I am not a General. I am not an Intelligence expert.

[MineralMan]

For those reasons, I am going to abstain from telling President Biden what he should be doing about Russia's assault on Ukraine.

It appears to me that he is engaged, informed, and thoughtful in his approach to the problem. I'm pretty sure he is trying to avoid an escalation that would involve nuclear weapons.

So, I'm going to watch and see what happens, knowing that intelligent adults with access to both Generals and Intelligence experts are making the decisions.

I suggest following that course of action to all who are neither Generals nor Intelligence experts.

[COL Mustard]

1. Me either

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[MineralMan]

2. LOL!

[TheBlackAdder]

27. I'm not any, but holy fuck, it looks like any clown could have done an invasion better than Putin.

[MineralMan]

42. Well, it certainly demonstrates that the Russian military isn't

as good as most people thought. That's a plus. Putin has had to fire some Generals, and four others have been killed in Ukraine. That has to be a little sobering for Putin, I'd think, and gives NATO a couple of useful clues, as well.

[Kaleva]

3. I'll support whatever Biden and his team decide

They may be wrong or they may be right but Biden and his team of advisors are a heck of a lot more qualified to make decisions based on what they know then I am.

[nightwing1240]

53. Completely agree with the above

I support President Biden. I do fear for the people of Ukraine and other European nations.

[TexasBushwhacker]

84. And the experts of our NATO allies n/t

[Kaleva]

102. Yes

[FalloutShelter]

4. I agree 100%

Just maybe we don’t need Vlad to know all of our plans?
Joe knows what he’s doing.

[BlackSkimmer]

5. K and r.

Never knew we had so many military experts on this forum until recently!

[MineralMan]

6. Thanks. You're right. Apparently there's lots of hidden talent here.

Or something...

[BlackSkimmer]

10. Yes, and many seem to have recently found their way to our esteemed board.

Lots of new experts along with the old.

Suffice it to say, I’m glad President Biden is in charge.

[Kaleva]

8. Risk has always been a popular game.

[BlackSkimmer]

16. True!

[MineralMan]

43. Indeed!

[paleotn]

48. You'd actually be surprised who reads this forum.

[BlackSkimmer]

95. Lol, no doubt.

[live love laugh]

101. Never knew we had so many DOJ "experts" either.

[Wounded Bear]

7. MAGATs and republicans need not apply...

Nice to have some adults in charge again.

[Wingus Dingus]

9. You make posts saying the same thing over and over.

Weird.

[Kaleva]

11. Some here may have not seen the others

Not all of us can be here every day.

[MineralMan]

12. So I do. I believe it is worthwhile to do so.

I don't think it's weird, though. So, please tell me what you think is weird about it.

[Wingus Dingus]

15. It's the daily reminder that we don't know anything

and we should just trust Biden. I think we got it, dude. And most of us will continue our discussions anyway.

[MineralMan]

44. Actually, I was admitting that I didn't know enough to offer advice.

I don't know. Maybe you are better informed about military and intelligence matters than I am.

[Wingus Dingus]

45. Was anyone looking to you for advice, or were we just discussing the biggest, most consequential

story of our current times on a forum exactly intended for such matters? What level of hubris makes one think their posts on a message board matter in the larger scheme of things? No US military policy will be borne of DU spitballing, so you can relax.

[MineralMan]

46. I note that you, too, are posting here.

I don't know if anyone is looking to me for advice. Some people seemed to like this thread, though, so...

You read my post and replied to it, so there's that, as well.

Do I think my posts matter? Not so much. Like you, I post on DU because it exists. I started a discussion, and you participated in that discussion.

Cool, huh?

[Wingus Dingus]

47. It is super cool.

[onenote]

73. Glad to see that you are going to stop speculating. Hope others follow your lead.

[Wingus Dingus]

83. I'll never stop speculating, giving my opinion, sharing news,

participating in discussions, and pushing back against dumb posts.

