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nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 01:34 PM Mar 2022

Once again, America is in denial about signs of a fresh Covid wave

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/16/once-again-america-is-in-denial-about-signs-of-a-fresh-covid-wave

Once again, America is in denial about signs of a fresh Covid wave
Eric Topol

When it comes to Covid, the United States specializes in denialism. Deny the human-to-human transmission of the virus when China’s first cases were publicized in late 2019. Deny that the virus is airborne. Deny the need for boosters across all adult age groups. There are many more examples, but now one stands out – learning from other countries.
(snip)

In the past couple of weeks, the UK and several countries in Europe, including Germany, France and Switzerland, are experiencing a new wave. At least 12 countries, geographically extending from Finland to Greece, are experiencing new increases in cases, some quite marked, such as Austria exceeding its pandemic peak, and Finland with an 85% increase from the prior week. Many of these countries are also showing a rise in hospital admissions.
(snip)

Indications within the United States support the idea that new wave is already getting started. Wastewater surveillance is relatively sparse in the United States, but 15% of the 410 sites where it was conducted between 24 February to 10 March 2022 showed a greater than 1000% increase compared with the prior 15-day period. Also, the BA.2 variant is gaining steam in the United States and is now accounting for more than 30% of new cases.

The root cause for the new wave is hard to pin down. Certainly, the BA.2 variant is known to have increased transmission, at least about 30% more than its sister lineage, Omicron BA.1. With the concomitant reduction of mitigation restrictions and waning immunity protection of vaccines, that transmission advantage will increase. This “BA.2 triad” of factors is thus hard to dissect, as they are clearly interdependent. Rather than focusing on what precisely is driving the new wave, the imperative is to drive some preventive action.

