my adult daughter is extremely concerned about covid & how it will effect people physically in the

[orleans]

long run if they had covid at some point

she sends me links from doctors about studies & research. she has a toddler that can't get the vaccine. she's upset that people are "over it" and she's worried about her little family. she feels extremely restricted regarding where she can go or where she can take the baby. go for a stroll in the mall? no way. take the baby to the park? infrequently and only if there aren't too many people and the kids are "over there" and not around the baby. restaurant? no fucking way.

she went to a garden center last summer when the baby was about six months old. but people were masked then. now? mandate's over, hardly anyone is masked. i think she feels less safe now taking her kid out then she did last year. (and i don't blame her--i'd feel the same way)

her mother-in-law had covid (before vaccines were available), she was hospitalized for a couple months, had a covid related stroke (according to her doctors), it triggered dementia (or accelerated it), and it's gotten a lot worse from a year ago.

i'm worried for my kid. i'm usually the bleak and paranoid one in the family--she's the logical/rational one. and she seems to be going into a dark place. i wish i could fix everything for her-- i really just don't know what to do.

here is a link she sent tonight--there are 11 tweets to the thread and all worth reading imo.

Link to tweet

1/ Over time, the effects of #covid19 on heart, brain, lungs, vascular system, sensory system, kidneys & more will become better understood

Until then, any reassurance that massive levels of infection are ‘ok’ for society is a gamble—a gamble with unknown long-term costs.

9/ For some, even potential for long term effects is not enough to convince them that we need safer buildings, cleaner air, better masks, more equitable vaccine distribution, more tests.

Many have instead used this time of lower incidence to mock & make mitigation seem futile

10/ But regardless of anyone’s opinion now, if we are wrong— if the long term inflammatory effects of this virus are worse than we are recognizing short term—no one will be held accountable (certainly not those who are reassuring you that infections aren’t a problem any more)

11/ This isn’t about masks or restriction or politics. Ask any infectious disease doctor— we regularly are consulted on cases Post-Covid with ongoing inflammatory processes. Some are mild, some are moderate, some are severe. All are new to us— we are only a couple years in.

here's the thread unrolled:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1502841813094199300.html

[brewens]

1. I'm not gonna get over it, because I'm not gonna get it. I'm still laying low. I lost a lot of

weight before COVID hit and greatly improved my health. Really more than I thought I could. I'm not screwing it up now. Here's a clip of COVID trying to get me.

[Meowmee]

2. I know how she feels

And I am sorry she is going through this stress with a baby etc. I had it pre vaccine at the beginning and am a lh, still have problems. Some type of heart damage. My father had it pre vax Jan 2021 and died 10 months later. Severe brain, heart and bladder and other damage. It was a murder.

We are still masking everywhere and I barely go out except to shop and now teach in person. They made masks optional now so it is very stressful but I wear n95 everywhere and never take off my mask, eat in my car etc. We are high risk and we are not taking any chances. It really does take a toll, but since my father my whole world has changed forever really. Since that pos criminal was installed in office and caused all of this the world is crap to me. I have ptsd from what I went through and witnessed.

I went through months of severe pain with the pneumonia and still have pain and I never want to go through that again.

[orleans]

7. i'm sorry to hear about your dad & what you've been through

i also wear that n95 everywhere. so does my daughter & her husband. i wear that mask around them too. i work with a lot of kids and for the last two weeks most aren't masked. this past week there were plenty of kids doing a lot of coughing. (oh great.) and i've noticed parents still aren't teaching them to cover their mouths and nose when they cough or sneeze. it was the first time in two years i had to do my lecture on that crap again. (and it goes in one ear and out the other)

i even had one kid come up along side of me and blow on my face and in my eye! six (maybe 7) yrs old. not wearing a mask of course. i'm masked w/the n95 and a cloth mask to cover the antiseptic appearance of the n95. but i don't wear a fucking face shield!

[Meowmee]

13. Thanks

Omg,I feel for you… I taught in a preschool for a year years ago and it was the worst. Parents sent their child in with a high fever, on antibiotics sick! They would sleep on the floor and sneeze/ cough sputum all over you. I had strep throat three times that year, never again, lol.

Of course then there was no worry of dying for me from covid or anything else really. Ugh. Now it’s college and even before covid I have said for years don’t come here if you are sick you will be excused and they still come in sick sneezing all over everyone, it really pisses me off. I am counting the weeks down until this is over. I have to reevaluate everything after this. I hope to just teach online or do some thing else altogether. I just hate people now and people in this country are so f***** stupid and selfish narcissists.


