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Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:51 AM Mar 2022

Thoughts about Ukraine. People are so frigging tribal, is that good or bad?

Stripped down to its core, tribalism is just a way of defining "Us vs Them", not necessarily in oppositional terms, but definitely as a way of defining who does and does not belong to a group. And "belonging" carries with it a lot of emotional baggage, some of it positive, some negative.

Americans right now overwhelming identify with the Ukrainian people. I think that is true across all racial lines. I'm white, and acutely aware that white nationalism as a toxic strain infects way too many Caucasians. As a result it's obvious that some whites here have shown minimal at best empathy for the horrific plight that has befallen the peoples of many nations in recent years, be they Syrians, or Haitians, Afghans or Burmese. The darker their features the more "other" victims of violence, political suppression, and natural catastrophes often seem to many white Americans. Of course race isn't the only variable defining "otherness." Factors, like religion, culture, and even political ideology play a role too, often a large one.

Most Americans are at least partially Euro centered in their world views. We share, however imperfectly, what are widely believed to be positive values with people in many European nations, like a basic belief in democracy, free speech, and civil rights in general. Values too can be a basis for tribalism. Clearly, to an extent, a sense of shared values with the people of Ukraine is a part of the powerful empathetic response Americans are now showing to their plight.That empathetic response is unquestionably a good thing. It manifests in other European countries as well, where thousands of families have opened up their houses to provide shared living space with Ukrainian refugees who they have never even met in person. Again, a very good thing. But how does that compare to the empathy being shown to refugees from violence in Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria?

Again, there are some other variables at play. Historically, for a lot of reasons, well situated people have often been numb to the effects of grinding poverty on others, and civil wars of all sorts frequently don't trigger the same type of shock and outrage as an across border invasion by one nation into another. Still, the way Americans as a whole, and I'll admit it - me too, are emotionally responding to the struggle of Ukrainians now is palpably different than it has been to the fate of the citizens of other lands who have suffered greatly in recent years.

I see young mothers, with bright dye still streaked in their hair, fleeing bombardment, pulling some rolling luggage in one hand, tugging a young child wearing a furry stuffed animal shaped backpack with their other, and I instinctively react with "how can this be happening to them?!?" Yes, I identify closely with these people, it happens below the rational level, it is a gut reaction, and it is incredibly strong.

I'm pretty much a card carrying bleeding heart liberal. I have strong gut reactions to the suffering of all people, regardless of how similar they seem to me on the surface. I know we share a common humanity, and that matters greatly to me. But I won't lie. Something amplifies the experience when the victims I am looking at seem like my friends and neighbors, when scenes of the cities they are fleeing look like the ones I spend time in every month. I don't know if I should feel saddened that this even factors into my reflexive emotional response, or gladdened that it helps viscerally move me (not to mention other Americans) to my very core to care passionately about this particular crime against humanity

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Thoughts about Ukraine. People are so frigging tribal, is that good or bad? (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Mar 2022 OP
The quandry we have in modern living: We all want to be part of something bigger than ourselves, Baitball Blogger Mar 2022 #1

Baitball Blogger

(46,700 posts)
1. The quandry we have in modern living: We all want to be part of something bigger than ourselves,
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 12:04 PM
Mar 2022

at the same time that we want to retain our independence and be able to express it without fear of social reprisals.

I can understand why Ukrainians are so tribal. Russia is literally sitting on them. It's their tribalism that is helping them fight this war. Accept no alternatives. That they were reaching out to the West for cultural influences was always a good thing. They just need to know who they can trust and let in.

The rest of us have to learn the same lessons in our own social environment. Frankly, in the US, we're not setting a great example for them when it comes to accepting diversity. I know more than one Ukrainian-American that immigrated into the US properly, but is shamefully racist. How can we hold them accountable when they have plenty of cover for their inappropriate views?

We still have a lot to sort out ourselves.

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