Can we postulate that the Russian Army has been exposed as a 2nd world power?

[OAITW r.2.0]

A power that is losing the conventional war in Ukraine, even though the horror continues. I bet the Russian Generals know this.

So the only real game changer are the nukes. As Putin's world prestige deflates and the world turns totally against this Hitler wannabe, he's got to be thinking about using the nuclear solution to fix his problem. Will the Russian Generals let him?

[yagotme]

1. Foot soldiers appear to be substandard,

but the rockets and artillery are going to make quite a mess.

[uponit7771]

2. No, that messes up a lot of MICs digitized models and threat assessment overall. We need to keep

... spending 800b yrly on WWII thinking that's HORRIBLY outdated relative to individual armed troops with force multipliers / sarc.

This is WWIII in tactics, gone are the days of heavy, shiny and expensive shit.

There's not too many old school generals who can't think past massive airstrikes and coordinated troops movements to ponder that when ONE PERSON with a shoulder mounted missile can hit the big and shiny from a mile away using a DJI Best Buy drone as a spotter those tactics outside an open desert wont work.

EVERY country now can make their won Javs and Stingers and make them better with more abiliities.

I read a story about US intel models claiming his would be over in days at best and a couple of weeks at most.

Now they have to go back to those models and think how they got it wrong, they'll ignore long range stand off one person missiles ... they have to.

[Amishman]

5. Our military has been doing fairly well with keeping up I'd say

We absolutely are the cutting edge for both stealth and drones, the value of which is being underlined in the current Ukraine fighting.

The big question is do we need to transition away from many giant aircraft carriers towards smaller drone carriers?

[OAITW r.2.0]

9. I think you are on to something.

When the dust settles, and history dissects the 2022 Putin War In Ukraine, the conclusion will be 1 man + 1 missile = 1 tank ....game changer. You can't invade a country that doesn't want what you offer anymore.

[patphil]

27. I agree that tanks are slow, easy targets...a relic from a style of warfare that is no more.

A small force can ambush and destroy a whole column of tanks.

[uponit7771]

39. +1, with jav stand off of a mile how in the world do they protect armor with troops.

[uponit7771]

38. +1,

[OAITW r.2.0]

31. Speaking of which. Why don't we send a bill to SA for US Naval Protection.

Getting their product to market. Say, 500BB/year. Pretty sure that covers assetts and operational costs to make this happen, yearly. So, SA passes this cost to the consumer. Then we buy EVs, seriously.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

3. That's a great question,

here's my opinion, and it's an opinion only, I think that if Daddy Vladdy orders a nuclear strike, 2 things will possibly stop him, the Generals, who don't want to lose their luxorious lifestyle because a madman wants to take the world with him, and secondly, the unit of the FSB that's responsible for the warheads, not the missiles, which are controlled by the Strategic Rocket Forces, may withhold the arming codes.

Just my opinion.

[OAITW r.2.0]

13. The Generals have children and families too.

Would they support a strike if the motherland was threatened?....sure, I think they would...just like our generals would do. But if they know that Putin's orders would mean annihilation of their families and the future? Hopefully not.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. +100.

And, the rumor is that there is turmoil within the FSB, hopefully the Dept. that controls the warhead codes.

[uponit7771]

40. +1, I don't see FSB going over the bridge into a river of knives because Putrid wants to be an ahole

[c-rational]

4. I agree with your assessment , and believe you are asking the next most important question,

unfortunately.

[uponit7771]

6. NO!!! Putrid is an asshole he's not suicidal and neither are his generals wanting to kill their kids

The nuclear mention was his petulant response to getting his ass kicked at first, now he's in the long game of attrition via genocide.

[ffr]

7. 90 - 95% yes.

I once thought that even they would not allow a madman push the button to end all life, but I can see now that there is no bottom to how low they will go. They want Ukrainians evicted from their homeland by any means possible, including Nuclear leaks.

