Toxic Putin is going for bust. The west must stop him before this contagion spreads

[babylonsister]

Toxic Putin is going for bust. The west must stop him before this contagion spreads
Simon Tisdall
Analysis: if we do not refuse to be blackmailed and step in to stop Russia, Ukraine will only be the start
Sun 13 Mar 2022 04.00 EDT


Politically speaking, Vladimir Putin is a dead man walking. As dictators always do, he has fatally over-reached. Bunker-bound and bonkers, there’s no way back into the world for him. At home, too, he looks increasingly isolated.

But, militarily speaking, he’s not giving up. In Ukraine, the toxic president is going for bust. The worrying question: what will he do next?

Insofar as Putin still has a plan, it is to bomb and batter the Ukrainian people into submission, by whatever means necessary, as quickly as possible. If that requires using chemical weapons, such as chlorine gas, as in Syria, who can doubt he will do so. Last week’s Mariupol maternity hospital war crime was a harbinger of worse, perhaps far worse, to come.

Diplomats and analysts believe that, despite Ukraine’s unexpectedly effective resistance, Russia’s grip on the country is inexorably tightening. Vitali Klitschko, mayor of Kyiv, says the capital only has sufficient supplies for one or two weeks if attacked. Half the population has fled. If the allied powers sincerely want Ukraine to survive, time is running out.

more...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/13/toxic-putin-is-going-for-bust-the-west-must-stop-him-before-this-contagion-spreads

[Walleye]

1. I think we are going to end up in a shooting war eventually with Russia

[LisaL]

2. That will be the end of the world.

Because any shooting war between US and Russia will be with nukes.

[RKP5637]

4. Yes, that well might be ... but then again, does the rest of the world allow Putin to

consume countries in this manner. How/where will it stop? Eventually, it might be time to call his bluff, I guess ...

[RKP5637]

13. Agree!!! n/t

[Walleye]

10. This is the sword of Damocles that has been hanging over our heads since I was a child in the 50s

Younger people can’t understand why the boomers are so screwed up. Check out what’s going on now

[paleotn]

14. Very good point.

It's an experience missing in younger folks, and that's a good thing. Like our parents felt about WW2, I hoped they'd never have to live through it. Tragic that they're now experiencing what we experienced day in and day out for decades. The idea that due to geopolitics there's a small but significant chance we won't see old age.

Soon after the invasion started, I asked my better half if the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists had moved the doomsday clock up a bit. Way ahead of me. They moved it up in January.

https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/timeline/

[wnylib]

52. Yes, I clearly remember that, when the Soviet Union

fell apart well into my adulthood, I felt a great relief and loosening of tension that I had not consciously realized I had been carrying since childhood.

But current events show that the relief was premature.

[Walleye]

53. Yes, the feeling I'm getting now is both sickening and familiar

[wnylib]

58. I had a brother in the Navy during

the Cuban Missile Crisis. He was on a destroyer that guarded an aircraft carrier during that crisis. I turned 13 as the crisis went on and did not know if I would make it to 14, or, if I did, whether I would ever see my brother again. A few months earlier, I had read On the Beach.

A lot for a teen to carry.

[Walleye]

59. I was also 13 in the Cuban missile crisis. Living very close to a major East Coast airbase

I guess it is hard to understand for people who never lived with that. But we were certain we would never see old age.

[wnylib]

63. Once the Missile Crisis was over and

the whole world felt like it had dodged a bullet, I hoped and thought that we would never face something like that again.

And now, here we are.

[Walleye]

64. There are several battles we are fighting now that I thought we had won a long time ago

As I’ve said before. When Hillary lost I felt my whole life has been for nothing

[wnylib]

69. I was literally, physically nauseated

when Trump "won," but not to the point of feeling that my whole life hard been for nothing. That kind of "win," plus the behavior and actions of Trump in office turned my nausea into anger and anger into deep resolve to oppose Trump and his ilk forever. There will be lives beyond ours, if we don't blow ourselves up in a nuclear holocaust, so what we do today will affect future generations.

[paleotn]

11. Greatly increases the risk, no doubt...

Even those back in the Soviet days who believed nuclear escalation wasn't inevitable, that cooler heads would surely prevail, still shrank from direct confrontation, because it they were wrong, the consequences were unimaginable. Too great a risk to take.

