we may HAVE to go to war

[RussBLib]

The world has had enough of Putin. Enough of the bullies. Enough of the kleptocratic thugs. Enough of this fucked-up cyber warfare BS.

We cannot just let a democracy like Ukraine burn under relentless Russian bombardment.

And after we kick Russia's ass, perhaps we should remove them from the UN Security Council. Seize and crush their remaining military. Seize their nuclear weapons. Seize their oil and gas, or at the minimum, confiscate the money generated from oil and gas and give it to Ukraine for rebuilding.

Russia needs to learn to get along with its neighbors.

[AntiFascist]

1. "Seize their nuclear weapons"...

exactly what should be done, if possible, so that they can never try this again! At least keep them in a tight economic vice until this is done.

[SheltieLover]

11. Absolutely!

I've been advocating to bring Russia to its knees with sanctions & force them to 100% nuclear disarmanemt!

[WarGamer]

2. Grab your helmet and weapon, Private Russ!!

[LiberatedUSA]

61. Not until...

…R Lee Ermey’s ghost gets to do a Full Metal Jacket scene for the new recruits.

[WarGamer]

62. awesome movie.

[Sherman A1]

3. We may have to, but not yet and hopefully

not at all.

We are not just "letting a democracy like Ukraine burn under relentless Russian bombardment." We have imposed crippling sanctions, we have moved in large amounts of lethal military aid and we have a united Nato staring at the Russians. That ain't just nuthin'..

[RussBLib]

15. I hope not at all

I wonder what will be left after Russia is done with Ukraine? How many refugees? How many dead? These are horrible calculations.

[regnaD kciN]

4. Brave words...

...but I seriously doubt we'll be able to "kick Russia's ass" without them going full nuclear. And, even if you live outside of the blast range of a likely target, there's going to be little left of the U.S. to enjoy the triumph thereafter, unless you really relish the prospect of living in the middle of Mad Max.

[ShazzieB]

22. Exactly.

I don't know how people can ignore that inconvenient but VERY HUGE truth.

It might be different IF Putin wasn't crazier than a sack of rabid weasels. But he IS that crazy and he WILL use nukes if we give him the hint of an excuse. We can't take that risk. Not if we really care about the future of (any, not just human) life on this planet.

Anyone who doubts that needs to google "mutually assured destruction."

[xmas74]

54. I grew up next to Strike Zone Three.

MAD has always been in the back of my mind.

[Locrian]

53. thank you

I'm getting a little tired of some of the hyperbole.

[jimfields33]

5. I thought Ukraine was kickin butt.

I’ve read that here everyday. I don’t watch the news but it seems that Russia is losing according to numerous articles and OPs on DU. I hope we keep our noses out of it. 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan was enough for a lifetime.

[femmedem]

16. They're doing amazing but we are not getting the full context. Russia is still advancing.

Russia is suffering losses they never anticipated, but they have a deep bench and even if their advance is slower than they expected, they are still advancing. We don't know what losses Ukraine has suffered or how long they can hold out without heat, water, electricity.

I don't want to be a downer but I also think it's important that people (especially politicians and political appointees) understand that the morale-boosting Ukrainian tweets are only one side of this story.

Link to tweet

[RussBLib]

17. so is there no atrocity horrid enough?

sure we were at war for 20 years, but that was not a war with much effect outside of the Middle East. This is much different.

Ukraine is putting up a good fight, but they are grossly outnumbered.

[Skittles]

23. they ARE kicking ass

DOESN'T mean it will be enough

[Kingofalldems]

52. Is that sarcasm aimed at DU?

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

6. Seldon does such an opportunity come along...

Tell putin, NATO is going to cross the border & protect Ukraine.

Give putin some way to save face, something like reducing some of the sanctions, promise him Ukraine won't invade & seize parts of Russia to protect its border...Putin is going to have some problems at home when the full effect of the sanctions hits the working class.

