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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOnce again, America is in denial about signs of a fresh Covid wave
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/16/once-again-america-is-in-denial-about-signs-of-a-fresh-covid-waveOnce again, America is in denial about signs of a fresh Covid wave
Eric Topol
When it comes to Covid, the United States specializes in denialism. Deny the human-to-human transmission of the virus when Chinas first cases were publicized in late 2019. Deny that the virus is airborne. Deny the need for boosters across all adult age groups. There are many more examples, but now one stands out learning from other countries.
(snip)
In the past couple of weeks, the UK and several countries in Europe, including Germany, France and Switzerland, are experiencing a new wave. At least 12 countries, geographically extending from Finland to Greece, are experiencing new increases in cases, some quite marked, such as Austria exceeding its pandemic peak, and Finland with an 85% increase from the prior week. Many of these countries are also showing a rise in hospital admissions.
(snip)
Indications within the United States support the idea that new wave is already getting started. Wastewater surveillance is relatively sparse in the United States, but 15% of the 410 sites where it was conducted between 24 February to 10 March 2022 showed a greater than 1000% increase compared with the prior 15-day period. Also, the BA.2 variant is gaining steam in the United States and is now accounting for more than 30% of new cases.
The root cause for the new wave is hard to pin down. Certainly, the BA.2 variant is known to have increased transmission, at least about 30% more than its sister lineage, Omicron BA.1. With the concomitant reduction of mitigation restrictions and waning immunity protection of vaccines, that transmission advantage will increase. This BA.2 triad of factors is thus hard to dissect, as they are clearly interdependent. Rather than focusing on what precisely is driving the new wave, the imperative is to drive some preventive action.
As with the first five warnings from the UK and Europe, the United States did not take heed. Instead of proactively gearing up with non-pharmaceutical interventions (masks, quality of masks, distancing, air filtration, ventilation, aggressive testing, etc.), it just reacted to the surges when they were manifest. Now we are at a point with very low vaccination and booster rates, only 64% of the populations has had two shots, and 29% three shots. That puts the United States at 65th and 70th in the world ranking of countries, respectively.
(snip)
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)So here we go again.
peppertree
(21,630 posts)Freedumb.
Mr. Evil
(2,844 posts)I'm double vaxxed and boosted with Pfizer. They stated recently that recipients of their vaccine and booster may need a 4th shot. I say, no problem.
If the nimrod wing of the citizenry wish to continue to go unmasked and unvaxxed/boosted, then so be it. Dealing with those people is futile.
I haven't come this far through the pandemic to catch it now. If it was recommended to have a booster every Monday morning, I'd be first in line.
Pluvious
(4,310 posts)elias7
(3,998 posts)Short breather before the next wave, like before Delta and before Omicron.
Demovictory9
(32,454 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Jetheels
(991 posts)except for the people working there.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,586 posts)I had just gotten them to understand that, "I wear my mask for you, you wear your mask for me," when the District dropped the mask mandate. "Why do you still wear a mask?" they ask when I show up with my N95 on. "Because now I have to protect myself from you."
indigovalley
(113 posts)They dropped the mask mandate this week. Less than 1/4 of students are wearing masks. Only a handful of staff (myself included).
Patterson
(1,529 posts)LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,586 posts)nitpicker
(7,153 posts)So I mask up.
BUT if there is no one home, I can see people tempted to skip masks.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)how did we go from probable spikes in COVID to patriarchy?
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)That's human stupidity, but that includes everyone, not only males.
AllyCat
(16,187 posts)SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)I've said it before, if a male were to demean females there would be a mad dash to report, dismiss, decapitate and worse on DU, but male bashing is given free rein.
AllyCat
(16,187 posts)It isnt about you. Its about women (and minorities) who are continually marginalized and not part of the decisions.
canetoad
(17,154 posts)And pay attention to the demographic in my town (median age 53) that is still wearing masks and the ones who are not. Overwhelmingly, women are masking and men are not.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)That was a low-count poster though.
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)they'll keep doing it.
My conscience is clean.
snowybirdie
(5,227 posts)about all the refugees pouring into Eastern Europe. No masking and very low vaccination rates. We must remain vigilant.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,195 posts)SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)everyone thinks the pandemic is over and life is back to pre-COVID "normal".
I see hardly anyone taking precautions. No masks, no hand sanitizer stations in stores. Nothing.
Of course there's going to be another spike. People are selfish and stupid and value their "freedumb" over their health.
