General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo, about those Polish jets
We have already been supplying arms to UKR. Others in NATO have done the same.
Jets are just bigger arms, are they not?
Why are Stingers ok but Soviet-era Migs are not?
onecaliberal
(32,478 posts)blue sky at night
(3,242 posts)The House passed the bill that would set up the lend/lease so they could do it but once it went to congress guess who killed it? Speaking of killing .
OAITW r.2.0
(23,812 posts)WarGamer
(12,103 posts)If the jets were to take off from Germany into Ukrainian airspace, currently contested by Russia, NATO considers it an attack from a NATO nation on Russia.
I know the hypocrisy you speak of...
But that's the sticking point for NATO.
And I don't think Poland wants to be the nation that launches the jets into Ukraine.
It's a "hot potato".
EndlessWire
(6,373 posts)already do it? I thought that Ukraine sent their pilots to pick up jets parked in Poland.
It doesn't matter. We are kowtowing to Russia when we aren't even fighting boots on the ground. I think they should send the planes to Poland and bring in the Ukrainian pilots. That's the best we can do at this point. Poor Poland. But, they apparently are eager to receive F-16s.
If we do not beat Russia back, they will eventually be doing that false flag thing and pick a fight with NATO. We aren't getting out of this, and this question of how do we send planes to Ukraine will seem moot. Eventually, we will have to fly them over ourselves.
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)US intel feels this will be a long war.
They feel Putin is "all in"
Putin is shooting for the "big 4" negotiation targets, No NATO, No EU, Crimea gone and Eastern provinces independent.
Z says "GFY"... GTFO of our country and pay us reparations.
So with that kind of an impasse... Putin is going to drag this out, hoping the Ukrainians grow tired of the destruction.
He's going to surround Kiev, probably capture Kharkiv, Odessa and Mariupol...
And he's going to starve Kiev with a single exit left open. He wants as many people as possible to leave Ukraine for the EU.
It becomes a huge humanitarian crisis with 2, 3, 5 million Ukrainians in the EU...
IMHO, the utter failure of the Russian military forces in UKR makes it LESS likely that Putin would attack a NATO State.
EndlessWire
(6,373 posts)Wingus Dingus
(8,049 posts)to get them and fly them back to Ukraine? There's got to be someone who can fly them in.
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)No one wants to be the country that is the initial home airbase for that first flight into combat for those planes.
That's why Poland tried to pawn it off on Germany.
Mariana
(14,847 posts)They don't want to be the target of the first nukes to fly. Can't blame them, really.
LudwigPastorius
(8,943 posts)Meaning, they have to take off from somewhere, like a NATO base.
And if, on the way to their destination, a Russian plane attacks one of them and it shoots back, taking it out, that becomes "an airstrike from a NATO base on Russian forces".
And, that would be the beginning of a shooting war between two forces with enough nuclear weapons to kill everything on Earth bigger than a vole.
EndlessWire
(6,373 posts)If the planes are flat out given to a Ukrainian pilot, and that pilot flies home, then technically the plane is from Ukraine.
I want them to receive a few A-10 Wart Hogs. Let the Ukrainians have the Mig-25, 29s(?) and some Wart Hogs. Ukrainians can fly all of those, and it might make a big difference.
hardluck
(634 posts)They dont have pilots that are trained to fly them. Plus the A-10s would be sitting ducks without proper SEAD and CAP. Its just too contested an environment for them.
EX500rider
(10,518 posts)Just land first at a western Ukrainian air base before they go in combat