[Scrivener7]

85. Seems logical, given that this is a discussion board.

[Wingus Dingus]

86. Right? LOL.

[USALiberal]

18. Weird that it bothers you! nt

[BlackSkimmer]

19. Most people here do.

Pay closer attention. You might be surprised.

[USALiberal]

30. Like you??

[kentuck]

13. If we substitute...

Biden with Putin, it makes more sense.

Don't you think that is the line the Russian people are hearing?

Just saying.

[wnylib]

59. No. I think the lines that Russian

people are hearing from their leaders are pure BS. I do not think that is the case with Biden, and apparently all of Europe (except Belarus and Russia) agree with Biden, as well as several nation's outside of Europe.

Gives Biden a lot of credibility for what he is doing and how he is handling this.

Just sayin'.

[kentuck]

89. I think Biden has done a great job of bringing NATO and our allies together in this crisis.

Also, I doubt that Putin believed it was possible after the last 5 years.

I believe the people of Russia believe Putin the same way the cult believes Trump. Everything else is "fake news".

I have no evidence but I do not think Putin cares a whole lot for Joe Biden. In all probablility, he may have been behind Trump's effort to find dirt on Joe Biden in Ukraine before his last impeachment? I don't know that for a fact but it is my opinion.

[XacerbatedDem]

116. I agree. Thank goodness for Biden's measured response...

Though I wish there was more we could do.

[Walleye]

14. Millions of amateur epidemiologists, have overnight become expert amateur military analysts

Amazing the flexibility of the human brain

[AZSkiffyGeek]

24. Don't forget Constitutional lawyers as well

There are quite a few who also have that background in addition to their military and infectious disease expertise.

[Walleye]

28. Damn with all these experts we should be able to get something right

[USALiberal]

31. +1000

[Sympthsical]

32. You didn't know Twitter is the Matrix?

You just download tweets about the issue of the day and, boom, you know kung fu.

At least I'm guessing that's how twitter works based on observation.

[Walleye]

33. It seems that more information actually leads to more ignorance

[Sympthsical]

38. It's more like watching TV

Which is how we treat news and many are treating this war. It's just the latest streaming show they're binging. Then everyone goes online with their ships and fan theories.

"I think Melissa should stay with Nathan!" becomes "I think Poland should release the MiGs!" What does it mean? Who knows. Few know what's actually involved in any of this. They just want their preferred story lines to play out, so they post random pixelated bric a brac to promote them.

I have my favorites. Usually armchair psychologists who probably need to spend a session or two on the therapy couch themselves. The military strategists and PhD's in history are up there, though. "It's just like Hitler!" Source: I had history channel on in the background that one time.

Once you find the behavior entertaining, social media become a lot more tolerable.

[Walleye]

39. Yes I admit I do get a kick out of it sometimes, I have a warped sense of humor

[BlackSkimmer]

117. As always, you say it so much better than I.

Spot on.

[wnylib]

66. As the saying goes -

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[dumbcat]

36. And International Law experts

thinking that capturing a deactivated nuclear reactor constitutes NUCLEAR WAR and a WAR CRIME!

[Walleye]

37. Forgot about that, I can hardly keep up

[treestar]

93. criminal law and procedure experts also

who know who to prosecute and when.

I had Dad and uncles like that. They knew everything and what ought to be done in every case. Even said they knew their bodies better than doctors (so doctors should do as they said rather than as doctors advised them :rofl . Also perfectly willing to tell lawyers what they should do and what the law was.

[scipan]

97. How about we all preface our posts with "IANAE"

I am not an expert. But I personally thought that was understood.

[XanaDUer2]

113. Lol thanks for the laugh

I had a shitty day

[scipan]

114. ....

[boston bean]

17. I love Joe Biden and I think he is doing a very good job.

However, that doesn’t mean I don’t have the absolute right to question something.

Your type of thinking is quite authoritarian.

Thanks but no thanks.

[Bettie]

40. Also, having an opinion on a message board

is not even close to "telling Joe Biden what he should do".

Last I checked, we're all allowed to say "I think thing x could be handled with Y or Z".