As with the first five warnings from the UK and Europe, the United States did not take heed. Instead of proactively gearing up with non-pharmaceutical interventions (masks, quality of masks, distancing, air filtration, ventilation, aggressive testing, etc.), it just reacted to the surges when they were manifest. Now we are at a point with very low vaccination and booster rates, only 64% of the populations has had two shots, and 29% three shots. That puts the United States at 65th and 70th in the world ranking of countries, respectively.
(snip)
147 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Once again, America is in denial about signs of a fresh Covid wave (Original Post) nitpicker Mar 2022 OP
Apparently 74% of us have unmasked. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #1
+1 peppertree Mar 2022 #36
I haven't. Mr. Evil Mar 2022 #57
+1 canetoad Mar 2022 #108
I'm with Mr. Evil !! ( nt ) Pluvious Mar 2022 #144
Temporarily (though we haven't) elias7 Mar 2022 #60
yep. I hope they didn't toss the masks. Going to need them again Demovictory9 Mar 2022 #134
I still wear my mask when I go out. blueinredohio Mar 2022 #2
I seem to be the only one wearing a mask when I go into stores, restaurants, Jetheels Mar 2022 #52
I wear an N95 in classes full of unmasked students. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Mar 2022 #56
Same in the high school where I teach indigovalley Mar 2022 #81
I plan on saying "So I can live long enough to vote against that MFSOBPOS Trump. Patterson Mar 2022 #146
+1000 LastLiberal in PalmSprings Mar 2022 #147
I don't want to take something home nitpicker Mar 2022 #3
Patriarchy, always reactive. Never proactive! SheltieLover Mar 2022 #4
Just curious.... SergeStorms Mar 2022 #8
Same pattern repeated, ad infinitum. SheltieLover Mar 2022 #9
And that's patriarchy? SergeStorms Mar 2022 #15
Men make the majority of decisions, so yes. AllyCat Mar 2022 #40
Pretty broad brush you're using. SergeStorms Mar 2022 #58
Hmmm. So do you also say "not all white people do..." AllyCat Mar 2022 #104
I happen to agree with Sheltie canetoad Mar 2022 #112
Saw somebody else blaming white males for a general stupidity today. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #44
As long as they're allowed carte blanch... SergeStorms Mar 2022 #71
And I worry snowybirdie Mar 2022 #5
We need to be careful LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2022 #6
From what I've seen.... SergeStorms Mar 2022 #7
The sanitizer wasn't doing much. maxsolomon Mar 2022 #61
Yes, but stores (at least here in the northeast) SergeStorms Mar 2022 #68
Yes, we have sanitizing stations everywhere as well. maxsolomon Mar 2022 #74
I'll take anything I can get. SergeStorms Mar 2022 #85
I know someone who never left their single family home and had no people over and she got Covid liberal_mama Mar 2022 #103
Yep, we are doing the same thing over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result. LisaL Mar 2022 #10
So far the response seems to be designed to kill or maim the maximum... Hugin Mar 2022 #13
Hopefully I_UndergroundPanther Mar 2022 #133
Hey, UP. Hugin Mar 2022 #135
This time last year I forecast another wave before the end of the year... Hugin Mar 2022 #11
I'll just leave this here: gldstwmn Mar 2022 #12
We are about 4 weeks behind UK on our waves in US. LisaL Mar 2022 #16
Less vaccinated and a lot more real estate. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #20
We are also fatter. LisaL Mar 2022 #23
You did this on your own? USALiberal Mar 2022 #138
True, and the west coast of the US is about 2-3 weeks behind the east coast. unitedwethrive Mar 2022 #95
America is Number 1? aocommunalpunch Mar 2022 #14
If you are talking about number of dead covid patients, we definitely are Number 1. LisaL Mar 2022 #17
We collect oh so many trophies, don't we? aocommunalpunch Mar 2022 #22
Hey.... SergeStorms Mar 2022 #21
Case rate is essentially meaningless now. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #18
Tell that to my vaxxed and boosted relative who died from covid. LisaL Mar 2022 #19
It's more common than most think. SergeStorms Mar 2022 #25
Especially for those with pre-existing conditions like my relative was. LisaL Mar 2022 #30
No shortage of those people.... SergeStorms Mar 2022 #32
Yep. LisaL Mar 2022 #33
Sorry about your relative but his/her death was a rarity. Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #27
That doesn't help me, does it? LisaL Mar 2022 #28
People dying of Covid now either are not vaccinated fully or they have an underlying condition... Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #86
Breakthrough cases can still get long Covid. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #24
But at such a nominal percentage as to be meaningless. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #26
A nominal percentage of what? Where's the data on that? gldstwmn Mar 2022 #29
Yep. LisaL Mar 2022 #31
I'm so sorry for your loss. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #35
Selfish? How so? I am the one taking the risk, albeit statistically insignificant. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #39
The virus isn't getting weaker, it's getting stronger: gldstwmn Mar 2022 #43
The number of cases is really meaningless at this point. beaglelover Mar 2022 #64
Each time the virus mutates it becomes more contagious. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #84
And less lethal too. Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #88
We don't know that yet. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #93
If Virulence Doesn't Subside... ProfessorGAC Mar 2022 #99
More contagious is what viruses do when they mutate. The important thing is whether or not it beaglelover Mar 2022 #91
