Why not Patriot Missile systems to Ukraine?

[maxrandb]

Seems that the vast majority of the murder of civilians and other war crimes being committed by Russia is from mobile missile launchers and artillery, NOT from bombs and missiles fired from planes.

I am a Navy vet, so I know a lot more about Close-in-Weapons Systems (CIWS), Rolling Air Frame Missiles (RAM), and at one time 5 inch/38 Cal guns that could turn the air into a blanket of shrapnel.

Are we not supplying Patriot Missile systems because that would require American troops on the ground to man them?

[uponit7771]

1. They're already used to S300 and no need to retrain.

[lagomorph777]

11. Can we (Poland?) supply S300 systems?

[uponit7771]

13. Yes, I think that's the idea. Jets offensive AA is defensive is what I've heard their justification

... for this move.

[lagomorph777]

14. Perfect

That should make a big difference.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

23. Plus they have a few Pantsir systems they captured from the Russians

[maxrandb]

30. What a great name for a weapon

Looks like it could depants quite a few, or, when pilots confront it, it could ask; "so you need some new PANTSIR?"

[SheltieLover]

2. Clueless, but train them if that's the issue!

[uponit7771]

5. True, for 8 months (link)

https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1415673/sc-guard-leads-the-way-with-new-missile-training-program/#:~:text=The%20eight%20month%2Dlong%20training,capabilities%20to%20manage%20this%20asset.

During the ceremony held Jan. 6, 2018 in Columbia, South Carolina, 12 Soldiers were recognized after they completed eight months of training hosted by the South Carolina National Guard’s 263rd Army Air Missile Defense Command.

[SheltieLover]

9. Cripes!

No knowledge of military things.

Thx!

[Abnredleg]

7. Complex systems take time to master

This war will be over long before the Ukrainians can get Patriot fielded.

[SheltieLover]

10. Yes. Looks like it.

No military knowledge here.

[Wounded Bear]

3. I thought this was in the works...nt

[lagomorph777]

12. We are sending Patriot systems to Poland.

Maybe Poland can ship their S300 (Soviet antimissile) systems to Ukraine?

[Wounded Bear]

20. OK, I must have misunderstood. That would be something useful, though...nt

[ColinC]

4. I think s300s aren't too far behind the Patriots. And Patriots take months of training

[PoliticAverse]

6. Ukraine actually asked for Patriots and Iron Dome last year...

but that idea got rejected so as not to upset Russia...

See: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-torpedoed-sale-of-iron-dome-to-ukraine-fearing-russian-reaction-report/

Convinced by Israel’s arguments, the US dropped the transfer of both Iron Dome and Patriot missiles.

[uponit7771]

8. Takes 8 months for US soldiers to train on patriot system and that's in English

[BGBD]

15. One important thing to remember

Anything we supply to Ukraine we have to be willing to assume the Russians could capture. There are weapon systems we would rather they were not able to study closely.

[Saboburns]

16. Patriot missiles don't work, and never did.

Useless old junk. Yes I know they got a lot of good press in Iraq 1991, but the truth is that no Patriot missiles ever hit any Iraqi scuds. None. Zero. Although the the press claimed they did.

Don't believe me then google it.

And it's why you haven't heard or read about Patriot missiles in 30 years.

[relayerbob]

18. You clearly know very little about this subject

This is utter nonsense, but something the other side would like us to believe.

[SoonerPride]

22. Actually that is false. The Patiot missiles successes were a myth.

Despite huge press, er propaganda, the system is a miserable failure.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-patriot-missile-is-a-myth-23963

A Congressional Research Service employee commented that if the US army had consistently and accurately applied its assessment method, the number would be far lower. Reportedly, this number was one Scud missile shot down.

Following a House Committee on Government Operations investigation, not enough evidence was found to conclude that there had been any interceptions at all.

There is little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq during the Gulf War," the investigations concluded.

"There are some doubts about even these engagements," it added.

The report, which called for declassifying more information on the Patriot missile and an independent evaluation of the missile defence programme, was crushed under a lobbying campaign by the US army and Raytheon, leaving only a summary publically available.

There is a lot more at the link.

But the fact is the patriot missile system didn't work.

[relayerbob]

24. A - that was 30 years ago and things have changed and is completely irrelevant now in any case

B- The Patriot missile system is the standard SAM missile system in the US. So you're saying we have no air defense capabilities. Look again. It's the most advanced SAM system on Earth, hands down.

C - I'm supposed to believe a Turkish propaganda rag?

[SoonerPride]

28. The question was on Patriot missile system success or failure rate.

Newer updated systems may be more effective.

That wasn't the question.

You said the prior poster knew nothing about how successful the Patriot missile system was.

You were wrong.

It is ok to be wrong.

[relayerbob]

29. Um, no

I was responding to the ridiculous claim that Patriot missiles don't work and that we haven't heard about them in 30 years. I couldn't possibly care less what happened 30 years ago.

[Wounded Bear]

21. I think the technology has improved in the last 30 years...

[Igel]

27. But the source has no interest in that.

The article's at TRT World, "TRT" standing for the "Turkish Radio and Television Corporation," "the national public broadcaster of Turkey" that wants to present the right slant on the news.

Waffles on some things, accurate for some, and for others it really cuts with the bias.

[relayerbob]

17. Yes

The Ukrainians have zero experience with manning, supplying or maintaining them. Also, not good for any to fall into Russian hands. They need more of what they have and know how to use.

[relayerbob]

19. Greece, Slovakia and Bulgaria have S-300 missiles

Those are what would help the Ukrainians the most

[lagomorph777]

25. Sounds good. And I'll bet they'd like some shiny new Patriots.

Some swap potential there.

[relayerbob]

26. 100% agreed