Pope Francis: "rivers of blood" are flowing in Ukraine. He's sending two Cardinals

[pnwmom]

to the border.

He also called out journalists who are "putting their lives at risk," and gave them special thanks for their work.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/politics/pope-says-rivers-blood-flowing-ukraine-vatican-ready-help?fbclid=IwAR3EZijW-EdOSrn-4Z8MaBEq3NeMxKQm5XwB7p6xECMPGmm2jflL80ePm9g

Pope Francis said he was sending two cardinals to Ukraine: Polish Cardinal Konrad Krajewski, who runs the office of papal charities, and Canadian Cardinal Michael Czerny, interim president of the Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development.

"The presence of the two cardinals there is the presence not only of the pope, but of all the Christian people who want to get closer and say: 'War is madness! Stop, please! Look at this cruelty!'" the pope said.

Moments after the pope spoke, Cardinal Krajewski told Vatican News that he was about to leave Rome for Poland "because from Poland I am sure I will be able to enter Ukraine. Then we'll see how far I can get to reach the people and show them the closeness of the pope, tell them he loves them, prays for them and wants to encourage them."

SNIP

Cardinal Czerny told Catholic News Service that he would be heading to Hungary's border with Ukraine and would see what could be done from there.

Even if the cardinals cannot get into Ukraine, the Polish and Hungarian borders are the top two destinations of Ukrainians — mainly the elderly, women and children — fleeing the war.

[keithbvadu2]

1. Dicastery - always something new to learn - had to look it up.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=dicastery

[CurtEastPoint]

5. Ditto. 72 year old RC here and I never heard of it!

[keithbvadu2]

7. At first I figured he was sending two hot shots for the typical 'Bless 'em and forget 'em'.

At first I figured he was sending two hot shots for the typical 'Bless 'em and forget 'em'.

These two look like they might be able to do something.

[lindysalsagal]

2. How dare the pope question gawd's will??? Gawd is causing everything. He's MYSTEEEEEEERIOUS!!!!

Wake. The. Eff. Up. believers.

[pnwmom]

8. Catholics don't believe in predestination. Everything that happens is NOT God's will,

in the Catholic belief, because people have free will and can use it to do bad things.

This separates them from the religious groups that accept the Calvinist teaching of predestination.

[XanaDUer2]

9. Thank you nt

[keithbvadu2]

12. There is no free will. There is only allowed will. All evil is pre-approved by God.

God IS in control... IF you believe in an all-powerful God.

We had a discussion on this.

God knows all - past, present, and the future.

God has the power to change whatever he wants.

God has the power to 'change mens hearts' and has been given credit for doing so.

Whatever evil/bad happens has been approved by God.

IF you believe in an all-powerful God.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218317588

[pnwmom]

18. That is not the Catholic viewpoint. If God is all powerful

then he has the power to allow humans free will.

You can repeat your own view all you want, but there is no way to prove it. Your view is your belief, just as the Catholic view is the belief of that religion.

[keithbvadu2]

19. You prove my point exactly

You use the word 'allow'.

"then he has the power to allow humans free will. "

[pnwmom]

20. An act is only done FREELY if it's NOT predestined or determined by God.

Philosophers and theologians have been arguing over this for hundreds of years, and the discussion is still ongoing. The answer that you choose to believe in is your BELIEF, nothing more.

[keithbvadu2]

21. God knows all - past, present, and the future.

God knows what the choice will be and you agree that God allows/approves it.

[pnwmom]

22. You just made an assumption based on your own religious beliefs, or critique thereof.

You assumed that God's time is linear, like the scientific construct of human time.

But Catholics, and people of many other faiths, believe God is eternal. Not before, not after -- but always, all at once --and beyond human conceptions of linear time.

[keithbvadu2]

23. So to you, God is not all-powerful nor all knowing.

So to you, God is not all-powerful nor all knowing.

Mere physics is above God's understanding or control.

That understanding of free will is appropriate for a weak God.
====================

My explanation only applies...

IF one believes in an all-powerful God.

[pnwmom]

24. No, that's not what I'm saying. This isn't about the constructs of physics or biology.

You use the Calvinist definition of an all-powerful God, based on a linear view of time. Catholic theology doesn't.

It doesn't matter. You're not going to end a debate that has been going on for centuries.

[keithbvadu2]

25. I was taught that God is all-powerful and knows all, past, present, and future.

I was taught that God is all-powerful and knows all, past, present, and future.

Your explanation denies that, resulting in a weak God.

[pnwmom]

26. What you were taught rests on a scientific and linear construction of past, present, and future.

The Catholic teachings about God aren't bound by those restrictions.

And even scientists are exploring other possibilities.

https://www.space.com/29859-the-illusion-of-time.html

Why is time controversial? It feels real, always there, inexorably moving forward. Time has flow, runs like a river. Time has direction, always advances. Time has order, one thing after another. Time has duration, a quantifiable period between events. Time has a privileged present, only now is real. Time seems to be the universal background through which all events proceed, such that order can be sequenced and durations measured.

The question is whether these features are actual realities of the physical world or artificial constructs of human mentality. Time may not be what time seems — this smooth unity without parts, the ever-existing stage on which all happenings happen.

SNIP

"What physics gives us," Price said, "is the so-called 'block universe,' where time is just part of a four-dimensional space-time … and space-time itself is not fundamental but emerges out of some deeper structure."

We sense an "arrow" or direction of time, and even of causation, he said, because our minds add a "subjective ingredient" to reality, "so that we are projecting onto the world the temporal perspective that we have as agents [in this environment]."