[wnylib]

82. Sure, anyone's allowed to say that.

It doesn't mean that they have expertise in the area, or full knowledge of the situation. So, I guess it's allowed for some people to point that out, too.

[Bettie]

96. I don't recall anyone here ever claiming to have

expertise in that area.

Well, there is one poster who claims to know each and every person of influence in the Democratic party. There are a few lawyers, a bunch of health care providers of various types, but otherwise, no one claims to be an expert.

With regard to Ukraine, for example, we're people who feel empathy for others and want to see them helped. But, I guess to some, that is terrible.

[wnylib]

103. Why do you think that, to some people,

it is terrible to feel empathy for others or to want to see them helped?

Or do you just use hyperbole to make false claims about people?

[Bettie]

106. Some people scold every day

for posting opinions, they go to great lengths to tell everyone who isn't them to sit down and shut up.

Think what you want, I'm not the thought police. I know what my intentions are and sometimes I get really tired of hearing how no one is to say anything unless they are an "expert".

The funny thing is that no one with any power actually cares what any of us thinks.

There is zero "pressure" or coercion on a single person who has the power to do anything about anything from a post on DU. Ever. But it is nice to talk to others who have similar frustrations.

[wnylib]

107. Nice dodge

[XacerbatedDem]

118. I think it needs repeating here...

How about we attack the idea rather than the person? Du invites discussion, not abuse. It seems that should be important, but for some, it's not.

Some people come here to learn or verify some of the ideas they have seen elsewhere on line. And yet, when they ask a question or try to figure things out, they get jacked by how they posed the question or post. Well, I hate too say this but, and especially in my case, I am not as intelligent as some here. And I doubt I'm alone in feeling this way. But I'll tell you, I learn more from people who explain things rather than insult me, and explain with kindness instead of attitude.

I have learned so much from the articles and posts here at DU, reaffirmed some long held beliefs, learned about things that I never even realized were going on in America and kept up on some of the news stories that really interest me. Still trying to learn how to post; admittedly not very good at it, but I would like to contribute in a way that makes things better here, not start fights or alienate people.

end of rant

[xocetaceans]

51. Good call on the authoritarian nature of that OP. You're right: "Thanks but no thanks." n/t

[MineralMan]

64. Authoritarian? I said what I'm doing and SUGGESTED

that as a course of action for others. I have zero authority over anyone.

[treestar]

92. that's rigidly black and white thinking

Trusting Biden to know what he is doing is not the same as following him in an authoritarian manner.

We can question what Biden is doing but keep in mind we don't know what he knows. We can trust him to know what he is doing on an issue without saying we would obey whatever he says.

The posts the OP is pushing back on are likely the type that we often see on DU, to the effect that Biden (or any D president) should be doing something else and that if they are not they are in the pockets of the oligarchs, corporatists, etc. and thus discouraging D turnout.

[paleotn]

56. Bingo.

The denizens of this forum are a rather diverse group in my experience. In the areas of epidemiology, constitutional law to warfare, some here do have real life experience in those lanes.

[wnylib]

78. I find it just the opposite of authoritarian.

We elected Joe Biden to represent us on the world scene as well as domestically. I know that for many people, voting for Biden was an anti Trump statement. But for many of us, we recognized that Biden's years of experience are just what is needed in these times.

We chose him in a free democratic election.

There is nothing wrong with respecting the ability of well qualified people to know what they are doing.

Telling Biden how to handle this situation reminds me of covid patients demanding that their doctors give them Ivermectin when they end up in the hospital after following the advice of people with no medical expertise.

Calling it authoritarian to trust in the capabilities of Biden and his advisors is like the anti vax and anti mask people calling medical emergency reponses a violation of their freedoms.

Sometimes there really are people in charge who know more than we do and know what they are doing much better than we do.

Of course we have our own reactions to and opinions about events based on what we know, but what we know in this case is not likely to be the whole story. If it was, I would have serious concerns about our security and intel agencies.