Apparently stop living is what some want SoonerPride Mar 2022 #107
Thank you. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #121
You are being selfish because you are acting like Typhoid Mary. Ms. Toad Mar 2022 #124
Exactly. Breakthrough cases can infect others. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #145
Here's the data SoonerPride Mar 2022 #118
Many do not give a damn Meowmee Mar 2022 #123
I'm with you 100%. We have effective vaccines and treatments now. beaglelover Mar 2022 #62
They were advertising medicine yesterday for Covid on the ROKU channel...I have a flu of some sort. Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #87
I've been going as normal for BGBD Mar 2022 #102
This is exactly right. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #109
Long covid CommonHumanity Mar 2022 #34
"risk" is nominal so as to be nonexistent. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #38
Source? Crunchy Frog Mar 2022 #77
Science. Vaccines work. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #110
Webmd? Okay. Crunchy Frog Mar 2022 #125
Yeah, I would really like to see this Data Farmer-Rick Mar 2022 #94
Me too! CommonHumanity Mar 2022 #101
Here you are SoonerPride Mar 2022 #113
Here is the study. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #111
That's not what the study you keep linking to says. Ms. Toad Mar 2022 #127
Thanks Ms Toad Farmer-Rick Mar 2022 #142
I think the stats being used are from sewage samples Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #48
Influenza would be a more apt comparison Jose Garcia Mar 2022 #53
Except flu often has severe effects SoonerPride Mar 2022 #114
I think it is more that people don't care than in denial. Ace Rothstein Mar 2022 #37
Or vaccinated and trust science. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #115
That's where I'm at and I think the majority of the vaccinated. Ace Rothstein Mar 2022 #116
But I thought we were the "we trust science and facts" crowd SoonerPride Mar 2022 #117
Well damnit all Johnny2X2X Mar 2022 #41
I agree but also... CrackityJones75 Mar 2022 #45
You have a point Johnny2X2X Mar 2022 #50
You've really nailed how I feel about it too. CrackityJones75 Mar 2022 #96
Where I live we have been in decline for a month now. CrackityJones75 Mar 2022 #42
A Second Booster (fourth shot) TuskMoar Mar 2022 #46
We still don't know the long term effects of the MRNA vaccines. beaglelover Mar 2022 #67
Second booster hasn't even been approved yet. LisaL Mar 2022 #70
It's approved for some populations, but my comment is assuming that it is approved for everyone. beaglelover Mar 2022 #73
It's only approved for severely immuno compromised. LisaL Mar 2022 #75
True, But TuskMoar Mar 2022 #78
Since you have apparently taken three MRNA vaccines, I would say that ship has sailed. I intend to Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #89
Very true. But if the risk of developing a complication gets larger the more MRNA vaccines you take beaglelover Mar 2022 #92
Bookmarking BA.2 liberalla Mar 2022 #47
Omicron BA.2 sub-variant now nearly a quarter of new COVID cases in U.S., CDC estimates IronLionZion Mar 2022 #49
Time for another lock down? MichMan Mar 2022 #51
That won't happen. budkin Mar 2022 #54
doubt you can get anybody back into masks again either rurallib Mar 2022 #59
It is probably too soon to lift mask mandates AZProgressive Mar 2022 #65
LOL! That will NEVER happen. Business are just now brining people back to the office. beaglelover Mar 2022 #69
There never was a real lockdown. Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Mar 2022 #55
We need a break from the doom and gloom - even if it's illusory. maxsolomon Mar 2022 #63
If you don't have risk factors, you are no likely to die even if you are LisaL Mar 2022 #66
here we go again. barbtries Mar 2022 #72
If you have to travel now is the time, before next wave really takes off in the US. LisaL Mar 2022 #76
that's my theory. barbtries Mar 2022 #80
All of my errands today were somehow COVID related. Totally Tunsie Mar 2022 #79
This message was self-deleted by its author traitorsgalore Mar 2022 #82
I can't anymore ecstatic Mar 2022 #83
GOP is going to have to be more creative with their gerrymandering, just saying n/t AntiFascist Mar 2022 #97
This is the first wave that should be well handled: thanks to Biden's "Test-to-Treat" andym Mar 2022 #98
Great news! nt ecstatic Mar 2022 #105
So much stupid Meowmee Mar 2022 #100
Numbers are going up here too canetoad Mar 2022 #106
Oh, but they are just experiencing the omicron wave - which has already passed us. Ms. Toad Mar 2022 #119
Vaccinated people have nothing to worry about. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #120
Pretending that it's just hunky dory to get an illness about which we have 2 years information, Ms. Toad Mar 2022 #122
It's not pretend. It's science fact. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #126
Please provide proof of the "science fact" Ms. Toad Mar 2022 #128
You don't know what you are talking about. LisaL Mar 2022 #141
This message was self-deleted by its author Kaleva Mar 2022 #136
My brother died of COVID despite having 2 vaccination shots Kaleva Mar 2022 #137
My relative died from covid as well, despite being vaccinated and boosted. LisaL Mar 2022 #140
Yes Kaleva Mar 2022 #143
Looks like BA.2 is 80% more transmissible compared to BA.1, not 30%. nt wiggs Mar 2022 #129
...if I read this correctly. link inside wiggs Mar 2022 #130
Exactly right. Virus increases in wastewater. Pfizer saying we Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2022 #131
Some mask mandates will fall next week here in the EU DFW Mar 2022 #132
I think people are just getting tired. AngryOldDem Mar 2022 #139