As a species, the human race is doomed. If not from COVID, then from the next more deadly, more contagious virus waiting in the wings.
maxsolomon
(33,335 posts)Covid is breathed in. Another Spike was inevitable, even if we weren't selfish and stupid. It's how Pandemics & viral diseases work.
Out here in the upper left corner, we're still 100% masked at work, and I see plenty of people wearing masks on the street - even though outdoors is a very unlikely place to contract Covid. I'm going to a concert tomorrow that requires proof of vaccination.
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)put Purel hand sanitizing stations throughout their stores. Just like the common cold virus, the COVID virus could be transmitted from a person's hands to their nose, eyes, or mouth as well. I always sanitized my hands immediately up leaving any public place until I could thoroughly wash them.
I've taken every precaution possible. I do not want COVID, no matter how it's introduced into my body.
Stay healthy.
maxsolomon
(33,335 posts)My wife still makes me sanitize every time we leave a store.
When she's not there, I usually forget. So far, no Covid.
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)Right before COVID started crushing the country in 2020 I had a dream I caught it and was in the hospital. I'm not one to put stock in dreams, but I figure, why press my luck?
You stay healthy in the upper left part of the country. OK?
liberal_mama
(1,495 posts)This was in the first 6 weeks of the pandemic. She got all of her stuff delivered and went nowhere. She thinks she got it from food being dropped off on her porch or from the packages/mail. I do think it's possible to get Covid from surfaces even though health officials say not to worry about getting infected that way.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Cases go up, people start wearing masks, social distance, stay away from large gatherings. Cases drop. Mask mandates are eliminated. People start gathering in groups again, don't observe social distancing, and stop with basic precautions. Cases go up. Rinse and repeat.
Hugin
(33,140 posts)Number of people.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)Unvaxxed,republican magat adults.
I wear my mask out too.n95.
Hugin
(33,140 posts)I hadnt bumped into you for a while.
Not a fan of the current mild and endemic zeitgeist. My stock reply is, Yeah, so is cholera. But, we did something about that.
I find myself wondering if cholera surged, would anything be done? I much prefer rare.
Im sure trying to get through this thing.
Hugin
(33,140 posts)There were in fact two at the national level. I also said there would be no further lockdowns.
This year I am again forecasting at least one wave with no renewed mandates. Vaccination or masking isnt going to happen again even if people are dropping dead in the streets. Public health has become the new political third rail thanks to the irresponsible republicans and their crazy constituencies.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)Link to tweet
?t=RuxP2MyV9-yR9dJz6cCeMg&s=19
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Since UK is having a wave again, we will have a wave as well. Only we do worse than UK because we are less vaccinated.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)That's why our waves are so drawn out. But yeah, it's coming. My booster is 4 months old now. I hope it's still strong enough.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)I got me a second booster in preparation for this wave.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)At least that's how it's been for the previous waves.
aocommunalpunch
(4,237 posts)What a shithole.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
aocommunalpunch
(4,237 posts)SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)I see what you did there!
You wouldn't be hoisting some jackass from his own petard, would you?
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Let me know when vaxxed and boosted individuals are being hospitalized.
Thanks.
Break through case rates for the vaxxed population is like reporting the common cold. Really.
For those of us who are vaccinated, the pandemic is over.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Jeez.
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)Sorry to hear about your relative. You'd think that once you're vaccinated you'd be totally protected, but not with this virus. It hits some people like a jackhammer, and others with k8d gloves.
The best prevention is wearing PPE, sanitizing, and taking all precautions possible. And even then......
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)in the U.S. either.
Lots of people with pre-existing conditions.
Elessar Zappa
(13,988 posts)Boosted individuals have a far, far less of a chance that theyll die or be hospitalized.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)My relative is still dead. Cause of death was covid pneumonia.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)When hubs had surgery, there was not one Covid patient in the hospital.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)What's that going to look like on our healthcare system in 5-10 years? We don't even know.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Unvaccinated people deserve what they get.
I have returned to my prepandemic life and have zero worries.
ZERO.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)What about the immunocompromised? There are far more of those than anyone realizes.
I'm not sure if you're aware how selfish your post sounds?
Immuno compromised people might not develop good antibodies despite being vaccinated and boosted. My relative was on an immuno suppressant medication. Vaccine and booster did nothing for my relative who died from covid. Those who are immuno compromised might think that being vaccinated and boosted they are protected, but it's not necessarily so.
They might have no protection or little protection.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)What is selfish is asking those who have done the right thing to stop living.