I absolutely see their military as half-hearted 2nd-rate on the conventional level. But even if they detonate the nuclear arsenal in Russia, life on Earth is going to change permanently.

The best solution is Psy-Ops, to hopefully break through to enough Russians that no matter what fucked up bullshit they've been told by the Kremlin, the West doesn't give a FUCK about going into Russia. Just FUCK OFF all of you, we don't care. Just don't take the rest of the world with you because you had a bad hair day, FFS!

[OAITW r.2.0]

17. Putin would have to approve the PSY-OP, lol.

No, I think direct action is needed and the media will report accordingly. It's been awhile since a political leader "died from unnatural causes", but it could well happen to Putin.

[ffr]

42. Huh? I'm sorry, you misenterpreted what I said or meant.

The best solution is Psy-Ops, to hopefully break through to enough Russians that no matter what fucked up bullshit they've been told by the Kremlin, the West doesn't give a FUCK about going into Russia. Just FUCK OFF all of you, we don't care. Just don't take the rest of the world with you because you had a bad hair day, FFS!

It's been reported extensively enough that even I have seen the reporting about Radio-Free-Europe broadcasts that beam their radio signals into Russia the way Radio-Free-America did before shutting down in 2020. A way to get free-press news to people in Russia that by-and-large only get their news from Russian state media.

[OAITW r.2.0]

44. Did not mean to question, only clarify.

Thing is, I think Russian people, especially the younger ones have had access to world politik. It's not like Hungary when none knew Jackshit about what was happening. This is why Putin cannot win. The information age has him boxed.

[OAITW r.2.0]

32. By"they", do you mean Putin and his team?

Because I, in no way beleive, that the majority of Russians wanted/expected this. We should be sending this message directly to the Russian People. Our fight is with Putin. Not the Russian people. Isolate the prick.

[ffr]

43. The proposition flows. There is no ambiguity as to whom I refer to as THEY

Threat title: Can we postulate that the Russian Army has been exposed as a 2nd world power?

I absolutely see their military as half-hearted 2nd-rate on the conventional level. But even if they detonate the nuclear arsenal in Russia, life on Earth is going to change permanently.

The best solution is Psy-Ops, to hopefully break through to enough Russians that no matter what fucked up bullshit they've been told by the Kremlin, the West doesn't give a FUCK about going into Russia. Just FUCK OFF all of you, we don't care. Just don't take the rest of the world with you because you had a bad hair day, FFS!

I absolutely see THEIR (The Russian) military as...But even if THEY (The Russians) detonate the nuclear arsenal in Russia...

Clear?

[OAITW r.2.0]

45. So Putin ' Russian Military ' Russian People?

All 3 components are in with Vlad and Don? Doubt this sincerely.

[former9thward]

8. No.

Russia has not fought a major war since their experience in Afghanistan in the 80s. That was almost 40 years ago. They are learning lessons that the U.S. has learned by fighting in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan (and a host of smaller experiences). They are not "losing" in Ukraine since they are gaining ground with each day.

Why people thought this was going to be a short war I don't know. Ukraine is the size of Texas. When the U.S. attacked Germany after D-Day it took almost a year to reach Berlin (and Germany is about half the size of Ukraine.)

[OAITW r.2.0]

19. So you think Russia is "winning" in Ukraine?

Gaining ground in a Texas size state is a relative term.

[former9thward]

22. What is your definition of "losing"?

War is never a one way street and is always full of screw ups. Please note U.S. military history if you doubt that.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. They may be winning the battle,

but they're far from winning the war, which, in my opinion, they will never win.

[OAITW r.2.0]

25. Game is underway - no losers or winners, yet.

Operations always has fuck-ups on both sides. There is not going to be a winner in Ukraine. The people of Ukraine are losing daily....but there is no win for Putin either. And that is the reality of today's Russian Army. Fighting a war that the world is aligned against you and, frankly, you aren't very good at any more.