Mr. Evil

(2,844 posts)
57. I haven't.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:29 PM
Mar 2022

I'm double vaxxed and boosted with Pfizer. They stated recently that recipients of their vaccine and booster may need a 4th shot. I say, no problem.

If the nimrod wing of the citizenry wish to continue to go unmasked and unvaxxed/boosted, then so be it. Dealing with those people is futile.

canetoad

(17,154 posts)
108. +1
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:05 PM
Mar 2022

I haven't come this far through the pandemic to catch it now. If it was recommended to have a booster every Monday morning, I'd be first in line.

elias7

(3,998 posts)
60. Temporarily (though we haven't)
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:35 PM
Mar 2022

Short breather before the next wave, like before Delta and before Omicron.

 

Jetheels

(991 posts)
52. I seem to be the only one wearing a mask when I go into stores, restaurants,
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:52 PM
Mar 2022

except for the people working there.

56. I wear an N95 in classes full of unmasked students.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:25 PM
Mar 2022

I had just gotten them to understand that, "I wear my mask for you, you wear your mask for me," when the District dropped the mask mandate. "Why do you still wear a mask?" they ask when I show up with my N95 on. "Because now I have to protect myself from you."

indigovalley

(113 posts)
81. Same in the high school where I teach
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:17 PM
Mar 2022

They dropped the mask mandate this week. Less than 1/4 of students are wearing masks. Only a handful of staff (myself included).

nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
3. I don't want to take something home
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 01:43 PM
Mar 2022

So I mask up.

BUT if there is no one home, I can see people tempted to skip masks.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
58. Pretty broad brush you're using.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:30 PM
Mar 2022

I've said it before, if a male were to demean females there would be a mad dash to report, dismiss, decapitate and worse on DU, but male bashing is given free rein.

AllyCat

(16,187 posts)
104. Hmmm. So do you also say "not all white people do..."
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:53 PM
Mar 2022

It isn’t about you. It’s about women (and minorities) who are continually marginalized and not part of the decisions.

canetoad

(17,154 posts)
112. I happen to agree with Sheltie
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:12 PM
Mar 2022

And pay attention to the demographic in my town (median age 53) that is still wearing masks and the ones who are not. Overwhelmingly, women are masking and men are not.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
44. Saw somebody else blaming white males for a general stupidity today.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:33 PM
Mar 2022

That was a low-count poster though.

snowybirdie

(5,227 posts)
5. And I worry
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 01:47 PM
Mar 2022

about all the refugees pouring into Eastern Europe. No masking and very low vaccination rates. We must remain vigilant.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
7. From what I've seen....
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 02:35 PM
Mar 2022

everyone thinks the pandemic is over and life is back to pre-COVID "normal".

I see hardly anyone taking precautions. No masks, no hand sanitizer stations in stores. Nothing.

Of course there's going to be another spike. People are selfish and stupid and value their "freedumb" over their health.

As a species, the human race is doomed. If not from COVID, then from the next more deadly, more contagious virus waiting in the wings.

maxsolomon

(33,335 posts)
61. The sanitizer wasn't doing much.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:36 PM
Mar 2022

Covid is breathed in. Another Spike was inevitable, even if we weren't selfish and stupid. It's how Pandemics & viral diseases work.

Out here in the upper left corner, we're still 100% masked at work, and I see plenty of people wearing masks on the street - even though outdoors is a very unlikely place to contract Covid. I'm going to a concert tomorrow that requires proof of vaccination.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
68. Yes, but stores (at least here in the northeast)
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:45 PM
Mar 2022

put Purel hand sanitizing stations throughout their stores. Just like the common cold virus, the COVID virus could be transmitted from a person's hands to their nose, eyes, or mouth as well. I always sanitized my hands immediately up leaving any public place until I could thoroughly wash them.