You could wear goggles I did that for the first half of the pandemic and I have been considering doing that for the teaching again now but I am sure I will get more behavioral problems. And it is really hard physically because my glasses fog up and lots of other issues. I have been thinking of getting prescription safety glasses which will give me a little bit more protection but I haven’t managed to get to the eye doctor to get a new prescription yet.

[orleans]

32. my daughter suggested i wear a face shield (along with masking)

i laughed. parents would go nuts if i did that. after all, most of their kids aren't wearing masks anymore (including the under five unvaxed crowd)

until they teach their kids to cough & sneeze into their arms, and to stop blowing on people's faces, a face shield over an n95 would be a great response. lol.

[Meowmee]

36. I would do it I were you

Who cares what they think. It’s about protecting you as much as possible. The school and the parents don’t care so you need to protect yourself.

[BigmanPigman]

3. I don't know if you should let her know that another wave has already started.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/114227773

On Worldometers you can see it for yourself. Ba2 is spreading now and its symptoms seem to be a lot of dizziness and fatigue.

My neighbor, who was vaxxed and boosted got it and ended up in the hospital and he is still recovering after 6 weeks. He doesn't know which variant he has. I went to my local CVS to get more free tests through my health insur (anyone can get them) and free masks but they are all out and was told to call next week.

The problem with the new wave that has started is that when the Omicron variant reached its low it wasn't that low, compared to the other waves. It hit a plateau that is way too high before increasing again.

Who knows if this new variant is more contagiois or deadly compared to the other. We are far from out of the woods. Your daughter, and everyone, should be prepared for this.

[canetoad]

4. Every single day I check three figures for my state

New cases. 6.000
Total active cases 40.000
Overnight death 24

That's all.

[FreepFryer]

5. So are you saying you agree with her concerns or don't you?

You say you would feel the same way if you were in her position, but you also imply she’s becoming paranoid and irrational.

Perhaps you need some help figuring this out for yourself before you can help her.

[orleans]

8. i agree with her. but i'm the doom and gloom in the family

--she's turning into me.

and compared to how she's been handling this shit for two years, she seems to have taken a dark turn now.

[lostnfound]

9. So you need to get comfortable cheering her up instead

Ok so covid is still out here and terrifying. Then what?

Then.. life is NOW. Savor the moments with the toddler, what a magical joy they can be.
Plant a garden. Read. Connect everyday via FaceTime to at least a couple people.

the infinite is has a plan.
Maybe we will get through this and look back on these dark days.

Doesn’t sound bad that she is informed and realistic. At least you understand each other. Then what?

Doom and gloom alone can’t take you anywhere. What’s next?

[C Moon]

6. If everyone in this world was caring, we'd all be vaccinated, wearing masks, avoiding gatherings.

And COVID would have been brought to its knees.

Instead, the dumb-ass punks and bullies (pressed by vaccinated and masked billionaires not wanting to lose money), took over.

[Withywindle]

10. Long covid is not being studied anywhere near enough, I think

That's what I fear more than anything. There are people who had covid 2 years ago, who are still not the same as they were, who still have "brain fog" (a cutesy name for cognitive impairment, which means brain damage). A neighbor of ours, a man in his 50s who was healthy and never had heart trouble before, died of a heart attack a few months after a "mild" case. I have a friend who struggles daily with trying to eat enough to survive because her sense of taste has never recovered after she had covid last summer; everything tastes rotten to her and she has to fight her gag reflex with every bite. She used to love to cook and try new restaurants.

edit: I think your daughter's fear is logical and rational. Yes, the worst after effects won't happen to everyone, but they will happen to enough people to make the risk very real. Optimists buy lottery tickets with far longer odds.

[Ms. Toad]

21. They are studying it. My employee is in a study.

She has brain fog. (It doesn't always mean brain damage. I had it while I was preganant, my daughter (with a liver disease) has it off and on. It isn't a term invented for COVID, and may be associated with brain damage - but not always.)

[hlthe2b]

11. I increasingly find it hard to fathom how humans have survived this long, given their penchance for

self-destruction and willful ignorance of threats... Not only COVID-19 and other infectious diseases, toxic exposures, climate change, and on and on. So many simply bury their head in the sand or fight the wrong fight (against masks, vaccines, science, regulations).

I fight with people coming in the ER every damned day over the fact that YES, you still have to wear masks and YES, COVID-19 is still circulating (along with flu) and I was the ONLY person wearing a mask (or at least the only one I saw) when I ran into a Walmart store yesterday afternoon for something I've been unable to find elsewhere. A damned mask is really not that big a thing-- at least a surgical mask which is still 65% effective. My entire career has been behind at least a surgical mask, but the public acts as though that is asking them to suit up in full head-to-toe PPE--spacesuit style.

