has nothing to do with people actually being permitted to state their opinions or not.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)It's about the threads of "Oh, everyone thinks they're an expert!" or comments like, "If you weren't in the military, then STFU," etc.
Those are not ideas or counters to ideas. Those are just attempts to silence conversations. And are misplaced on a discussion board.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,092 posts)please, everyone, express your opinion, the 1st Amendment demands it.
While I may not agree with some opinions here, I support their right to express it.
DENVERPOPS
(8,677 posts)And especially, just because Trump's crowd has come up with an incredible number of ways to manipulate and distort the 1st, doesn't mean we have to do the same and ignore our incredible U.S. Constitution........
(Trump's bonus from all this, is giving his followers just another group to hate. Russian immigrants and Russians who are citizens)...
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,092 posts)onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)🌻🇺🇦
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)ck4829
(34,971 posts)That should literally be the only rule here regarding this subject.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)Because some there would have needed reminding.
BidenRocks
(813 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)XacerbatedDem
(511 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,375 posts)The constant smugness from the "snark brigade" is so off-putting. As is the constant scolding.
I can't believe people here have to be reminded that the point of a discussion board is to discuss.
mysteryowl
(7,323 posts)RESPECT
Fiendish Thingy
(15,361 posts)Not saying you, or anyone in particular is spreading misinformation, just making a distinction.
NQAS
(10,749 posts)SergeStorms
(18,880 posts)They haven't allowed me to make major policy decisions since the Obama administration.
I agree 100%, Scrivener 7.
mysteryowl
(7,323 posts)I posted my own opinion thread yesterday and people were attacking me for my opinion.
It really sucked! What happened to discussion?!
The irony of my situation is that today, the very opinion I had, is now being done by governments.
So, wow.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)It happens about everything here. Imo there are lots of trolls here as well. Even if people in charge were listening in I am sure they do not care if people discuss it and voice opposite opinions etc. This is a democracy and we can do that tg.
And no one owes fealty to anyone. We are not less intelligent or unable to contribute or have valid opinions if we dont serve in military either. People serve in many different ways.
How many times have supposed experts been wrong and never even admit it.
MLAA
(17,162 posts)Warpy
(110,900 posts)When somebody tells us we're off the mark, we can either go off in a huff or check it out. I usually do both, in that exact order.
It works.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)to have the discussion, or saying that we are "second guessing" our leaders if our opinions stray from what we see happening.
Tell me I am off the mark all you like, I welcome that.
But a discussion board is no place for people to tell others to "STFU" or for ridiculing people as "armchair generals" when they discuss the war.
But I do think the "huff and check" system is a useful one.
Warpy
(110,900 posts)and do some reading when you get back. Get equipped to have the discussion.
There have been many times in international groups when it was a hell of a lot ruder than "off the mark" and in a language I understood. This is what I did. Sometimes, I'd been right on the mark. I didn't expect an apology, so I left them dangling and wincing, waiting for an "I told you so" that never came. Sometimes, I'd been far off the mark and said so.
Pol boards everywhere turn into rhetorical mosh pits when things get tense.Growing a thick skin is essential. So is doing enough reading to determine whether or not you're the one in the wrong. That happens to all of us.
As far as being an armchair general, well, that's me. The closest I ever got to military training was working in a VA hospital. However, I am an avid reader of history, enough to know a few of the likely outcomes to this war and although I know and like many Ukrainians in the US (we share a rather savage sense of humor), I know they haven't always worn the white hats.
Still, this is Putin's war and it's amazing to see countries and even soulless corporations coming together in nonviolent solidarity to isolate Russia into stopping this war. It might even work, although not quickly enough.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)ms liberty
(8,478 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,056 posts)I am probably missing some context here, but generally speaking, opinions are not like bombs falling on our houses, and discussions are not like trench warfare. We can all survive the emotional trauma of being exposed to one (or two, or ten) that may anger us. All things considered, it's a small price to pay for a chance to learn something.
Demovictory9
(32,320 posts)Sympthsical
(8,925 posts)Trying to snark and slam others who want to be more cautious is an . . . interesting development.