[harumph]

24. That is mere supposition.

I don't think his military will do it.

[Walleye]

57. I'm not so sure. Look at what they're doing now. Crimes against humanity

[YoshidaYui]

36. This

[fightforfreedom]

3. You may be right.

We are one moment, one mistake, one miscalculation away from world war.

[wnylib]

70. +100000.

[RKP5637]

7. Yes, sadly, I think it might be inevitable. Putin has become a madman. I don't see how he can

be restrained if he pursues saying I have nukes. Maybe, eventually, his bluff needs to be called since he is emboldened as he collects more countries. It's a catch 22, and a déjà vu to Hitler and the like. It's a damn shame if a country like Ukraine is overrun by Putin for no damn reason at all than to stroke Putin's ego.

[Ray Bruns]

21. I think that also. If we would only help Ukraine more,

That might give some people in Russia to move Putin out.

[Walleye]

23. At this point the only way we could help Ukraine more is by firing on Russian positions

I’m starting to think we may as well go ahead and do that. Fortunately I am not in charge

[2naSalit]

50. Sadly...

I was wondering when not if. Putin wants a war with everyone and he's got his foot mashed on the gas to get there.

As with the party of treason here, there is no bottom. Best to do what it takes to decapitate this viper asap.

[paleotn]

5. Problem for Toxic Man is, the Ukrainians won't be bombed or battered into submission.

They have a history of resistance. And against far more capable, organized and insidious enemies than the current Russian dictator and his hapless military.

I get the point though. We may have to get much more involved. At the very least communicate and assist in any way feasible those in the Russian government with the mind to and ability to topple Putin. Payback for 2016 in spades.

[former9thward]

83. Do they have a history of resistance?

I keep hearing that but history says different. The Nazis had no significant problems when they controlled Ukraine. When Ukraine was under Soviet rule for decades they had no real issues with the population (Even when Stalin instituted his collectivization policy on the peasants and caused an estimated 2-3 million Ukrainians to die of starvation in the early 30s there were no major revolts.)

[dalton99a]

6. Evil motherfucker is a clear menace to all humanity

[RKP5637]

34. Exactly, and any thinking he will give up and just go away are tragically mistaken.

I'm not a history buff/expert, but as I recall Hitler was treated in his early days as a fad that would go away, eventually. There is no way IMO that Putin will stop at Ukraine, if anything, a win there will just embolden him more to go into small countries unable to defend themselves. He's a sociopathic bully.

[dalton99a]

37. +1. And trying to placate a bully will only lead to more bullying

[RKP5637]

38. K&R!!! n/t

[Evolve Dammit]

49. That's the dilemma. I guess the lines are the NATO country borders.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I've been sending this same message to the WH daily.

[David__77]

12. I'm glad Biden is president instead of the article author - that's lunacy.

His non military engagement course is the right one and will continue to be the right one.

[hadEnuf]

41. Agreed 100%.

The ignorance of the history of the cold war years in some of these articles and posts here is astonishing. Cold war policies and protocols are still in place and have been since the fall of the Soviet Union. It's just been less likely that they would ever be used.

Luckily we have a POTUS who understands this.

[RKP5637]

15. Often (I think) people feel Putin will respond to sanctions, etc. as they would. However, Putin has

an entirely different set of emotions/responses to threats and actions. And, he lacks the capacity to feel for others. I feel he is a strong sociopath, and has the same makeup as previous dictators, as well as Hitler and the like. IMO he is not going to stop and hence Ukraine is not the last. Each little win emboldens him more.

[Wingus Dingus]

16. I don't believe Putin is going anywhere else besides Ukraine, for a long while.

I think it's his last big hurrah, to take care of this bee in his bonnet. But he didn't want to do it like this. He's bogged down for a while, and his people--however cowed, however patient, or however cynical--will only accept their sons returned in body bags to a point. So I don't worry about what's next, in the PRACTICAL sense of future conquests.