[Scrivener7]

20. Posting on DU does not constitute "telling President Biden what he should be doing."

Posting on DU is posting on DU. Any thought that it is anything else is either delusion or ego gone amok.

"Suggesting" over and over and over that others should not post opinions on DU that may not jive with one's own is simply an attempt to assert an authority that no poster here has. Though many appear to believe they do.

[kentuck]

22. Thought control.

Soon, you don't even think about it...

[Scrivener7]

25. Well... more like "get off my lawn" stuff, but I get your point.

[paleotn]

69. Think? What's that?

I let my overlords do all that for me. Saves time and effort. Less brain hurt.

[jaxexpat]

76. I don't need to think. I'm married.

[fescuerescue]

100. This

Sometimes I think that some folks really over value the value of random internet postings.

[cilla4progress]

21. Seriously...

no need for mockery.

This is a discussion board, is it not?

So, we discuss.

[Autumn]

23. I'll alert the media. I would like links to see which DUers are claiming to be Generals or

Intelligence experts so as to avoid them in the future, but I doubt there are any.

But yes, President Biden is doing a great job. In the meantime I think we can discuss the war knowing that intelligent adults with access to both Generals and Intelligence experts are making the decisions and not people on small political message boards.

[nightwing1240]

70. What you may not realize

is that if you disagree, question the OP or suggest something other than he suggests that makes you an "expert".

No such claim was made on my part in suggesting "patience" regarding the situation in Ukraine is what is most needed. Patience is simple when you aren't the people being invaded and bombed by an evil aggressor that has targeted women and children.

I am far from a military expert or General or leader of any nation but it is not difficult to say something like this is deplorable and cannot be accepted.

[Autumn]

80. Some people won't be content till they are the only one posting about anything

I have seen no one here claiming to be an expert. And I agree with you 100% on everything you posted. Wrong is wrong and it doesn't take any so called leader or a fucking expert to tell a person what is right or wrong.

"I am not an Intelligence expert" covers it all.

[nightwing1240]

88. Thank you Autumn!

""I am not an Intelligence expert" covers it all."

lol I could not agree more!

[Voltaire2]

109. I'm a general and an intelligence expert.

[Diablo del sol]

26. Lol, did I miss the election where you were elected King?

So on a discussion board, you feel comfortable, actually entitled, to request other posters have your same opinions.

[USALiberal]

29. Yes

[onecaliberal]

35. No discussion on a discussion board? 🤷‍♀️

[Sympthsical]

34. Most people aren't qualified to discuss most things by that rubric

Discussion is discussion. Participate. Don't. Whichever. Any subject you're slightly knowledgeable about rapidly becomes a shitshow on social media when people authoritatively hold forth on topics when they clearly have no idea what they're on about.

If reduced to what we're qualified to discuss, it'd end up being meandering stories about going to grocery store.

And while thrilling, I don't know why I'd ever want to type that sort of thing out.

[Calculating]

41. If people only discussed stuff they were qualified to talk about

We'd be making nothing but small talk. I mean, I'm not technically qualified to talk about Covid, Climate, War, international matters, etc, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on what's right to do. Seems like the 'experts' have led our world into a lot of messes lately.

[druidity33]

104. This is spot on. Nail. Head. Bam! nt.

[llashram]

49. ++

[getagrip_already]

50. I'm no expert, but...

I'm relatively sure we likely have boots on the ground there, although we will never hear about it, even if there are casualties.

This is what seal teams were born to do. Slip into an environment undetected, and wreak chaos on an enemy without being officially there. They are trained to scramble communications, inflict pin-point damage with the greatest possible impact, and generally be big pains in the arsky.

I have to believe we have people doing just that. This is what superpowers do. This is what we did when the rusians were in Afghanistan.

But of course I am unqualified to say that. But, I said it anyway. Tough keyboards.

[MineralMan]

54. That's certainly possible. But I don't know whether it is so or not.

I'm not actually sure what their mission would be at this stage, though.

[getagrip_already]

57. disrupt command and control, sniper action, help direct anti-tank fire.....