I've taken every precaution possible. I do not want COVID, no matter how it's introduced into my body.

Stay healthy.

maxsolomon

(33,335 posts)
74. Yes, we have sanitizing stations everywhere as well.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:50 PM
Mar 2022

My wife still makes me sanitize every time we leave a store.

When she's not there, I usually forget. So far, no Covid.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
85. I'll take anything I can get.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:47 PM
Mar 2022

Right before COVID started crushing the country in 2020 I had a dream I caught it and was in the hospital. I'm not one to put stock in dreams, but I figure, why press my luck?

You stay healthy in the upper left part of the country. OK?

liberal_mama

(1,495 posts)
103. I know someone who never left their single family home and had no people over and she got Covid
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:51 PM
Mar 2022

This was in the first 6 weeks of the pandemic. She got all of her stuff delivered and went nowhere. She thinks she got it from food being dropped off on her porch or from the packages/mail. I do think it's possible to get Covid from surfaces even though health officials say not to worry about getting infected that way.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
10. Yep, we are doing the same thing over and over again, yet somehow expecting a different result.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 02:50 PM
Mar 2022

Cases go up, people start wearing masks, social distance, stay away from large gatherings. Cases drop. Mask mandates are eliminated. People start gathering in groups again, don't observe social distancing, and stop with basic precautions. Cases go up. Rinse and repeat.

Hugin

(33,140 posts)
135. Hey, UP.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 07:59 AM
Mar 2022

I hadn’t bumped into you for a while.

Not a fan of the current ‘mild and endemic’ zeitgeist. My stock reply is, “Yeah, so is cholera. But, we did something about that.”

I find myself wondering if cholera surged, would anything be done? I much prefer rare.

I’m sure trying to get through this thing.

Hugin

(33,140 posts)
11. This time last year I forecast another wave before the end of the year...
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 02:50 PM
Mar 2022

There were in fact two at the national level. I also said there would be no further ‘lockdowns’.

This year I am again forecasting at least one wave with no renewed mandates. Vaccination or masking isn’t going to happen again even if people are dropping dead in the streets. Public health has become the new political third rail thanks to the irresponsible republicans and their crazy constituencies.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
16. We are about 4 weeks behind UK on our waves in US.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:00 PM
Mar 2022

Since UK is having a wave again, we will have a wave as well. Only we do worse than UK because we are less vaccinated.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
20. Less vaccinated and a lot more real estate.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:04 PM
Mar 2022

That's why our waves are so drawn out. But yeah, it's coming. My booster is 4 months old now. I hope it's still strong enough.

unitedwethrive

(1,997 posts)
95. True, and the west coast of the US is about 2-3 weeks behind the east coast.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 06:21 PM
Mar 2022

At least that's how it's been for the previous waves.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
18. Case rate is essentially meaningless now.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:01 PM
Mar 2022

Let me know when vaxxed and boosted individuals are being hospitalized.

Thanks.

Break through case rates for the vaxxed population is like reporting the common cold. Really.

For those of us who are vaccinated, the pandemic is over.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
25. It's more common than most think.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:09 PM
Mar 2022

Sorry to hear about your relative. You'd think that once you're vaccinated you'd be totally protected, but not with this virus. It hits some people like a jackhammer, and others with k8d gloves.

The best prevention is wearing PPE, sanitizing, and taking all precautions possible. And even then......

Elessar Zappa

(13,988 posts)
27. Sorry about your relative but his/her death was a rarity.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:11 PM
Mar 2022

Boosted individuals have a far, far less of a chance that they’ll die or be hospitalized.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
86. People dying of Covid now either are not vaccinated fully or they have an underlying condition...
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:51 PM
Mar 2022

When hubs had surgery, there was not one Covid patient in the hospital.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
24. Breakthrough cases can still get long Covid.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:09 PM
Mar 2022

What's that going to look like on our healthcare system in 5-10 years? We don't even know.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
26. But at such a nominal percentage as to be meaningless.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:10 PM
Mar 2022

Unvaccinated people deserve what they get.

