General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAngry over invasion of Ukraine and fearing crackdown, Russians leave.
Many did not book a return ticket.
Some expressed fury at Russian President Vladimir Putin for the invasion of Ukraine. Others said they were ashamed. Several were afraid to talk.
. . .
Its difficult to assess how many Russians are opposed to the war in Ukraine, with a recent survey by a group of independent research organizations suggesting that a majority back the invasion. But some are rushing to leave Russia for good, as they fear border closures that would isolate them from family abroad, or worry about being conscripted. Those who leave say they vehemently oppose the invasion and were alarmed by the Kremlins chilling crackdown on the few remaining platforms of criticism.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/europe-russians-leaving/
yagotme
(2,847 posts)uppityperson
(115,674 posts)yagotme
(2,847 posts)and the lower level population of the ship sees the water coming in, and is leaving before the water crashes over the bow.
iemanja
(53,001 posts)refers to people who are bad leaving before the worst happens. These are people who do not support the war. They aren't bad simply by being Russian, any more than you were bad for living under Trump.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)yagotme
(2,847 posts)for the explanation you seek from me.
KentuckyWoman
(6,666 posts)to refer to Russian citizens as "Rats". In the US I've deeply disagreed with my government a few times in life. The difference is that I could vote the bums out. Russians can't.
PufPuf23
(8,687 posts)Look brave to me.
Imagine leaving your home country because it had simply become unacceptable and go with a one-way ticket to another country and make a new life.
wnylib
(21,146 posts)If not, North America would still be owned by Native Americans.
During the religious wars (Catholics and Protestants) in Europe people moved in order to live under a ruler of their own faith. Catholics in northern German states moved to southern Germany or Austria. Austrian Protestants left for northern Protestant states. English Protestants went to northern Germany during Queen Mary Tudor's reign and Catholics went to France during her brother Edward's reign.
Jews fled pogroms in Europe many times, and in larger numbers they fled Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s.
Many African Americans moved to places where they could find better work and less dangerous places to live than where they were born.
During the Vietnam War, Americans went to Canada to avoid conscription.
In the Middle East and in Africa, millions of people have fled war torn countries. In South America, people flee gangs and drug lords to seek asylum in the US.
50,000 to 80,000 years ago, modern Homo sapiens moved out of Africa and we've been moving around the globe ever since.
Today's events give us a clearer picture of how and why it happens and what some of our ancestors went through and why.
DemocraticPatriot
(4,170 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)not call them rats.
orangecrush
(19,236 posts)calimary
(80,693 posts)LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)
than our citizens are for what the USA has done. Less so in their case, because their vote really doesnt count.
Apologies for below, I meant to post to this reply and ended up originally posting to the OP.
yagotme
(2,847 posts)"used to refer to people leaving a place, organization, activity, etc. very quickly and in large numbers, because it is failing in some way:"
https://questionstoknow.com/why-do-rats-jump-off-a-ship#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20saying%20about%20%EE%80%80rats%EE%80%81%20%EE%80%80leaving%EE%80%81%20a,to%20abandon%20a%20%EE%80%80ship%EE%80%81%20when%20it%20is%20sinking.
"The original setting for the fleeing rats was a decrepit house, one that was on the verge of falling down. Both rats and mice, in the 16th century, were said to have the ability to know when a structure was on the verge of collapse, and would accordingly decamp some time before this happened."
"Rats have been said to be the first to sense an impending disaster, such as a sinking ship or a gas leak in a mine - so if rats are seen leaving it's a good idea to follow!"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/like-rats-fleeing-a-sinking-ship-history
"The original setting for the fleeing rats was a decrepit house, one that was on the verge of falling down. Both rats and mice, in the 16th century, were said to have the ability to know when a structure was on the verge of collapse, and would accordingly decamp some time before this happened. By the early 17th century the behavior of the rats begins to see use as a simile."
dchill
(38,315 posts)... Russian citizens. Maybe no one will notice.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,296 posts)They don't like what they're seeing Putin do, and they want to get out while they still can.
Walleye
(30,697 posts)iemanja
(53,001 posts)From the above article:
The 58-year-old instructor has a return ticket to Moscow in two weeks, but she doesnt think she will be on the flight. With her 28-year-old son studying at Harvard, she said, she is afraid of a new Iron Curtain rising between the West and Russia that would separate them.
Maybe we deserve it because we allowed the dictator to hold on to power for 20 years, she said. Now, were the country of Putin.
Walleye
(30,697 posts)C Moon
(12,188 posts)I just hope we can avoid WWIII by keeping China from getting involved.
Mr. Evil
(2,746 posts)Since reports today came out that Putin is asking China for armaments to continue his barrage of Ukraine, I'm curious as to what President Xi Jinping would do. If he agrees to help Putin I believe you'll see the largest exodus of American and most any other 'free' nation's manufacturing facilities and other business ties from China. Which would probably also begin a massive reinvestment in manufacturing facilities in Canada, US, Mexico and Europe. I believe that would make Xi and Putin pariahs in the worldview and would have nowhere to go but down.
On the other hand, since the Ruble is now worthless and most likely will be for several years what could make that deal appealing to China? If Putin fails to succeed he would have no way to repay China and no more armaments or army to fight. China could propose to take a significant portion of eastern Russia as payment. Which would make them larger but, still isolated.
Or Xi could have a moment of clarity and ask himself, "who am I better off with in the long run?" Economically and stability wise, with the west would be the obvious answer and leave Putin out in the cold by himself. But, by that time, I think the Russians will have had enough of Putin and will have finally taken care of the problem themselves.
The next few days are going to very interesting or very frightful.
iemanja
(53,001 posts)Count on it.
Mr. Evil
(2,746 posts)But, if I remember recent reporting he doesn't have access to all of it. It really won't last long when the entire Russian population begins to starve.
ZonkerHarris
(24,155 posts)C Moon
(12,188 posts)We'll know if the mideast keeps showing up in the conversation.
iemanja
(53,001 posts)Good point.
Igel
(35,191 posts)Gryzunova?
-ov means essentially "-son". That -a says, "I'm female."
Gryzunova = "Gryzunson."
Gryzun is Russian for "rodent."
Natalia Rodentson.
Yes, it's a real surname. But in the context of rats fleeing a ship ...
iemanja
(53,001 posts)It's ugly.
ChazInAz
(2,534 posts)A young lady with that name once worked for me. She was a tall, strikingly beautiful woman from Saint Petersburg. I used to gently tease her by asking how her grandfather got that name.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)'Cause I'm leaving on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh, babe, I hate to go
I'm leaving on a jet plane
Don't know when I'll be back again
Oh, babe, I hate to go
Walleye
(30,697 posts)Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)As many times as I listened to that record, Album 1700, it was years later before I noticed Denver wrote that song.
Luizy
(43 posts)Buckle up.
calimary
(80,693 posts)Somehow that Bette Davis line came to mind.
Response to iemanja (Original post)
LiberatedUSA This message was self-deleted by its author.
MyMission
(1,845 posts)On our society, our citizens and noncitizens, our environment, our allies, our minorities, etc.
I've thought about leaving my red state, but NC is less red than most, and my vote might help.
Part of me would love to move back to the northeast, part of me wants to prepare for a move away from the US, if tfg and or his cronies gain control again.
I understand why Russians are leaving. Many would go back once putin is gone.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Russia's future has never looked bleaker in my lifetime. It will soon be an impoverished, isolated dystopia like North Korea.