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kentuck

(111,079 posts)
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 12:55 PM Mar 2022

Fear creates indecision.

NATO is hesitant to help Ukraine with more fighter jets because they are fearful of how Russia might react. Will Russia resort to a nuclear attack? The fear freezes them in place. And the situation gets worse by degree.

Just as in this country, the DOJ is frozen by fear about charging Donald Trump with any crimes. Will it only further divide the nation? Might it cause another civil war? And the situation worsens with each passing day. But everyone knows, something has to be done.

With the threat from Russia, we hope and expect that the military people in charge of nuclear weapons are talking with each other. We cannot make military moves until we have certain guarantees and assurances that a nuclear attack will not be triggered. There will be no winners in a nuclear attack.

But, sooner or later, both NATO and the DOJ will have to act. They will either have to take an emergency vote to permit Ukraine into NATO, in which case further attacks by Russia on Ukraine soil would be considered an attack upon NATO. If that does not work, then Poland's MIG-29s should be sent to Ukraine, even if they are sent thru Ramstein Air Base in Germany.

The channel with the people in charge of nuclear weapons must always remain open.

Putin must understand that NATO will act. He should have no doubt. They must stop their aggression and move back to within their own borders.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fear creates indecision. (Original Post) kentuck Mar 2022 OP
The GOP and Putin use fear as weapon to control people. Irish_Dem Mar 2022 #1
Agreed. there is also this weird dance of semantics around what Putin would consider an "act of war" NewHendoLib Mar 2022 #2
Damn the torpedoes...Full speed ahead! world wide wally Mar 2022 #3
I'm kind of heading towards that point too. Crunchy Frog Mar 2022 #28
In a confrontation like this.... Happy Hoosier Mar 2022 #4
True. kentuck Mar 2022 #5
You can't possibly know what the top people at the DOJ are thinking. Hortensis Mar 2022 #6
But you can? kentuck Mar 2022 #7
But you don't get to create your own facts any more than Fox and tRump do. nt Hortensis Mar 2022 #8
Seriously? You have no idea like the rest of us what motivates the DOJ nor what they are doing. Budi Mar 2022 #9
I suppose I am confused as to what can be discussed in General Discussion. kentuck Mar 2022 #10
No one says Exempt the DOJ from criticism Budi Mar 2022 #14
Can you not say it is a "bit of a stretch" without personal attacks? kentuck Mar 2022 #15
Bye. Budi Mar 2022 #17
Good Bye. kentuck Mar 2022 #19
Its not a personal attack. Your insult to the DOJ being frozen in fear was a dramatic headine ripe. Budi Mar 2022 #20
An insult to the DOJ? kentuck Mar 2022 #22
The eyeroll was in your choice of wording. Budi Mar 2022 #23
That was not my headline?? kentuck Mar 2022 #25
And Neville Chamberlain was very concerned about what Hitler would do if he was Biophilic Mar 2022 #11
Two points sarisataka Mar 2022 #12
Nobody has to do anything. kentuck Mar 2022 #13
Should? As humans compassionate for our fellows sarisataka Mar 2022 #16
One of the biggest mistakes after WWI was how the world treated the defeated Germans. kentuck Mar 2022 #18
Agreed, Versailles made sure WW2 sarisataka Mar 2022 #21
The more we hesitate, the more dangerous he becomes. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #24
I think that is correct. kentuck Mar 2022 #26
Putin is clearly planning to keep rolling. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #27
??? sheshe2 Mar 2022 #29

NewHendoLib

(60,014 posts)
2. Agreed. there is also this weird dance of semantics around what Putin would consider an "act of war"
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 01:09 PM
Mar 2022

If Putin wants to call lots of what is already being done "war", he will. Is there actually a hard fast line where he will say "this is war, this is not"? Are we not watching what is happening and possibly considering that this is NOT war crimes?

I know there is a fog of war - I know that the videos and news plays on our emotions - we are human.

But....are we really going to just wait out Russia before we do more to help? Are we going to continue to watch people get slaughtered?

Sometimes, I am just embarrassed for our species. (Often, more accurately).

Same thing is happening here in the US with respect to TFG. He gets handled with kid gloves - his broad daylight crimes go unpunished? Why?

It all makes me sick.

Happy Hoosier

(7,295 posts)
4. In a confrontation like this....
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 01:13 PM
Mar 2022

It's good to display prudence. It's terrible to display fear.

Be deliberate in one's actions. But NEVER look like the reason for holding back is fear.

Biden has done a good job here EXCEPT for this, IMHO. At times it looks like the U.S. is a little too driven by a fear of confrontation.

Bullies use fear as a primary weapon.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
5. True.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 01:17 PM
Mar 2022

It looks like they are just throwing something on the wall to see if anything sticks. If the US wants to be a part of NATO, then they have a shared responsibility. They need to find a way to get the MIGS to Ukraine.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. You can't possibly know what the top people at the DOJ are thinking.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 01:50 PM
Mar 2022

Literally. They're not telling anyone.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
9. Seriously? You have no idea like the rest of us what motivates the DOJ nor what they are doing.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:00 PM
Mar 2022

How is it you know this to be fact?
"Frozen by fear".
Stop it. OK? You don't actually know this.
I appreciate the DOJ NOT advertising every plan they have.
Doubt they were 'frozen by fear' when they brought down Enrique Tarrio.