[keithbvadu2]

27. Love your long winded explanation that shows a weak God that does not know all and that science is m

Love your long winded explanation that shows a weak God that does not know all and that science is more powerful than a weak God.

[pnwmom]

28. That's not what I said. I'm sorry you're not capable of following my reasoning,

as stated in 3 simple, declarative sentences; or that of the philosophers in the article I linked to.

[keithbvadu2]

29. I believe that God is all-powerful and all-knowing; past, present. and future.

I believe that God is all-powerful and all-knowing; past, present. and future.

Do you?

[pnwmom]

31. I believe that the human construct of past, present, and future may be an illusion.

And so any idea of a contradiction between God's being all powerful and giving people free will disappears.

But, unlike you, I don't pretend to have proof of anything. That's why iwhat I have is called "faith" and "beliefs."

[keithbvadu2]

32. So, your answer is "No".

OK.

[pnwmom]

33. I've said all along I'm not a Calvinist, and the disagreement between Calvinists like you

and Catholics has existed for centuries and won't be resolved by a poster on DU.

[keithbvadu2]

34. Do all Catholics think that God is weak and incapable of understanding your concept of linear time?

Do all Catholics think that God is weak and incapable of understanding your concept of linear time?

[pnwmom]

35. I never said God was "weak." That was your conclusion based on your logic, not mine.

I don't believe God can be stuffed into a box made of human constructs.

And the billion Catholics around the world are an extremely diverse group, and I don't claim to speak for all of them.

[keithbvadu2]

36. You're doing fine.

You're doing fine.

You refuse to acknowledge that God is all-powerful/all-knowing.

Your own logic shows you believe God to be weak.

[pnwmom]

37. I don't accept your Calvinist definitions, so your conclusions are irrelevant. n/t

[keithbvadu2]

38. You're still doing fine.

You're still doing fine.

You refuse to acknowledge that God is all-powerful/all-knowing.

Your own logic shows you believe God to be weak.

[pnwmom]

39. Your logic based on your definitions and your personal understanding of God.

I refuse to try to stuff God into your little box.

[keithbvadu2]

40. You refuse to acknowledge that God is all-powerful/all-knowing.

[pnwmom]

41. I believe God is all powerful and all knowing and God has given people free will.

I don't accept your Calvinistic conclusion that this would mean God is weak. And I'm not going to let you browbeat me into converting to your belief system.

[keithbvadu2]

42. Was that so tough that it took so long to acknowledge

God as all-powerful and all-knowing; past, present, and future?

God knows the future and allows evil to be done with free/allowed will.

You call it free. I call it allowed.

Same exact result.

Until you acknowledged God as such, you were witnessing that God is weak in your eyes.

Glad you came around.

[pnwmom]

43. No, I don't accept your assertion that God is bound by human constructs of time,

a linear concept entailing a past, present, and future.

I think it is likely that the idea of past, present, and future is an ILLUSION, without any relevance to my beliefs about God.

But I'm resigned to the fact that this is too complicated an idea for you to grasp.

[keithbvadu2]

44. Doggone! Now you're backing down on believing that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.

Doggone! Now you're backing down on believing that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.

You cannot even give God credit for understanding the passage of time.

------------------------------------------------------
https://answersingenesis.org/god/how-much-does-god-know-about-future/

Our certainty about the future doesn’t come out of thin air. It is based upon the fact that God not only knows what will take place in the future but has revealed the key events to us so that we might have confident hope. Sadly, in recent years some leading pastors and theologians have challenged the idea that God has exhaustive knowledge of future events (an idea called “open theism”).

---------------

Because God is all-knowing, we can rest secure in his promise of a new heaven and new earth where there will be no more death and suffering (Isaiah 65:17–25). But how can those who reject God’s knowledge of the future be certain of these things?

Scripture clearly presents God as knowing the future exhaustively. He knows it because he created and oversees all things according to his own wise plan. In a world filled with death, suffering, uncertainty, and hopelessness, we can be certain of a secure future because the character of the God of creation guarantees it, and his knowledge of future events means nothing will ever catch him by surprise.

[pnwmom]

45. I told you. I understand Calvinist beliefs and I reject them. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

10. Not signing on to this.

The Pope, like everybody else, is doing the best he can within the contstraints everybody else is in.

[obamanut2012]

11. Catholics don't believe in predestination

Google Free Will and Timshel.

[milestogo]

3. Only two?

[pandr32]

4. Maybe he hopes to be rid of these two.

[shrike3]

30. They can speak the language?

Mind you, I have no idea why he sent only two. I'm just speculating.

[Wingus Dingus]

6. Hope they stay safe. Pope Francis, try talking to the head of

the Russian Orthodox Church.

[Kingofalldems]

14. I agree, although I don't think they recognize him.

[Ron Obvious]

13. I feel better already

[Raven]

15. Sarcasm aside, there are many devout Catholics in the war zone who will

take comfort and hope from the Pope's action. Let's at least not sniff at that as people who may not share their beliefs and who are sitting on the sidelines.

[anamnua]

16. Honourable sentiments from Pope Francis

However Putin’s reaction will be summed up by his hero, Stalin:

‘How many divisions does the Pope command?’

[pnwmom]

17. He, and other popular figures, can command millions of hearts and minds.

His words have the potential to be influential in countries like US and much of Europe. When members of Congress are deciding how much their constituents will care, they'll be paying attention to statements like the Pope's.