I am done with the pandemic.
If I get a cold then so be it.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)Link to tweet
?t=m588lKmfl4Ph9i99_pXOtw&s=19
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)The only thing that matters is the number of ICU beds being taken up by COVID patients and then it only matters if those patients are vaccinated.
If the unvaxed are dying, so be it.
Americans are done with this nonsense now. It's time to get back to a normal life and exist with COVID.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)It is not concerned if you are over it or vaccinated. What is nonsense is thinking you can control that. It will be interesting to see where ICU beds are in 4 weeks. Believe me, I understand that we are tired of Covid. I'm not wishing for this to happen. It's already happening.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)A "less lethal" yet highly contagious virus could probably kill as many if not more because it will infect more people. We just don't know until it actually happens.
ProfessorGAC
(65,013 posts)...this virus will be contrary to the evolutionary biology of virtually all viruses.
A virus becoming more contagious while maintaining virulence kills off too many hosts thereby limiting transmission & reproduction.
A virus becoming more contagious and less pernicious is evolutionarily ideal as the virus can spread with abandon while leaving the host population abundant.
At this point, there's no reason to believe this virus won't follow the familiar path.
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)becomes more deadly. Most everyone who was vaccinated who got Omicron recovered very quickly and did not need to seek hospital care. Like a bad cold. That is how we will live with Covid into the future. Effective vaccines and now we have the pill they can give you once you test positive which prevents you from needing hospitalization. What more can we ask for?
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)I am done.
Vaccinated and boosted and statistically the odds of Covid making me Ill enough for hospitalization is nominal.
I avoided humans and restaurants and movies and friends for two years.
Thats it. Im not worried anymore and refuse to cower in my house anymore.
If Covid infects me I will be fine. Science works and the science unequivocally says those who are vaccinated and boosted are well protected.
Go back to living your life.
You will be fine.
Really.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Finally some Sanity.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Even if you believe yourself immune, or immune to all but a mild disease, your insistence that you will no longer take steps to protect others contributes to new variations and, during a surge, contributes to hospitals being unable to handle non-COVID patients.
Your "cold," isn't a cold. It is a deadly disease. Stop pretending acting like Typhoid Mary is not selfish behavior.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Its 24 pages.
Science works.
The vaccines are highly effective.
Go back to your life.
The pandemic is over.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)About people who are high risk and who can still die and or have longterm damage as this poster and others have made that pretty clear. Many believe they are now immune to ever having any negative outcome with covid whether they have a mild or non mild case and they simply do not care about anyone who does, whether they are unvaccinated or not. Many never really cared at all to be honest or we would not have had the terrible outcomes we have had here. They also do not care about creating new potentially deadly variants obviously because again, they feel they themselves are well protected.
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)We're not in the same place we were 2 years ago. It's time to live a normal life and exist with COVID.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)I took a test and it is negative...feel like crap. I survived Covid before there were any treatments or vaccines...I think in the end...we will be OK.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)Most of a year.
For fully vaxxed people, Covid just isn't a significant risk. Will some vaxxed people die? Yes. But people will also doe from Flu, Norovirus, and everything else imaginable. The numbers do bot represent a public health emergency for the vaccinated population.
My 73 year old mother caught it and basically had a cold. My vaxxinated son caught it at school and was sick for about 3 hours. I was exposed to him without a mask for hours in a car waiting to get tested and didn't get sick.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Vaccinated individuals have no reason to co to us to mask and avoid friends and family.
Science works.
The vaccines work!
CommonHumanity
(246 posts)And to those with long covid which apparently is still a risk for people who have been vaccinated. Add the fact that the long-term damage to our brains and other body systems is still barely understood, but clearly, something that occurs even among the vaccinated and those with so-called mild cases.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Break though cases of long covid are statistically nonexistent.
Crunchy Frog
(26,582 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Read this and stop being afraid.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220216/vaccination-reduces-chance-of-getting-long-covid-studies-say
Crunchy Frog
(26,582 posts)Farmer-Rick
(10,169 posts)Please post it if you have it.
Thanks
CommonHumanity
(246 posts)I would love to see that data too or just be pointed to some reputable sources. I have been trying to keep up with the long Covid info, since that is my biggest personal worry. From what I've gleaned, it is slightly less likely if vaccinated, but still a possibility. Long Covid aside, there is a lot about the long-term impacts of covid on the body that is still unknown and, in my view, it is best to avoid trifling with viruses that are not yet understood.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Read all 24 pages.