That said, I do feel the author's urgency to intervene. The world has the means to stop this. This isn't an internal-strife problem, it's not a civil war or a coup, and it isn't muddied by complex credible grievances. It's literally Good vs. Evil. An evil power decides to crush an emerging democracy, where the elected leaders are kidnapped or threatened with assassination, their homes are razed, expectant mothers going through labor with bombs dropping around them, civilians shot, starved, and frozen, essential workers held hostage, livelihoods gone... At some point it's going to be too much. I don't know when we get there.

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. That's what the cautious and timid are speculating; I hope you're right

But expect that you’re wrong. Putin has made no secret of his desire to reconstitute the former USSR, and destroy the NATO alliance. Trump was going to help with the latter, but, you know, “rigged election”, etc.

[Wingus Dingus]

22. Towards that end, I read that we are not sanctioning Belarus

to nearly the same extent that Russia is being sanctioned--and considering that Putin is using Belarus to strike Ukraine AND getting Belarus troops involved to an extent, WHY are we not strangling Belarus? They will collapse long before Russia does, in terms of people getting fed up and revolting, and that would cause Putin a mess of trouble. That's the kind of fighting--economic fighting--we have to do now, to damage Russia's ties with its puppet states and allies.

[wnylib]

51. Interesting point that had not occurred to me.

I wonder why we don't sanction Belarus, since it probably would negatively affect Putin's ability to continue in Ukraine.

But, would sanctions against Belarus work as hoped, or be perceived by Putin as a direct attack and trigger a counter attack somewhere beyond Ukraine, i.e. Poland?

I don't know.

[Wingus Dingus]

54. Belarus is of course a Putin puppet state, but the people there

tried to get rid of Lukashenko last year, they also want more of a democratic direction--the protests were brutally shut down, as I recall. They are, on paper, their own sovereign nation, so the rest of the world has the right to treat them as such, no matter how hopping-mad Pooty gets about it. Lukashenko has a much more tenuous grasp on his country than Putin does of Russia--we should aim for that weak knee, IMO.

[wnylib]

61. Yes, the world has a right to see Belarus

as an independent country and to treat it that way. As we see in Ukraine, Putin does not recognize individual nation's rights, so his reaction to a move on Belarus could be retaliatory against still another nation, or toward Belarus itself.

OTOH, he has bitten off a large bite to chew, let alone swallow in Ukraine, so how much more would he be able to handle right now?

[Wingus Dingus]

62. To answer your question, that's where the military analysts and experts come in!

[wnylib]

67. Indeed. Considering Putin's nuclear threats,

I am sure those military experts are also paying close attention to our nuclear defenses.

That does NOT mean that I advocate any escalation that could lead to nuclear weapons. I don't. But it would be foolish and reckless not to prepare for any eventuality.

.

[Gore1FL]

31. You keep making the same claims, but fail to back any of your arguments.

1> With what troops and equipment does Putin stage this grand invasion of the west?

2> So far, every move Putin has made has strengthened the NATO alliance. It seems rather robust, to me. If it is fragile as you think, why worry about saving it?

3> Even if Trump had a shot at 2024 that is more than two years away. How is this even a factor in the urgency?

To characterize those that disagree with your fervent desire for WWIII as cautious may be valid, but "timid?" Really?

[wnylib]

71. Well said. Agree.

[erronis]

27. Right. Don't forget Crimea, Georgia, Chechnya. Makes me think of how trump would realize the errors

of his ways and become a good boy.

Ain't going to happen with putin, either. All those Baltic countries between the USSR (whoops russia) and the North Sea. Easy-peasy.

[Wingus Dingus]

46. Only idiots believed Trump would ever turn into anything better than a destructive idiot.

I still remember the "liberal" media saying "Now he's pivoting, he's a real president!" the first couple years--sheesh. Trump did not receive the punch in the face that Putin has received, though. Putin was caught off-guard and not in full control of what was set into motion in Ukraine, and the punitive destructive terror campaign he has to wage now is proof of that. He didn't want it to go this way. His stature as a leader has plummeted, to where he's like a cartoon villain now. His country's in crisis. His young troops are coming home as hamburger if they come home at all, his military is damaged and looks stupid, and he killed the Russian brand--maybe for a lifetime. So I doubt he will go further than Ukraine, but I can certainly see why others see it differently.

[wnylib]

73. True. He wants to go further,

but for the reasons you stated, is not in a good position to do so.