I have returned to my prepandemic life and have zero worries.

ZERO.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
29. A nominal percentage of what? Where's the data on that?
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:15 PM
Mar 2022

What about the immunocompromised? There are far more of those than anyone realizes.
I'm not sure if you're aware how selfish your post sounds?

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
31. Yep.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:18 PM
Mar 2022

Immuno compromised people might not develop good antibodies despite being vaccinated and boosted. My relative was on an immuno suppressant medication. Vaccine and booster did nothing for my relative who died from covid. Those who are immuno compromised might think that being vaccinated and boosted they are protected, but it's not necessarily so.
They might have no protection or little protection.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
39. Selfish? How so? I am the one taking the risk, albeit statistically insignificant.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:28 PM
Mar 2022

What is selfish is asking those who have done the right thing to stop living.

I am done with the pandemic.

If I get a cold then so be it.

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
64. The number of cases is really meaningless at this point.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:41 PM
Mar 2022

The only thing that matters is the number of ICU beds being taken up by COVID patients and then it only matters if those patients are vaccinated.

If the unvaxed are dying, so be it.

Americans are done with this nonsense now. It's time to get back to a normal life and exist with COVID.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
84. Each time the virus mutates it becomes more contagious.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:38 PM
Mar 2022

It is not concerned if you are over it or vaccinated. What is nonsense is thinking you can control that. It will be interesting to see where ICU beds are in 4 weeks. Believe me, I understand that we are tired of Covid. I'm not wishing for this to happen. It's already happening.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
93. We don't know that yet.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 06:00 PM
Mar 2022

A "less lethal" yet highly contagious virus could probably kill as many if not more because it will infect more people. We just don't know until it actually happens.

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
99. If Virulence Doesn't Subside...
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 07:14 PM
Mar 2022

...this virus will be contrary to the evolutionary biology of virtually all viruses.
A virus becoming more contagious while maintaining virulence kills off too many hosts thereby limiting transmission & reproduction.
A virus becoming more contagious and less pernicious is evolutionarily ideal as the virus can spread with abandon while leaving the host population abundant.
At this point, there's no reason to believe this virus won't follow the familiar path.

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
91. More contagious is what viruses do when they mutate. The important thing is whether or not it
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:57 PM
Mar 2022

becomes more deadly. Most everyone who was vaccinated who got Omicron recovered very quickly and did not need to seek hospital care. Like a bad cold. That is how we will live with Covid into the future. Effective vaccines and now we have the pill they can give you once you test positive which prevents you from needing hospitalization. What more can we ask for?

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
107. Apparently stop living is what some want
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:05 PM
Mar 2022

I am done.

Vaccinated and boosted and statistically the odds of Covid making me Ill enough for hospitalization is nominal.

I avoided humans and restaurants and movies and friends for two years.

That’s it. I’m not worried anymore and refuse to cower in my house anymore.

If Covid infects me I will be fine. Science works and the science unequivocally says those who are vaccinated and boosted are well protected.

Go back to living your life.

You will be fine.

Really.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
124. You are being selfish because you are acting like Typhoid Mary.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:42 PM
Mar 2022

Even if you believe yourself immune, or immune to all but a mild disease, your insistence that you will no longer take steps to protect others contributes to new variations and, during a surge, contributes to hospitals being unable to handle non-COVID patients.

Your "cold," isn't a cold. It is a deadly disease. Stop pretending acting like Typhoid Mary is not selfish behavior.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
123. Many do not give a damn
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:38 PM
Mar 2022

About people who are high risk and who can still die and or have longterm damage as this poster and others have made that pretty clear. Many believe they are now immune to ever having any negative outcome with covid whether they have a mild or non mild case and they simply do not care about anyone who does, whether they are unvaccinated or not. Many never really cared at all to be honest or we would not have had the terrible outcomes we have had here. They also do not care about creating new potentially deadly variants obviously because again, they feel they themselves are well protected.