Then stop being afraid.
The pandemic is over for vaccinated people.
https://ukhsa.koha-ptfs.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-retrieve-file.pl?id=fe4f10cd3cd509fe045ad4f72ae0dfff
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Facts matter
This is 24 pages of data.
Science works.
The vaccine works.
You are free to live your life.
Really.
https://ukhsa.koha-ptfs.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-retrieve-file.pl?id=fe4f10cd3cd509fe045ad4f72ae0dfff
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts) Six of the 8 studies assessing the effectiveness of vaccination before COVID-19 infection
suggested that vaccinated cases (1 or 2 doses) were less likely to develop symptoms of
long COVID following infection, in the short term (4 weeks after infection), medium term
(12 to 20 weeks after infection) and long term (6 months after infection). As all 8 studies
included only participants who had COVID-19, the effect of vaccination on reduced
incidence of COVID-19 is not accounted for. This means these studies do not give a total
population estimate for the effectiveness of vaccines to prevent long COVID, but rather
underestimate it.
From 2 studies that measured individual long COVID symptoms, fully vaccinated cases
were less likely to have the following symptoms in the medium or long term than
unvaccinated cases: fatigue, headache, weakness in arms and legs, persistent muscle
pain, hair loss, dizziness, shortness of breath, anosmia, interstitial lung disease, myalgia,
and other pain.
1. 6/8 - in other words, 25% did not support that conclusion
2. "Suggested" is not very strong support
2. "Less likely" is not "nominal so as to be nonexistent"
Absolutely nothing in the study supports your bold assertion that the risk is "nominal so as to be nonexistent."
Farmer-Rick
(10,169 posts)I read the study too and wondered where the study gave such reassurance in the case of long COVID.
You broke it down very well.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,606 posts)A lagging indicator, but more accurate than inconsistent testing.
Jose Garcia
(2,595 posts)It can be deadly, but almost always only for the very elderly or those with severe health issues.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Covid for vaxxed people is often (like >90%) asymptomatic or like a mild cold.
Flu is rarely that benign.
Ace Rothstein
(3,161 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Because science works
The vaccines work
The pandemic is over for vaccinated people.
Ace Rothstein
(3,161 posts)A lot of DUers are probably never going to get there.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)The science is clear on this.
The vaccines work.
The pandemic is over for vaccinated people.
Why some on DÜ continue to panic over it boggles my mind.
In 2020 it made sense. But not anymore.
Its over.
Johnny2X2X
(19,065 posts)Here's the thing, regardless of what wave hits us, the CDC has good data on who is getting hospitalized and dying from Covid, and it's unvaccinated people. If 1,000 people die, 920 are unvaccinated, 60 are 1 or 2 shots vaccinated, and 20 are fully boosted.
I am all out of shits to give for those 920, I still care about those other 60+20 though. So we're all going to have to sacrifice again, not for the 920, but for the 80. Suckola.
And here's the kicker, if not for the unvaccinated, no matter what happened, the spread would be much more contained. It spreads more easily among the unvaccinated. It gets them sicker.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I agree but with those numbers perhaps we should just always be masking? Those numbers arent much different from other communicable disease rates where people can die I imagine. So if that is the case then it is hard to say you should wear them for this as opposed to that.
Johnny2X2X
(19,065 posts)There are still some unknowns, but I do know this, if everyone was vaccinated this would barely spread and very few people would get really sick or die from it.
Masks are really not a sacrifice, but staying away from certain places is. Most of what the considerate people in the country are sacrificing for now though is the anti vax idiots who we need to help protect from themselves. If we were 95% vaxxed and boosted, the deaths and hospitalizations would be tiny, not even worth talking about anymore.
If there was a disease going around that might kill 20-25 Americans a day, we wouldn't change anything to help those 25. But because it will kill 1,000+ a day of mostly antivax idiots, we're going to do what it takes to protect them. I tell myself it's for me, my family, and those small % of people who are fully vaxxed and boosted that will get really sick from Covid, but it's a tough pill to swallow now knowing the willful ignorance that kills most of the people from Covid.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Heres the thing. I took a job as a bus driver because they really needed them. Not be ause it was something I necessarily wanted to do although the kids are fun and also sometimes hard to deal with but mostly fun. Anyway, tomorrow they no longer have to wear masks on the bus or in school! Yikes! I am a little bothered by that but definitely will be wearing my mask.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)3% is the current rate.