But, he is power crazy enough to resort to nukes, unfortunately, which means his country would be annihilated by the West, with nothing to rule over if he survived. But the world wide damage would also be horrific. A lose-lose event. But Putin and Russia would lose the most since there likely would be pockets of survivors somewhere in the world, though not in Russia and not many anywhere in the West.

In some ways, he reminds me of the abusive husband whose wife leaves him so he says, "If I can't have her, no one else can either." Then he kills the her. Even if he knows that it means that he will die, too, in the process, he considers it a win because he will get his way in preventing her from having a life without him.

Putin's mentality appears to be the same. The best possibility is that someone or something kills him first.

[Wingus Dingus]

74. Yep. It's hard to determine his mental state, but it's clear that

he does react to western analysis and comments about him--people laughed at him for the LONG LONG TABLE, so he staged a photo op with stewardesses, trying to seem almost human-like and not an isolated paranoid freak. Belarus' Lukashenko hasn't committed troops in a serious way, leading to speculation that there was a split between Belarus and Russia on the invasion--so he invited Lukashenko for a photo-op meeting and warm huggy-hugs, to show everyone they support each other. So in THAT sense, he is paying attention and reacting appropriately to media reports about him. Not totally and completely out to lunch yet.

[wnylib]

77. True, but his reactions

to what people say about him don't suggest that he feels it personally or takes actions to make himself look better for the sake of his personal feelings. His responses appears to be aimed at projecting images that will influence or control the behavior and perceptions of others rather than to be a salve to his ego.

[Wingus Dingus]

78. I think there's a strong case to be made he's a psychopath, definitely.

[wnylib]

79. For sure, which is why I believe (hope)

that we have top notch profilers in the US and among our allies advising world leaders on dealing with Putin.

[Lonestarblue]

28. I have to disagree. Putin has made public statements about expanding Russia's sphere of influence.

He took Crimea with a very weak response from the West. Prior to that, he waged brutal wars in Georgia and Chechnya. In Chechnya alone, estimates are that Russian troops killed as many as a quarter million citizens.

Leaders of the non-NATO nations that were formerly part of the USSR have also stated their fears that they are next. Putin has maintained power over a country with a declining economy by murdering his political opponents, by giving oligarchs free reign to steal the assets of the nation, and by using propaganda to brainwash the Russian people in believing that Western nations hate them and are constantly trying to hurt the country—making them victims of the West that he is protecting, thus his frequent wars to show that he is “on the job.” Putin maintains almost total control over the news that Russians get, and thus they are still supporting him.

Putin falsely used national security as a reason to invade Ukraine, but neither Ukraine nor any of Russia’s neighbors had any desire or capability to attack Russia. Yes, Putin sees Ukraine as the crown jewel in this collection of countries as he reestablishes Imperial Russia with himself as its modern-day czar. I believe it makes no sense for Putin to invade other countries, but it made no sense for him to invade Ukraine. Nor does it make sense for him to occupy Ukraine because it will strain his forces and the Ukrainians will fight for decades if necessary to free themselves. Plus, the US and the EU nations will continue to fund and equip them in their fight. Yet Putin pushes on with ever more brutal attacks. If he claims Kviv,,he will declare himself the winner. It may take a year or so to regroup, but he’ll have the next country in his sights. That’s a big reason why severe sanctions should remain in place indefinitely. This time, Putin needs to be taught a lesson.

[Wingus Dingus]

43. I agree with you that severe sanctions need to be in place for the foreseeable future--

Both as punishment for now, and as future deterrence. However, what you wrote about Putin re-establishing an empire really applies to the situation as it stood a very looooong month ago: back when Putin was confident in his VERY WRONG intel reports about Ukraine's citizens and Zelensky's government, and confident in his VERY WRONG assessment of Russia's military capabilities, and confident in his VERY WRONG assessment of how the West was weak and would not be able to respond in a unified fashion.

He may still want to get the old band back together, but he has learned that a lot of his assumptions of only a few weeks ago were very flawed. He is almost certainly going to have to reassess his aims, especially in light of the massive death toll of his troops, and the economic damage of sanctions and western companies leaving.