All kinds of things they can do in small teams without being a large division.

If they aren't doing that, than the ukraine army is doing a damn good job of it on their own.

[MineralMan]

60. Sometimes, the military can use outside intelligence

to help them make decisions. I'm sure they're getting some of that from us. As for people on the ground inside Ukraine, I don't know, and I shouldn't know, I think.

[jaxexpat]

90. "....the ukraine army is doing a damn good job of it on their own."

This appears to be a very true statement. I wonder, how much, if any, "technical training" they get and what is their method? If these guys are doing as well as they apparently are, then why does funding the US military require such an astronomical portion of the national GDP?

One should go on trusting in the greater wisdom and knowledge of people in positions of great responsibility, I suppose. Nobody will answer that question honestly, anyway.

[paleotn]

52. Questioning authority bad?

Sorry, I have a brain and experience in certain matters. I know from experience how some things work. And I don't do lock step, though I do acknowledge our president is vastly better informed than me. Thus, I do defer to his and his advisor's judgement, but that doesn't mean I keep may damn mouth shut at all times like some fucking robot. Sorry, Americans just ain't wired that way. And that's a good thing more times than it's not.

[ashredux]

62. Ok...but YOU do NOT have the intelligence...period.

[paleotn]

65. Sure about that?

On an anonymous message board? Probably not, but can you say that for sure? And did you actually read my response fully? Apparently not.

[ashredux]

81. You don't. Period. And you do not know who I am either.

[femmedem]

55. Do you similarly object to posting videos with people like Vindman who think we should do more?

What about Zelensky? Do you object to posting his videos or statements, too? What about Ted Lieu?

Is it ok to discuss our energy policies? Covid? Just trying to understand what you think is and isn't appropriate to discuss on a political discussion board.

[MineralMan]

58. No, I do not object to that. He has valuable insights.

I'm also in favor of discussing just about any topic. What I do not favor is broad statements about what our government or military should be doing, when they are made by people who clearly do not know anything about military operations.

I have noticed many posts that more or less say, "We must go in to fight in Ukraine." Or, "Biden needs to do this."

I like expert opinions on Ukraine and other matters. I'm not so fond of bold demands made by people who don't have a clue.

[Scrivener7]

63. Well. Now we are all up to date on your preferences.

[MineralMan]

67. OK. Thanks for reading my post.

You needn't do that if you're not interested in what I have to say. Nobody's demanding that you read what I write.'

However, you're welcome to read my posts and reply to them. That's why I post on a discussion board, after all.

[Scrivener7]

72. Just as you don't need to read the posts discussing the Ukraine war that you chastise each day.

[paleotn]

61. Of course not!

You should let our Democratic overlords tell you what to think. The cooking and pet threads may have some activity around here, but beyond that, we should all keep our fucking mouths shut. No typing!!

[dwayneb]

68. Agree - but we should strive to be as informed and knowledgeable as possible

I completely agree that Biden is listening to the CIA and his Generals as any good President should. And in that regard I generally trust him to arrive at the optimal decision, and not the politically convenient decision.

However with that being said we must be careful not to place any President on a pedestal and assume they are not going to make a blunder in judgement. We have to realize that they are fallible humans, just like you and me.

It does not hurt to speculate, analyze and discuss among ourselves about the war in Ukraine. Personally I am going back and taking a deep dive into WW1 and WW2 to more thoroughly understand what led up to the wars and how they proceeded.

I think it is every citizen's civic duty to educate ourselves about the history of the USSR and of Russia and how we got to the scenario we are in today.

[suncat]

71. I am so thankfull that Joe Biden is in control now

instead of TFG. I can't even imagine what Trump would have done in our current circumstances, but I'm sure it wouldn't have included bringing NATO to concensus, exercising discretion as to what is said publically about US policy or intentions, all while showing calm and confident leadership that cares about us and Ukranians.

As for what happens next, I am sure it will be the result of very carefully thought out military plans, intended to bring about the least damage necessary to work toward stabilization. I have to remind myself of that once in a while though, when I see a bomb hurt people, because I have a natural reaction that wants to protect the victims.