Will humans be here beyond Putin? That, I guess is the first question. Will we survive a reemergence of COVID or the next highly mutated pandemic flu? The famines coming from climate change?

I don't know how people can look at their children and grandchildren, yet continue to cling to so much denial.

[North Shore Chicago]

14. x 1000

[Nay]

19. Well, this is probably the first time in human history that populations can adopt

completely irrational ideologies and fantasies and not have real life take them out of the gene pool immediately for their stupidity. People are waaaaay too separated from nature to experience the beatdown they need and deserve.

[Skittles]

12. I think she is right to be very cautious

but it sounds like she may have some kind of anxiety issue going on, can you go see her in person?

[progree]

15. World daily new cases (7 day moving average): Up 11.7% in 10 days

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.html
No Paywall, No quota, the "Last 90 Days" button is extremely very helpful

This makes me anxious, and it should.

[Ms. Toad]

22. The increase is in Europe and the Asia Pacific.

The US is still going down.

But yes, we should be paying close attention.

We're almost at the level in my county at which I'll feel safe going without a mask in most situations (We'll likely hit it tomorrow). But I'll continue to watch daily, and mask back up if it starts to go up. (I set the standards last May when I was outraged at the premature "toss your mask" order from the CDC - >70% vaccination + < 50 total cases/100,000 in 2 weeks. We're at 50.6 today). I'll probably continue to mask in situations where children are present (the vaccination rate isn't high enough, and many aren't able to be vaccinated yet), or in small spaces with other people for more than a few minutes.

On the other hand - I've got a stuffy nose and a slight fever last night after enjoying my retirement party at work without a mask on Thursday. (Negative COVID test this morning - but if you can catch a cold, you can catch COVID . . . ) So I may keep wearing my mask anyway.

[progree]

26. Yes, the U.S. is in relatively good shape, some parts of Europe and east Asia are not --

I've watched this pandemic for more than 2 years, looking at the NYTimes maps of the world and of the U.S. at least daily, and I have watched, stunned, as the areas with the worst statistics and the areas with the best statistics have shifted back and forth and around multiple times to be complacent.

[Ms. Toad]

27. Same here. So I expect we will go back up soon.

I track numbers, rather than maps. I expect it is the variant of omicron which is fueling this. I had hoped for a 3 - 4 month gap before the next peak - but we may not make it.

[progree]

30. Oh, I look at the tables too! The maps give me a great overview though for telling me which

regions are having the most - mid - least in per-capita stats. And if one hovers the mouse over a country (or county in the U.S. map), it pops up the daily new case per capita (7 day moving average) as well as a teeny graphic of the 14 day trend line.

And then I scroll down to the table which can be sorted by the different columns. Default is daily new cases per 100k, 7 day moving average, but I also often sort by the fastest percentage increase.

And then scroll down further and further to take in the graphics of the hospitalization rates, death rates, and so on.

I track numbers, rather than maps.

[YoniCat]

16. I am also one of the people that could easily die from COVID

Your daughter is 100% correct and you should be supporting her efforts to protect her child. She needs reassurance and comfort and you need to mask up and not risk infecting the baby. Why are you even posting here? You will not find a single person to say your daughter's fears are unfounded. If you can't curtail your own activities well enough to keep her family safe then you need to only have virtual visits with them. Your post seems to be a lot more about you than it does about them. Stop being selfish.

Now for the good news. By about June the pill that is 90% effective at treating COVID will be in good supply. It's planned to be available at the same pharmacy where you can go get a COVID test. So if you test positive you can get the pill prescribed same day. it's crucial to catch the COVID infection early. So I'm laying low and not taking any risks until these pills are readily available.

[orleans]

24. maybe i wasn't all that clear in my op

maybe you should read it again and stop assuming i'm an asshole

"why are you even posting here?"
really?

"if you can't curtail your own activities well enough to keep her family safe then you need to only have virtual visits with them."

what activities are you referring to?
none.

"stop being selfish"
how am i being selfish?

i am extremely concerned for my daughter's mental well-being. i'm worried about her. i'm sad that she is sad and frustrated.

i believe she is doing everything she can to stay safe and keep her child safe. i applaud that.
i do everything i can to keep her and my granddaughter safe. i wear an n95 and a thick cloth mask when i'm out, at work, and around my daughter and grandchild. i am not bar hopping, eating at restaurants, spending an afternoon at the mall or any other risky behavior you apparently assume i am doing.

as far as your "good news" goes--yes, those drugs made available will be good, but that won't guarantee people won't experience the long haul covid effects. also--it is not for children/toddlers.