[randr]

17. Vaporize the Vlad MFer

If a wasp flys into my room with the potential to kill me with it's sting. I swat it, no questions

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. Oh no, we can't stop Putin with our military, he *might* use nukes

And Putin, knowing the west’s lack of courage to do the right thing, will not stop with destroying Ukraine. He will seize or destroy any country he wishes knowing NATO won’t respond.

If the US won’t stop the genocide in Ukraine, then who actually thinks they will stop Putin from seizing Latvia? Don’t bother quoting “Article Five” to me- the fact is, if Putin didn’t have nukes, the US would already have troops on the ground in Ukraine. They don’t because, in Biden’s words “that would be World War III”.

Well, Joe, anytime the US and Russia engage in direct military combat, the potential for WWIII is high, so if you aren’t going to risk it for Ukraine, I can’t see you risking it for Latvia.

And Putin knows it.

[PortTack]

25. Bookmarking....if the day comes russia does step outside of Ukraine, it will meet the might of NATO!

I trust President Biden and all of the free democratically aligned countries of europe!

[c-rational]

29. +1

[Fiendish Thingy]

55. What if Putin seizes Latvia after Trump is reinstalled? Nt

[DemocraticPatriot]

84. +1000

[EndlessWire]

75. Russia will be after the rest of the nuclear plants.

There are two more fairly close to the Polish border. The potential for a mistake is high. Given their now trade marked penchant for surrounding things and shooting the crap out of them, this could be troublesome.

[EndlessWire]

76. Russia will be after the rest of the nuclear plants.

There are two more fairly close to the Polish border. The potential for a mistake is high. Given their now trade marked penchant for surrounding things and shooting the crap out of them, this could be troublesome.

[RicROC]

26. I'm not sure Putin is a mad man....

I think he's merely Soviet with Soviet thinking.

The US should have been more supportive of controlled capitalism and democracy after the break up of the UdSSR (German spelling). From what I understand, the US (read that: RussiaPublicans) tried to foster unfettered capitalism in the new Russia, like they tried unsuccessfully in Iraq, causing 10 years of misery. One reporter said he still remembers the stench of dead people lying on the sidewalks. Putin came to power and even though he made himself a Billionaire, on the most part, people were better off. Not good but not dying on the streets. That might be the reason why even today, the Russians believe the disinformation.

[erronis]

30. Good analysis, IMHO. The Russians wanted stability, even if it meant a return to soviet-style govt.

[c-rational]

32. If I recall correctly, Bush senior used the Shock Doctrine when Yeltsin wanted to go for an economy

more like Sweden. So yes, I do agree we had a hand in how the present Russian economy developed, which benefits few enormously, and which developed into a kleptocracy.

[Jakes Progress]

33. He must know that world war is the only thing that might keep him in power.

[Justice matters.]

35. Since when is the US the world's POLICE?

If Simon Tisdall wants to fight, he can go there and join the combatants. Thousands of non-Ukrainians already made it over there.

[Mariana]

87. Lots of chickenhawks bloviating lately. nt.

[Justice matters.]

88. Yep. Can't even "POLICE" the traitors within...nT

[YoshidaYui]

39. Wouldn't it be better if someone quietly took him out

Like they did to Bin Laden.

[YoshidaYui]

40. Wouldn't it be better if someone quietly took him out??

Like they did to Bin Laden.

[babylonsister]

42. I bet he's so well

hidden and protected that might be impossible unless one of his compatriots does it.

[bluestarone]

80. As he SHOULD be!

For the rest of his life! Hard to believe he did this. No matter what, he has huge crosshair on his body, FOREVER!

[lambchopp59]

44. since Tuck Carltooth has his head so far up Putin's ass...

This would be a great time for Fox Noise channel to fly him there to interview Vladmir, then perfect timing for a surgical strike...
2 evil birds with one stone.

[Mr. Evil]

45. There has to be some that are close to Putin

that realize he is a delusional madman and needs to be removed any way possible at all costs. They should also set an example as a warning to all wannabe phony tough guy despots by giving him the Mussolini treatment. Then declaring that Russia from that point forward will become a true democratic nation and will rebuild Ukraine. That would make TFG, Tucker Carlson and all the other Putin fluffers and worshipers collectively shit their pants. This most likely won't happen but, the thought gives me some semblance of hope.