Politically it is awfully hard to continue asking folks to mask when we say that 10% is the number. Does that mean we should lift mask guidelines? Dunno. Healthwise it would seem yes until we are at least out of the woods enough that we dont just see the trees. But I also dont want it to be more of a midterm issue than it already will be either.
TuskMoar
(83 posts)I got my initial round of vaccines just about a year ago (2 shots). Pfizer
Got boosted about 6 months ago, maybe? Don't really remember the date. (1 shot). (Moderna)
I do not qualify for another booster. I am not immunocompromised, but I am very seriously thinking about getting it anyway. (4th shot).
I hear they are throwing out excess vaccines so I don't feel guilty about taking vaccines from others. Someone change my mind. I know it is against CDC recommendations. But, I have been relaxing my social distancing behavior and will find it very hard to go back.
Someone change my mind?
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)I'm holding off on a second booster until fully vaxed and boosted individuals are dying in huge numbers from COVID. I'd rather not inject myself with any more experimental vaccines unless it's absolutely necessary.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)So how does not getting it qualifies as holding off?
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)If/when that happens I'm not going to rush to get a second booster. I'll wait and see how things play out.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
TuskMoar
(83 posts)We know the short term effect is higher protection against contracting and especially against severe cased of covid.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)take a fourth one personally.
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)I'd rather minimize that risk as much as possible.
liberalla
(9,247 posts)IronLionZion
(45,438 posts)Plenty of Americans are determined to Make COVID Great Again
MichMan
(11,919 posts)budkin
(6,703 posts)People just don't have the stomach for it.
rurallib
(62,413 posts)unless it turns into a monster killer.
AZProgressive
(29,322 posts)I wish we could have more effective vaccine mandates. Lockdown will probably never happen again in the US.
beaglelover
(3,474 posts)Unless the fully vaxed and boosted start dying in large numbers from COVID, you will never see another lockdown (not that we ever really had one) or mask mandate.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)Response to nitpicker (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
maxsolomon
(33,335 posts)America is in the Fatalism portion of the Pandemic: "Hey, if I die, I die." If you're triple-vaxxed without risk factors, it's unlikely you'll get anything worse than a cold.
Remember July 2021, before Delta hit? That was a fun month.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)un-vaxxed. But that's neither here nor there.
barbtries
(28,793 posts)i have to travel next week. i've done my very best to time this travel at the least dangerous time, but my mask will be on. I'm ready for another booster and will sign up for the next gen vaccination as soon as i can. Other than these measures, all i can do it seems is fret.
sigh. y'all stay well.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
barbtries
(28,793 posts)Right now the positive rate in NC, where i live, is down to 2.6%. In Indiana, where I'm going, it's 2.8%. I don't see it getting better than this.
I'll be testing myself and wearing my mask, and just doing my best to avoid crowds. it's for work so i think it's the best i can do.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)First, I arrived at CVS for my fourth Moderna shot - second booster - as I seemed to meet the criteria. It has been 7 months since my last shot, and I'm age eligible according to all reports. When I registered, I answered all their questions and was greeted with "Success! You're eligible for your Moderna booster." But when I got to CVS, I was turned away because I'm not immuno-compromised. OK - I'll wait, but there was a peace of mind in the thought of further protection. No-one in CVS - not shoppers or staff - were masked, other than myself.
I then had my annual appointment with my pulmonologist where masks were required.
Got a great report, and had an interesting discussion w/doc about mask wear and the correlation to better health. He confirms that those patients who continued to mask are his healthiest patients, with no COVID nor colds or flu.
Finally hit Stop & Shop - still masked, only to note that not one other person in the entire store was masked. Very disappointing, since social distancing has also gone out the window.
So, WHEN, not if, COVID comes roaring back, the populace has no-one to blame but themselves for rushing the process and letting guard down. It's so damn simple - wear a damn mask and we'll all be better off.
Response to nitpicker (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)More contagious than omicron? What does that even mean anymore, since omicron was supposed to be soooo extremely contagious.
If it gets me, it gets me. I'm done worrying about it.
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)andym
(5,443 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:59 PM - Edit history (2)
and the number of vaccinated people. The availability of the antivirals coupled with vaccinations should be a game changer.
https://www.wabi.tv/2022/03/12/some-test-to-treat-covid-sites-cvs-walgreens-are-ready-see-patients/
Some test-to-treat COVID sites at CVS, Walgreens are ready to see patients
" (Gray News) - Some Walgreens and CVS Pharmacy locations are now ready to test people for COVID-19 and treat those who test positive with antiviral medicine.