[Effete Snob]

28. Tie goes to the defender

For Russia, “losing” is not winning.

For Ukraine, not losing is winning.

[former9thward]

29. Well I have to disagree.

Ukraine's infrastructure is being destroyed and it will take a generation or more to rebuild. Housing is being destroyed. Millions of Ukrainians have left the country and many will never return. I do not call that "winning".

[OAITW r.2.0]

33. When the Russians lose.

Reparations will be paid. Does not cover all losses, but acknowledges the evil inflicted.

[FBaggins]

10. Not "exposed" as a 2nd world power - they've always been such

The original 1st/2nd/3rd model defined them as such.

[The Revolution]

36. Yep

1st world: The US/West and allies
2nd world: The USSR and allies
3rd world: Countries not allied to either, thus mostly ignored by the superpowers and tending to be more impoverished

Somewhere along the line this concept got warped into some sort of ranking system.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

11. The Russian army is poorly trained and poorly equipped

Logistics are an important part of any military operation and the Russian logistical support has been sad

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. My personal experience working with the Russian Army's equivelent

of our combat engineers in the mid 90's is that the conscripts were poorly trained, were usually drunk showing up for exercises, their equipment, what they didn't sell for booze/drug money, was in bad disrepair, no discipline and the NCO's either didn't give a fuck or they were exceptionally brutal, their officers didn't care as long as it didn't come back on them.

Russia without their nukes is just another 3rd world country.

[Chainfire]

12. We don't know. Our leaders may, but we don't. Everything that we postulate is guesswork.

I am happy with letting our leadership call the shots. I have full confidence in our Commander In Chief. Thank Dog, it ain't Trump.

This situation fully illuminates how important the Presidential elections are.

[OAITW r.2.0]

20. Can you imagine our life now - everything the same - except Trump got installed?

DU would probably be shut down.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

21. And NATO would be disolved and US troops would be fighting

alongside Russian troops in Ukraine, there would be a clampdown on info just like in Russia today with mass arrests of protesters.

[OAITW r.2.0]

23. Exactly.

[WarGamer]

14. it appears so... particularly their intel and leadership

[BeyondGeography]

15. With a 17th rate economy

Wait, that was before the sanctions.

[hunter]

26. Congratulations, Putin! Russia will be the new North Korea so long as you live.

Wave those nukes proudly!

.

.

.

[keithbvadu2]

30. They are still advancing. Massive firepower. Massive manpower.

They are still advancing. Massive firepower. Massive manpower.

Genius strategy acc to Trump.

[L. Coyote]

34. They better hope North Korera doesn't start getting ideas.

Russia has now lost 374 tanks in Ukraine according to Ukrainian Defense Ministry data. That is more tanks than most European countries possess.

Link to tweet

[OAITW r.2.0]

35. Total Tank Inventory to Destroyed Metric would be a great metric to monitor

Russian military ground status.

[L. Coyote]

37. Over half of Russia's tanks are on the Chinese border.

Last edited Mon Mar 14, 2022, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Talk about a waste: List of main battle tanks by country

The Russian Army Has A Problem: Ukraine Keeps Killing Its Tanks

Russia began the war with 2,840 tanks – that is three times the number of tanks that Ukraine has, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies. If you count infantry fighting vehicles and other armored personnel carriers, Russia has 15,857 armored fighting vehicles. Russia can stand to lose hundreds of tanks and personnel carriers and still prosecute the war.

We should have built windmills instead.

[OAITW r.2.0]

41. 2840*.5 1420 tanks available for destruction?

Seems like a reasonable military investment. (1420*1.25) ~ 1800 Rocket to Tank weapons. Guaranteed the infantry war stops almost immediately.

[Kaleva]

46. Whatever the outcome, the rep of the RU military has taken a major hit

The troops are poorly trained. The officer corps isn't competent. The equipment wasn't maintained properly.

[meadowlander]

47. How do nukes fix his problem?