[KS Toronado]

47. Wish NATO would inform Putler they are "unhappy" with him.

MEANWHILE....send every piece of NATO equipment & troops to EU's eastern border with Russia, from N to S,
send every NATO ship just outside Russia's territorial waters, have fighters jets patrol the border 24/7.
Give Putler something to worry about while Russians on the border notice the build up and ask what's going on?

[Wingus Dingus]

60. There's a school of thought that Putin wants a showdown (not necessarily

a conflict--but a showdown/close-call) with NATO, or wants to provoke what appears to be NATO aggression, to show Russians how he is right that NATO is a threat and wants to attack them. This helps him justify the Ukraine invasion, and would help rally them to support it. I believe it.

[KS Toronado]

66. Lots of thoughts on what that strategy would accomplish.

Would Russians worry & rally around "Is Putler trying to start WWIII?"? I'm sure military & political
strategists are currently talking about this behind closed doors. They are smarter than I am.

[Wingus Dingus]

68. I'm guessing, looking at all the "Z-swastika" shit they're doing over there

and how they're essentially cut off from information, that they would rally. Hopefully we still have good intelligence sources, because it's getting harder and harder to watch them and know what they think.

[nightwing1240]

48. This is solely not a Ukraine situation but a world situation

Ukrainians are currently getting the brunt of evil Putin with several war atrocities already committed. But all freedom loving nations are in jeopardy if he is not stopped. I do believe we are all getting a crash course in "Freedom is not free" and a stand by the USA and our allies must be taken soon. It is not going to take much for this to spread to NATO nations and Putin is showing no signs of backing off. Rather, he is escalating. If possible, get China onboard and draw a line in the sand. One we all hope he will not cross but should he, then we have no choice. I do not want a nuclear war, no one wins in that scenario but it is clear action is needed and the sooner the better.

[BobTheSubgenius]

56. While I absolutely refuse to cede Ukraine to the madman, I can't imagine that, if the worst happens,

he will be able to press further attacks. Ukraine's resistance has pointed up the flaws in the Russian military, and in its infrastructure generally. If reports from the battlefronts are to be believed, the forward units are already poorly supplied, and this after months of preparation.

What happens when stores of everything that the military needs run short, even at home?

[EndlessWire]

72. History has shown us what might happen.

Hitler had a scorched Germany intention. He ordered all the German infrastructure destroyed, in order to punish his loser nation. Fortunately, the man receiving the order failed to carry it out.

If Putin loses this war, with his country pretty much crippled for decades (forever?) then he might decide to fire off a nuke or two to get even. Maybe not, but we might end up with a nuclear ending, anyway. We may be sorry we didn't intervene in Ukraine.

Putin thought this war would be over by now. I know I did! I am admiring of the strength of mind and will power of the Ukrainian people. At least they delayed the end long enough for the rest of the world to get a really.good.look at what Russia is doing to them.

Good thing I am not President. But, we shall see what happens. I do not think that Biden is frightened whatsoever of Putin and his games. It's past the time for diplomacy, even if we can always talk. But, Putin should bring something to the table more than "surrender" or "assurances."

The United Nations could ignore Russia's veto and deploy humanitarian troops to the borders to help the refugees now threatened with war at the borders.

[BobTheSubgenius]

81. I am SO worried about this going nuclear.

I had always assumed that anyone with even a modicum of the instinct for self-preservation would never actually use those weapons. Putin has shown himself to be much less rational than I had hoped.

[EndlessWire]

85. I totally agree.

Maybe we could talk China into taking care of Putin. After all, they're buddies. Wouldn't it be great if Xi said, sure, we'll help, and then they turned on him.

If we get out of this somehow, we have to completely change our ways and turn toward the light.

[BobTheSubgenius]

86. My cynicism says that too much wealth is filtering upwards for that to happen.

Arms mfrs, oil companies and probably several industries that we would be surprised to hear about are raking it in during these times. Companies along the lines of KBR, for example.

[XiJung]

65. NO NUKES!! n/t

[Cha]

82. I know the USA & our Democratic

Allies are Not going to be sharing with us what they're planning.

Loose lips and all that.