[BadgerKid]

17. Couple of things

“Because I don’t have to” is an all too frequent outlook in the US. So irritating. I am still wearing a mask in public. Pre-covid, in the winter I tended to go out in public during offhours to decrease exposure to bugs etc. and used hand sanitizer after touching public things.

On the long term effects, it is possible. Our DNA already contains pieces of ancient viruses. ( HPV strains are typical these days. ) we may already be showing the long term effects of these viruses.

[mnhtnbb]

18. You might suggest that she call her child's pediatrician

to find out what is being recommended for kids the age of her baby. Does your daughter follow the Covid numbers in her county? They vary a lot--even within a state--and how many people are likely vaccinated when she goes out with the baby is one consideration regarding where she goes with the baby. Teaching the baby to accept wearing a mask at the earliest age is also helpful and the pediatrician's office may have some advice about that.

Your daughter is right to be concerned, but there is also a concern about transmitting her anxiety to her child.

More studies are being done all the time, but it's going to take time to get enough data to know about long term effects for various age groups. It appears that the youngest children--who aren't eligible to be vaccinated--tend to have less severe cases if they do contract Covid, but it's not zero. Your pediatrician will have more specific information whether and to what extent other factors might play a part in that, just as it does for seniors or some ethnic groups.

Long term effects are definitely something to be concerned about for people of all ages and, personally, I don't think there's been enough discussion about long term effects in the media as a reason why people need to get vaccinated and follow the common sense public health practices of masking, distancing, and hand sanitation to prevent contracting the disease.

[Ms. Toad]

20. I've been sounding that alarm bell all along.

We won't know for decades whehter this is polio or chicken pox (both of which are associated with major secondary consequences decades down the road) or the flu (which is generally done when it's over).

All signs I see point to the former. I have an employee who had mild COVID, whose brain is altered (obvious to me, and she concurs). This is consistent with the first studies out on physical alteration of the brain. We've known about the connection with the heart for at least a year. We know this disease impacta more body systems than any disease doctors have ever seen.

It is stupid to be "over it," and careless about catching or transmitting it.

[Hugin]

23. What bothers me is there is this push in insurance not to recognize...

What is being defined as ‘long COVID’.

[Ms. Toad]

25. Disability insurance?

That's pretty common even with long-recognized conditions.

Aside from a few conditions, the standard is to deny and force you to appeal. It's an issue for many people with disabilities.

[Hugin]

29. From the few reports I have seen...

It is health insurance attempting to define LC as a preexisting condition.

[Ms. Toad]

31. Pre-existing conditions don't matter much anymore,

as long as you are applying for ACA, work, or Medicare insurance during open enrollment. Most job-based insurance can't exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. If you missed the open enrollment period for the ACA, work, or even Medicare, they can excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions for a limited period of time.

So if you got COVID and THEN applied for insurance, it would be a pre-existing condition - excludable under very limited circumstances, for a limited period of time, post-ACA.

Given that our entire family is one massive pre-existing condition (and prior to ACA could not get insurance at all, let alone at a reasonable price), I have a hard time working up much sympathy for people who choose not to have insurance and later discover the condition that started before they had insurance has a waiting period. The mindset of not buying insurance until you are sick is the one which drove up insurance prices in the first place, and required my daughter to be a full-time student when she was barely functional because that was the only way for her to get insurance to cover her $200,000/year billed medical costs.

[artemisia1]

28. Your daughter sounds like a very wise woman. /nt

[Initech]

33. My brother is in public health.

What he said is that they don't really know what the long term effects are for long COVID. But what he did say is that things are getting so much better then they were 2 years ago. The vaccines work better than expected and we are starting to get treatments now. In the last 2 weeks he's admitted like one COVID patient at his hospital and even then the symptoms were mild at best. The pandemic isn't over by any means but things getting better every day.

[orleans]

35. thanks for those hopeful words. truly nt

[Tink41]

34. I truly feel for her

I was reading thru the Scientists Covid Twitter feed over the weekend talking about after effects from a mild case. Its not good. Heart Attacks and Strokes months later even being vaxxed before they caught it. I'm still masking, kid still masking. I have a grandchild and only protection rt now is the breastmilk she consumed from vaxxed mother. Not old enough to keep a mask on. It's terrifying. It makes me angry that TPTB have just thrown their hands up like it's over. It's not.