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
62. I'm with you 100%. We have effective vaccines and treatments now.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:37 PM
Mar 2022

We're not in the same place we were 2 years ago. It's time to live a normal life and exist with COVID.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
87. They were advertising medicine yesterday for Covid on the ROKU channel...I have a flu of some sort.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:54 PM
Mar 2022

I took a test and it is negative...feel like crap. I survived Covid before there were any treatments or vaccines...I think in the end...we will be OK.

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
102. I've been going as normal for
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 09:58 PM
Mar 2022

Most of a year.

For fully vaxxed people, Covid just isn't a significant risk. Will some vaxxed people die? Yes. But people will also doe from Flu, Norovirus, and everything else imaginable. The numbers do bot represent a public health emergency for the vaccinated population.

My 73 year old mother caught it and basically had a cold. My vaxxinated son caught it at school and was sick for about 3 hours. I was exposed to him without a mask for hours in a car waiting to get tested and didn't get sick.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
109. This is exactly right.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:07 PM
Mar 2022

Vaccinated individuals have no reason to co to us to mask and avoid friends and family.

Science works.

The vaccines work!

CommonHumanity

(246 posts)
34. Long covid
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:21 PM
Mar 2022

And to those with long covid which apparently is still a risk for people who have been vaccinated. Add the fact that the long-term damage to our brains and other body systems is still barely understood, but clearly, something that occurs even among the vaccinated and those with so-called mild cases.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
38. "risk" is nominal so as to be nonexistent.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:26 PM
Mar 2022

Break though cases of long covid are statistically nonexistent.

CommonHumanity

(246 posts)
101. Me too!
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 09:29 PM
Mar 2022

I would love to see that data too or just be pointed to some reputable sources. I have been trying to keep up with the long Covid info, since that is my biggest personal worry. From what I've gleaned, it is slightly less likely if vaccinated, but still a possibility. Long Covid aside, there is a lot about the long-term impacts of covid on the body that is still unknown and, in my view, it is best to avoid trifling with viruses that are not yet understood.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
127. That's not what the study you keep linking to says.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 12:03 AM
Mar 2022

Six of the 8 studies assessing the effectiveness of vaccination before COVID-19 infection
suggested that vaccinated cases (1 or 2 doses) were less likely to develop symptoms of
long COVID following infection
, in the short term (4 weeks after infection), medium term
(12 to 20 weeks after infection) and long term (6 months after infection). As all 8 studies
included only participants who had COVID-19, the effect of vaccination on reduced
incidence of COVID-19 is not accounted for. This means these studies do not give a total
population estimate for the effectiveness of vaccines to prevent long COVID, but rather
underestimate it.

• From 2 studies that measured individual long COVID symptoms, fully vaccinated cases
were less likely to have the following symptoms
in the medium or long term than
unvaccinated cases: fatigue, headache, weakness in arms and legs, persistent muscle
pain, hair loss, dizziness, shortness of breath, anosmia, interstitial lung disease, myalgia,
and other pain.


1. 6/8 - in other words, 25% did not support that conclusion
2. "Suggested" is not very strong support
2. "Less likely" is not "nominal so as to be nonexistent"

Absolutely nothing in the study supports your bold assertion that the risk is "nominal so as to be nonexistent."

Farmer-Rick

(10,169 posts)
142. Thanks Ms Toad
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:35 AM
Mar 2022

I read the study too and wondered where the study gave such reassurance in the case of long COVID.

You broke it down very well.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,606 posts)
48. I think the stats being used are from sewage samples
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:43 PM
Mar 2022

A lagging indicator, but more accurate than inconsistent testing.

Jose Garcia

(2,595 posts)
53. Influenza would be a more apt comparison
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:53 PM
Mar 2022

It can be deadly, but almost always only for the very elderly or those with severe health issues.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
114. Except flu often has severe effects
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:14 PM
Mar 2022

Covid for vaxxed people is often (like >90%) asymptomatic or like a mild cold.

Flu is rarely that benign.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
115. Or vaccinated and trust science.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:15 PM
Mar 2022

Because science works

The vaccines work

The pandemic is over for vaccinated people.