It is part of the White Houses Test-to-Treat initiative.
More than 1,000 pharmacy clinic locations received COVID-19 antiviral pills this week.
The White house says both the COVID testing, and the oral medications are free."
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)And I am definitely more than sick of it. Why do I have to be subjected to this. We are still masking sd and will continue.
Do not forget the lie of telling people masks would not protect them at the start. Hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved and still could be saved if the right decisions are made. They are caving to what biz and many among the masses want as well as other factors.
canetoad
(17,154 posts)Since compulsory masking was ended about three weeks ago, I continue to mask and distance and every day I check the basic Covid figures for the state of Victoria Au.
Today (all figures rounded):
New cases: 9,000 Two days ago: 5,500
Active cases: 42,250 two days ago 36,000
Overnight deaths: 8 Two days ago 3
If any maskhole wants to know why I'm still masking, I have these figures ready to quote.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Or so I was told on DU yesterday, or perhaps Tuesday.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Really.
Trust science.
The vaccines are highly effective.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)just because we can survive it, is not trusting science - it is being stupid.
Vaccines which are highly effective in preventing immediate serious consequences do just that - prevent immediate serious consequences. There are not guarantee that having the disease will not have long-standing impacts.
No one knows what the impact of having had COVID 19 will be years down the road. We alread know of long COVID, brain damage, and heart damage. Even from mild COVID. The damage, in some individuals, extends to the duration of our knowlege (i.e. 2 years). It is more likely than not that many will continue to suffer long-term consequences AND that we will discover more, not less, given that we are just starting to study long-term consequences.
Trusting science includes recognizing that science has its limits, defining where those limits are, and not purporting to know information that is unknowable, and exercising caution when we see trends - like the beginning of long-term consequences regardless of the severity of case.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)But you can continue to deny science as you wish.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)that people who had mild cases of COVID will not be at greater risk for heart attacks 5 years from now. The data already exists to prove the risk is higher for at least 1 year after even mild COVID
The risk of heart failure increased by 72%, or around 12 more people in the COVID-19 group per 1,000 studied. Hospitalization increased the likelihood of future cardiovascular complications, but even people who avoided hospitalization were at higher risk for many conditions.
Nature
People who have had even mild cases of COVID are more likely to have brain damage than those who have not had COVID
Nature
Please provide scientific proof that this damage does not continue.
That the vaccines are effective in preventing immediate severe illness is scientific fact. There is some evidence that vaccination makes it somewhat less likely that people with COVID will experience long-COVID - or that when they certain symptoms are less likely to be experienced. It is NOT scientific fact that the "'risk' is nominal so as to be nonexistent."
Science cannot not know what will happen 10 years out from a disease which has existed for barely more than 2 years. It can only review what exists now and predict what is likely. Based on what we know already it is likely that there will be long-term consequences at least to the heart, lungs, and brain.
You are the one ignoring science.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)NT
Response to SoonerPride (Reply #120)
Kaleva This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)Vaccinations reduce the risks but one should still take precautions such as limiting contact with others, safe distancing when out in public and wearing a mask.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)People with pre-existing conditions (especially immuno compromised) are still very vulnerable. These people comprise a large number of covid deaths. Those who claims that vaccinated don't die don't know what they are talking about.
wiggs
(7,812 posts)wiggs
(7,812 posts)Link to tweet
?cxt=HHwWgsCyhayVg98pAAAA
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Need another booster. We have gotten so far away from doing the right thing in this country.
DFW
(54,372 posts)Not with me or my wife. We will mask up when we go out, and we just got our second boosters last Saturday.
To get the second booster here with no other overt reason, you are supposed to be 70. My wife and I will be 70 this year (me in two daysmy last hours as a sixty-something!), and they accepted us for the shots at the Düsseldorf vaccination center.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Its not so much complacency, as fuck it, Im done. Im seeing more and more people not wearing masks, especially in places where its highly recommended to do so. Next, Im looking for venues to become lax in checking vaccination histories. I think part of it is, too, that people think if theyre fully vaxxed, theyre immune. This may explain why people dont mask after passing through the vax checkpoint. I was at a concert last weekend where most people did just that.
Businesses, too, may be getting tired of being the mask police. The grief they get just isnt worth it anymore.
Human nature. (Full disclosure Ive come to see my mask as an annoyance, but Im making myself wear one when Im around others.)