[samnsara]

9. it wont work... im sure hes on a suicide mission

[samnsara]

7. ive been thinking the same thing.. we HAVE to stop him

..and once we take control of Russia we will return Ukraine to the people with a nice relocation bonus courtesy of putins EX slush fund....

[marie999]

26. How are we going to take control of Russia?

[USALiberal]

30. Magic!! Nt

[Celerity]

45. magical thinking is running riot here lately

[Torchlight]

49. "OK lol nt"

[rso]

8. War

Russia needs to pay war reparations to Ukraine for the damage done and the damage still to come.

[regnaD kciN]

10. By the way, for those who think we can just defeat and demilitarize Russia...

...and that everything will be hunky-dory, you might want to read this article first. Even a best-case scenario is going to come with its own serious dangers.

[BradAllison]

12. Lindsey Graham also like to throw bromides around about "kicking ass"

Seriously.....what company....

[snowybirdie]

13. You can't get the

Righties wear a mask to protect from disease. How can you get them to be drafted?

[Mr.Bill]

14. Absent from this thread

is what will China do while we are doing all of this?

[RussBLib]

20. true

China is still a paradox tied up in a conundrum.

[mahina]

19. Putin would be thrilled if we entered UKR territory.

He is bending over backwards to bait us.

Also, obviously, we are already in this fight and the war started years ago.

[mahina]

38. Yuck

Bye

[RussBLib]

43. ugly, isn't it? nt

[Happy Hoosier]

57. I don't think he'd be thrilled.

While it would feed his desire to make this a Russia vs. US conflict in a political sense. We now know with some certainty that his military is fucking clown show.

[Emile]

21. Whoopee we are all gonna die!

[RussBLib]

32. eventually, sure nt

[smirkymonkey]

41. Well, that eliminates some of the fear I have about my mid-year review with my

manager next week. Especially after the sarcastic email I sent him today. Anyone else finding themselves with a new-found "I don't give a shit anymore" attitude?

[Liberal In Texas]

24. Viet Nam taught us that we shouldn't be the world's police force.

If we or NATO are attacked, that's one thing. As much as I hate the news coming out of the Ukraine, we're doing all we should at the moment by supplying them with supplies and arms.

[RussBLib]

35. I hope it's enough

we went into Vietnam under bullshit pretenses.

I find it difficult to compare Vietnam with Ukraine

[marie999]

25. And how are we going to kick Russia's ass and seize its nuclear weapons?

[USALiberal]

29. The poster must have a plan! Nt

[RussBLib]

46. one can dream

we (the rest of the world) enter the war, we corner Putin, we capture several of his generals, we convince his military to stand the fuck down. We all know nukes are insane. No one will use them. The UN marches in and takes control of Russian nukes. We give ours up too. China? Well ... they like business.

The truth can be revealed.

The world is crying for some truth.

[Hoyt]

27. Yeah, just like we took Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

[USALiberal]

28. Lol, so you think it will really easy??

[RussBLib]

31. no, not at all

but with a united Europe and many other allies, it could be done.

[marie999]

40. How?

[sarisataka]

33. Right behind ya general

Riding my rainbow unicorn



We won't have to seize their weapons though. I'll bet a shiny penny Russia will be willing to deliver them

[RussBLib]

37. what is it about Russia?

why are they so warlike? I'm sure the Russian people are much like us: would like peace and prosperity for their families. It's their "leaders" or, at least, their top thugs that cause so much trouble.

The history between Ukraine and Russia is long and ugly.

[Warpy]

36. Their Afghan war, against a mostly disorganized enemy

with no real sense of being a country and little motivation to defend anyone from rival tribes, cost them enough lives to destabilize the USSR. It fell and Ukraine tasted 30 years of relative freedom, building its forces, training its population, and gaining a real sense of itself as a separate country.

Per Wikipedia, the Afghan war lasted 9 years with under 15,000 killed. In the first week of this war, the estimate is that about 5,000 Russian troops have been killed. They are fighting a force with superior training on their home turf and the slaughter is and will continue to be enormous. Russia and the SSRs had no stomach for the Afghan war. I doubt they will buy the propaganda for this one when those bodies start to be shipped home.