[MineralMan]

75. Yes, absolutely.

That is truly fortunate. May it long continue!

[fishwax]

74. I'm not going to abstain from telling President Biden what he should be doing any more than I would

abstain from telling the head coach of the an NBA team how he should handle substitutions at the end of a game. I simply don't have the means to do either of those things. I might express my opinion on a message board, though, and have no problem with others doing the same, even when their opinions and perspectives are different from mine--or, for that matter when their desired course of action is different from that which Biden is taking.

Personally I trust Biden to handle this as well as it can possibly be handled. But this is a horrible and horrifying situation, and not everyone (even among those who favor Biden more generally and are not simply acting in bad faith political opposition) is going to assess the balance of the situation in the same way. I'm okay with that.

I think those who want us to be more aggressive in our response should be wary of calling into question the morals or character of those counseling and practicing restraint, and that those who want us to continue walking this particular tightrope should be wary of calling into question the morals or character of those who, in good faith, assess the risks differently.

[SheltieLover]

77. I trust Joe & his team to do the best they can. 100%

Nobody can ever demand more than the best one has to offer.

Also, we are not close to being privy to all the intel he & his team have.

[waterwatcher123]

87. Seems unlikely anyone here telling Biden or the military how to manage this military conflict.

My read of most of the posts about Ukraine is that they express anguish over a clearly immoral and inhuman act of violence by a dictator. I have personally written to the White House multiple times, mainly questioning why they do not provide air defense systems like has been provided in the past to Japan and Israel (Patriot Air Defense System or its equivalent). I forwarded a very respectful note to the White House again yesterday asking if they have considered using the fake military equipment ideas that came out of WWII (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/wwii-ghost-army). They have probably considered all these ideas. But, it does not hurt to raise them repeatedly so they follow through on efforts already be underway (government is notorious for not following through in my opinion). I have also donated to World Central Kitchen and written to Duetsche Bank as simple acts that anyone who cares can do of their own volition.

It seems dangerous to try and squelch anyone from expressing their opinion or anguish about the events in Ukraine. There are plenty of examples where individuals come up with great ideas for how to solve humanitarian or military problems. There are also lots of historical examples where military and government leaders have failed or responded in disastrous ways (case in point would be the attack on Iraq by Bush and Company). I much prefer a government that is led by its people, regardless of how messy or cacophonous they sound. Expressing concern or anguish is decidedly better than silence or indifference.

[48656c6c6f20]

91. Abstaining from democratic processes seems like an excellent idea.

Ask Russia about it, worked out for them

[Kaleva]

105. We all voted

And put into the White House and extremely qualified person to lead us and the world through this.

[48656c6c6f20]

108. Wow if that's all there is to it then bravo.

Your civic duty is complete.

[Kaleva]

110. So what are you doing?

Posting on the Internet, using a fake name, like everyone else here?

[Voltaire2]

111. It's the male side of 'having a baby'.

One small input. Then just carry on.

Or maybe it’s post industrial consumer democracy. We subscribe to a team and then watch the season on YouTube.

[Kaleva]

112. Do you think public policy ought to be influenced..

by people who know next to nothing about the subject matter? Like men should be allowed to have input what women can do with their bodies?

[Voltaire2]

115. I think we ought to publicly discuss all

issues, and that everyone should express their opinions.

[Sunsky]

94. I don't think we have the ear of the president either

ALL of us are just stating our opinions on a discussion board. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not that serious. Presidents I have loved and respected have made good and bad choices because they are human beings like the rest of us. Oftentimes there is even a difference of opinion among these experts. I'm sure President Biden is doing what he believes to be best though.

[Happy Hoosier]

98. I think he is doing pretty well overall, but...

I’m not a huge a fan of telling enemies what you will not do in these cases. I don’t see any advantage to it.

[fescuerescue]

99. I talked to Biden and he breathed a sigh of relief

His phone has been ringing off the hook from advice givers.