Thinking about the US denial to Poland of the transfer of Polish Mig-29 fighters to Ukraine...

[wcmagumba]

Wondering if this very public refusal to agree with Poland about the transfer of Mig-29 fighters to Ukraine by using a Nato airbase in Germany is really a giant "head fake" (to use a basketball term) by the US, Poland and Nato and the transfer of the fighter jets has already been planned/accomplished in another way. Giving deniability to the US and Poland about the risky implications of the transfer....Just a thought...feint within a feint...chess move....

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-surprised-polands-decision-give-it-fighter-jets-ukraine-2022-03-08/

[lapfog_1]

1. that would be good if true

but the fact remains that the shelling of the Ukraine cities is primarily coming from artillery and missile launchers, some of which are located in russia and belarus.

The Migs in question are primarily air to air combat aircraft, the Ukrainian military would need to find an airfield to operate from which is not going to be shelled immediately (one crater in the runway and the planes are grounded), and need to find jet fuel, ammunition, spare parts, mechanics, etc.


If they were A10 Warthogs (anti-tank aircraft) loaded for bear ( russian bear ) that would be a much more useful thing to have.

I appreciate the Ukraine is grasping at anything that might help, even if only symbolically... but the Migs are just not that useful right now.

Certainly not worth the risk of having a clearly disturbed, embarrassed, nuclear armed dictator decide that you just became part of the war.

[Tomconroy]

2. To me, it's an instance of where the White House, which had been leading

public opinion, has fallen behind public opinion.
Don't know if something is happening in secret.

[secondwind]

4. The Pentagon did this.....

who knows what the hell is going on….

[denbot]

5. Doesn't Mike Flynn have a flag officer brother in the Pentagon?

Would not be surprised..

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Charles Flynn commands the US Army in the Pacific. No point creating conspiracy theories

... out of thin air.

[Irish_Dem]

7. The Pentagon kicked Gen Charles Flynn out of DC and sent him to Hawaii.

He is commanding general of United States Army Pacific since June 4, 2021.

Hopefully he can't help his brother try to overthrow the US government from Fort Shafter, in Honolulu.

[markpkessinger]

11. Several outlets said that the Pentagon was "blindsided" by Poland's offer . . .

. . . which leads me to wonder if this boils down to some kind of intellectual turf war on the part of the Pentagon.

[Joinfortmill]

8. All I know is... Biden will do the right thing.

[TomWilm]

9. This very ill-considered plan would have directly involved NATO in an armed attack on Russia

The moment Ukrainian pilots fly these war planes, from an airfield in a NATO country into Ukraine, they would be met by Russian fighter jets - and this technically would be seen as an attack on Russia from NATO. There is no way to do this airfield to airfield.

Just as technically, the transfer would actually be possible and not directly involving NATO, if the war planes were put on trucks, and delivered by road!

[markpkessinger]

12. Anybody who thinks we are going to be able to finesse our way out of this . . .

. . . without some kind of direct military involvement is kidding themselves. Putin has already demonstrated that he will do whatever he wants, even on the flimsiest, most implausible pretexts.

[TomWilm]

18. You might look into what the word WW3 could mean for us all then

[markpkessinger]

19. I am well aware of the risks, thank you ...

. . . but what is the alternative? For the world to simply roll over every time Putin, or some other nuclear-armed despot decides to pursue his expansionist designs?

Neither Russians, nor, I believe, Putin, are suicidal, and launching a nuclear strike surely would be a suicidal act, as Putin and Russians well know. But Putin will happily exploit the West's fear of nuclear conflict to achieve his goals.

And it won't stop with Ukraine.

[TomWilm]

22. The alternative is NOT TO DESTROY OUR WORLD

All our best brains are put to work to find ways to do that suicide pact as smart as possible.

Your plan will killing us all. Which mean that ANY alternative is better.

Maybe time to stop and think?

[mitch96]

10. "a giant "head fake".. To me this has CIA written all over it..

Maybe they have better paint shops in Germany to apply UKR insignias to the MIG's?
m

[lame54]

13. Stealing Trump's plan

[markpkessinger]

14. It's possible, I suppose . . .

. . . but there is absolutely no evidence of that being the case, so at this point, it amounts to either idle speculation or wishful thinking.

[mitch96]

17. "either idle speculation or wishful thinking."...I'm an armchair general. That's what I do...

History is my guide.
Miss direction is the game. Think the ghost army across from Calais in WW2. The Nazis were sure the invasion was coming from that area.
Same with the Canadian hostage caper. A fake to take the eyes off the prize if you will..
m
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/visit/exhibits/traveling-exhibits/ghost-army-combat-con-artists-world-war-ii

[ruet]

15. What Would the Point of That Be?

Russia isn't going to notice that Ukraine has a bunch of new Mig-29's all of the sudden? Poland and the US, all the while, shrugging their shoulders.

[GoCubsGo]

16. You're not the only one to suggest this.

Randi Rhodes brought up something like this on her show today, as well. Except that she wondered if the Ukrainians already have the planes, but they want the Russians to believe otherwise, in order to conduct an ambush. But, she also said that Poland may just be afraid, as they could easily be the next target, and don't want to give Putin an excuse. I dunno. The only thing I do know is that we don't know the full story here.

[markpkessinger]

20. Poland made the offer . . .

. . . the U.S. declined it. This isn't about Poland's fear, but rather our own.

[Poiuyt]

21. Alexander Vindman has said that the plan is apparently dead

I trust his insight