"Just as in this country, the DOJ is frozen by fear about charging Donald Trump with any crimes"

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
10. I suppose I am confused as to what can be discussed in General Discussion.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:15 PM
Mar 2022

I was under the general impression that it was mostly comments and opinions?

If we are looking for "facts", we can always read the LBN.

But, I do not believe the DOJ should be exempt from criticism. Hopefully, they will prove us wrong.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
14. No one says Exempt the DOJ from criticism
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:37 PM
Mar 2022

To accuse the DOJ of being 'Frozen in Fear' of Trump is just a bit of a stretch considering that the AG of the DOJ is under the appointment of President Biden.

Actually the diss that our DOJ is acting out of 'fear', without source or proof nor knowledge of the business of the DOJ behind closed doors, is following in line with the armchairing on social media.

"Yesterday I was a Foreign Policy expert, Today I'm an expert on the Dept of Justice!. Tomorrow's anybody's guess"..



kentuck

(111,079 posts)
15. Can you not say it is a "bit of a stretch" without personal attacks?
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:41 PM
Mar 2022

I can accept that.

I do not claim to be an "expert" on anything. I give my opinions. If you do not wish to read them, you can block them. My feelings will not be hurt.

It's your decision.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
19. Good Bye.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:55 PM
Mar 2022


You could have said that from the start without personal attacks and people could accept your comments as having merit or not.

That's the point of a discussion group.
 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
20. Its not a personal attack. Your insult to the DOJ being frozen in fear was a dramatic headine ripe.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:00 PM
Mar 2022

...ripe for Politico style drama gotcha headers for clicks & profit.
And it is without proof nor source.


You'll recover.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
22. An insult to the DOJ?
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:22 PM
Mar 2022

Really?

I doubt that I am the only person that might think they are fearful of charging Trump or many of his associates. I might think we have been too patient with the DOJ. You have the right to disagree. I might think justice delayed is justice denied. After all, it has been over 14 months since the attack upon our Capitol. Some might think they are moving rather slowly, under the circumstances. You might disagree. There might be a new Congress after November and the Committee and the investigation could come to an end? But, that would be no reason to criticize the DOJ. They did their best.

Again, this is General Discussion. It is not required to have sources or proof in order to comment or express an opinion.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
23. The eyeroll was in your choice of wording.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:32 PM
Mar 2022

"DOJ FROZEN IN FEAR OF TRUMP"

Frozen in fear
You know this how?

Ignore...

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
25. That was not my headline??
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:39 PM
Mar 2022

And I never put it in CAPS?

I can only assume you do not think they are fearful of prosecuting Trump and his associates?

It never crossed their mind that it might create more division in the country, perhaps even a civil war?

Time will tell, I suppose?

Biophilic

(3,647 posts)
11. And Neville Chamberlain was very concerned about what Hitler would do if he was
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:16 PM
Mar 2022

denied what he wanted. Negotiating from fear is not a useful strategy.

sarisataka

(18,621 posts)
12. Two points
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:25 PM
Mar 2022

NATO doesn't have to do anything. Ukraine is not a member, NATO has no obligation to defend or admit them.

I think you are suggesting the general in charge of nuclear weapons in the US and Russia are maintaining back channel communications to prevent nuclear war even if ordered to launch an attack. While certainly noble and beneficial to the world as a whole, wouldn't those generals be committing treason against their respective countries?

sarisataka

(18,621 posts)
16. Should? As humans compassionate for our fellows
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:49 PM
Mar 2022

We should. Countries however have very different risk analysis than individuals. The wrong move can turn a minor incident into a world war e.g.1914

Also this is merely one of many conflicts in the world. Most have been going on longer and several have more deaths and destruction. Should we make all of them NATO members?



Larger countries could intervene in all of these but the track record of imposing peace has not been good for the last several decades.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
18. One of the biggest mistakes after WWI was how the world treated the defeated Germans.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 02:51 PM
Mar 2022

We must be careful not to treat the Russian people in a similar manner.

sarisataka

(18,621 posts)
21. Agreed, Versailles made sure WW2
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:09 PM
Mar 2022

Was all but inevitable. I have seen too many posts already about the harsh terms we should dictate to Russia after their inevitable capitulation.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
26. I think that is correct.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:45 PM
Mar 2022

In my opinion, we should not be telling Putin what we will or will not do.

Also, I think we are already at war. If he is permitted to take Ukraine, there is no reason to believe he will stop there. History gives us direction if we only read it.

But some decisions can be very painful. That is why they are so hard to make.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
27. Putin is clearly planning to keep rolling.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:47 PM
Mar 2022

Not a very effective plan, so far, but that is definitely his plan.

sheshe2

(83,746 posts)
29. ???
Thu Mar 10, 2022, 12:26 AM
Mar 2022
Just as in this country, the DOJ is frozen by fear about charging Donald Trump with any crimes. Will it only further divide the nation?


Please explain how the DOJ is frozen in fear. TY.
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