People have their opinions. I say very little, because I find, "I don't know" a perfectly acceptable opinion to hold - one which I often do on matters I have very little education about.
But watching people declaring "Let's widen this thing!" when they'll not be shipped on over is certainly a look.
Opinions? Sure. Jingoism? Ugh. You're either with the Ukrainians or against them?
Self-awareness on line three, people.
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)chance of fighting in an American war, so your opinion is one we should hear. (I am thinking I remember that you are considerably younger than the average here. I don't remember where I gleaned that from, so forgive me if I am wrong about that.)
It would be a shame if someone here dismissed your viewpoint and told you to STFU because you have not previously served in the military or called you an "armchair general" and dismissed your position because you have a strong opinion that may not jive with those of others.
We can fight each other. It's worth fighting about. But I'm talking about people trying to shut the conversation down.
Skittles
(152,963 posts)I especially dislike hearing people who never served, many from FAMILIES who never served, thinking "we" should jump right in
LetMyPeopleVote
(143,998 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,361 posts)Man, think of all the pixels Ive wasted
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)Bettie
(15,995 posts)Fact is, no one with any power to do anything gives a single fuck what any of us say on a message board.
I'm not deluded enough to think that my opinion means anything to anyone except maybe my husband and sons.
I come here to express frustration and to see that others feel the same way, to see that someone might have an answer that makes my frustration less, to hear good news with like-minded people, and to talk to others about bad news.
hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)Democrats fall under a wide tent with many varying opinions, objectives and sentiments.
These threads about war experts go right along with the threads insisting that anyone who thinks not enough is being done to get Trump indicted are trying to be legal experts.
No, we are expressing our opinion and/or dissatisfaction about something, and THAT is what a democracy is all about.
I saw threads yesterday asking any who expressed that we should send troops, etc. why they hadnt volunteered themselves.
Just like I expect the DOJ to do its job, I expect the military to do its job. Why is that a problem? I thought thats why we all pay taxes.
Time will tell how involved we get but Im betting we are already more involved than many here wish to admit.
Tikki
(14,537 posts)Star Trek Discovery coming to save the Ukrainian people and their Country.
It is not real and I know it but I want to do something so badly.
It feels like a failure because we haven't gotten far enough ahead in the World to have a way
to just stop putin.
I have helped by sending financial help, and hoping every little bit helps.
Tikki
betsuni
(25,122 posts)and so on.
Same ones (with the fantasy of a corrupt corporate Democratic Party that will be transformed by populist saviors) insinuating for years that correcting misinformation about Democrats and supporting them makes one a wealthy old centrist trolling Democratic forums, whose links, literally anything, are right-wing sources. Finally, they have unmasked us as rabid warmongers as well! Yes, we are all old conservative capitalist western empire warmonger elites! Happy now?
At least I haven't seen anyone here say that the main reason Americans are so concerned about the invasion of Ukraine is because it's a white people country. Not one but two Jezebel articles did that.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)Emile
(21,883 posts)Just sayn. .
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Whew! What a relief!
Scrivener7
(50,773 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)Zelensky is running his defense and running the war for the Democracies of the world.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)lark
(22,993 posts)Stuart G
(38,359 posts)...and it ain't a pleasant read...yes a book...
........................another one....Saving Private Ryan .(a movie)..not pleasant either..............
....................A real documentary that won awards....The Anderson Platoon...more about that movie:
The Anderson Platoon is a documentary feature by Pierre Schoendoerffer about the Vietnam War, named after the leader of the platoon - Lieutenant Joseph B. Amderspm
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)I still do not understand why. It was an opinion I wanted to discuss. I got attacked with a bunch of f bombs.
All I can say is if you don't like someones ideas then either discuss them with civility or shut up. This has only happened twice to me on this forum but it is disturbing.
YoshidaYui
(41,759 posts)the rules set down by the owner and his crew ,,right wing conversations are not wanted here , because as we all know they are mostly wrong and set from lies. thats a good example anyway,. those who break the rules often do not last long here either.