Ukraine is not going anywhere. If anything, this is their war for independence, and the Russian bloodletting will continue even as the Russians bomb buildings to rubble. It's just not going to work, not even if the entire Russian army is sent in to guard every single pile of rubble over a meter high. Ukrainians will eventually kick them out.

One hopes Putin will be satisfied with a neutral Ukraine without NATO troops and missiles on his doorstep sooner rather than later. If not, everyone else in Russia and in the Kremlin will lose their appetites for this war quickly. It is not only costing them too much, it is exposing their weaknesses rather badly. I'm hopeing all these factors make it short.

[lapfog_1]

39. seize their nuclear weapons... like this

[RussBLib]

42. I have often thought

that if the nukes do start falling, I hope I'm close to ground zero.

All we can do is hope that rational heads prevail. Or kill the crazy people?

War. Still.

[Chainfire]

44. The OP is right, there may come a time when we have to go to war with Russia

But, lets exhaust every other possibility before gambling with the fate of civilization. We can destroy the world any time we wish, but we won't be able to put it back together, ever.

[RussBLib]

48. well put

thank you. I really hope we can avoid a broad war.

But....

[relayerbob]

47. How exactly do you plan to do that?

[madville]

50. Saving Ukraine isn't worth sparking a nuclear war

We’re doing what we can right now, the correct way. Sparking WWIII and mutually assured destruction shouldn’t be on the table just to save Ukraine.

[Happy Hoosier]

56. What makes you think it would spark a nuclear war?

Because Pooty said so? WTF do you think he WANTS you to believe?

The Russians know a nuclear exchange is game over. They are no more anxious for it than us.

[madville]

63. It would lead to nowhere but escalation

Our sensible leaders know this, that’s why they are publicly against any such action.

[radius777]

51. Rule number one of war - hit the enemy's weakness - which we are doing.

Russia's greatest weakness is their economy and its' dependence on the West. We need to ramp up the sanctions to include oil/gas, which much of their (weak) economy is based upon. Make them a pariah state. Get real news somehow (via satellite, 5G, internet - however) to the population to let them know the truth about Putin's regime. IOW, get his own people to take him out.

Russia's greatest strength is their military and nuclear power. It would be foolish to confront them directly, especially to invade their homeland which would be certain to trigger nuclear war.

If he ever attacks NATO territory (very unlikely IMO, he's a coward) then we would be compelled to defend the alliance, likely in a non-escalatory way, to prevent nuclear war.

Our biggest failure vis a vi Russia/Putin was a failure of imagination. He played us, by getting the gullible/corrupt/traitorous to buy into his victimhood narratives, which prevented us from being more forceful about admitting countries like Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. Putin tested us by gradually compromising the borders of neighboring countries. It was a test run for what he is doing now. He knew nobody would defend Ukraine and is taking advantage. He will never attack a NATO nation as he knows it likely would be the end of him.

[former9thward]

55. They can't be made a pariah state when their ally is China.

The world's biggest country and 2nd biggest economy. Most countries in Asia and Africa, including India are ignoring the sanctions. Even Mexico will not participate. Yes, the U.S./Euro sanctions will hurt. But that can only go so far.

[Happy Hoosier]

58. One problem with that.

Can you think of a single example of economic sanctions putting an end to a war? Me neither. These are tough sanctions, but Putin is accountable to no one.

[radius777]

60. Russia is heavily intertwined with the West.

None of the other sanctioned countries in the past (Cuba, Iran) etc were to such a degree.

Russians, as others have noted, can indeed subsist without the West. They have enough oil and food to do so. China and India could help them etc. But life is more than just subsistance, but happiness. Russians have become just as pampered and consumerist as we are in the West - and they won't be happy with a closed off Soviet style existence. Putin is even criminalizing most of the media. Russians - especially young - won't accept this and IMO will rise up and demand regime change.

[Initech]

59. The bad thing is that Putin has us fighting each other.

So we're distracted while he declares war on the world.