Ace Rothstein

(3,161 posts)
116. That's where I'm at and I think the majority of the vaccinated.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:17 PM
Mar 2022

A lot of DUers are probably never going to get there.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
117. But I thought we were the "we trust science and facts" crowd
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:19 PM
Mar 2022

The science is clear on this.

The vaccines work.

The pandemic is over for vaccinated people.

Why some on DÜ continue to panic over it boggles my mind.

In 2020 it made sense. But not anymore.

It’s over.

Johnny2X2X

(19,065 posts)
41. Well damnit all
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:30 PM
Mar 2022

Here's the thing, regardless of what wave hits us, the CDC has good data on who is getting hospitalized and dying from Covid, and it's unvaccinated people. If 1,000 people die, 920 are unvaccinated, 60 are 1 or 2 shots vaccinated, and 20 are fully boosted.

I am all out of shits to give for those 920, I still care about those other 60+20 though. So we're all going to have to sacrifice again, not for the 920, but for the 80. Suckola.

And here's the kicker, if not for the unvaccinated, no matter what happened, the spread would be much more contained. It spreads more easily among the unvaccinated. It gets them sicker.

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
45. I agree but also...
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:34 PM
Mar 2022

I agree but with those numbers perhaps we should just always be masking? Those numbers aren’t much different from other communicable disease rates where people can die I imagine. So if that is the case then it is hard to say you should wear them for this as opposed to that.

Johnny2X2X

(19,065 posts)
50. You have a point
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:51 PM
Mar 2022

There are still some unknowns, but I do know this, if everyone was vaccinated this would barely spread and very few people would get really sick or die from it.

Masks are really not a sacrifice, but staying away from certain places is. Most of what the considerate people in the country are sacrificing for now though is the anti vax idiots who we need to help protect from themselves. If we were 95% vaxxed and boosted, the deaths and hospitalizations would be tiny, not even worth talking about anymore.

If there was a disease going around that might kill 20-25 Americans a day, we wouldn't change anything to help those 25. But because it will kill 1,000+ a day of mostly antivax idiots, we're going to do what it takes to protect them. I tell myself it's for me, my family, and those small % of people who are fully vaxxed and boosted that will get really sick from Covid, but it's a tough pill to swallow now knowing the willful ignorance that kills most of the people from Covid.

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
96. You've really nailed how I feel about it too.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 06:49 PM
Mar 2022

Here’s the thing. I took a job as a bus driver because they really needed them. Not be ause it was something I necessarily wanted to do although the kids are fun and also sometimes hard to deal with but mostly fun. Anyway, tomorrow they no longer have to wear masks on the bus or in school! Yikes! I am a little bothered by that but definitely will be wearing my mask.

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
42. Where I live we have been in decline for a month now.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:32 PM
Mar 2022

3% is the current rate.

Politically it is awfully hard to continue asking folks to mask when we say that 10% is the number. Does that mean we should lift mask guidelines? Dunno. Healthwise it would seem yes until we are at least out of the woods enough that we don’t just see the trees. But I also don’t want it to be more of a midterm issue than it already will be either.

TuskMoar

(83 posts)
46. A Second Booster (fourth shot)
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 03:37 PM
Mar 2022

I got my initial round of vaccines just about a year ago (2 shots). Pfizer

Got boosted about 6 months ago, maybe? Don't really remember the date. (1 shot). (Moderna)

I do not qualify for another booster. I am not immunocompromised, but I am very seriously thinking about getting it anyway. (4th shot).

I hear they are throwing out excess vaccines so I don't feel guilty about taking vaccines from others. Someone change my mind. I know it is against CDC recommendations. But, I have been relaxing my social distancing behavior and will find it very hard to go back.

Someone change my mind?

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
67. We still don't know the long term effects of the MRNA vaccines.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:44 PM
Mar 2022

I'm holding off on a second booster until fully vaxed and boosted individuals are dying in huge numbers from COVID. I'd rather not inject myself with any more experimental vaccines unless it's absolutely necessary.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
70. Second booster hasn't even been approved yet.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:47 PM
Mar 2022

So how does not getting it qualifies as holding off?

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
73. It's approved for some populations, but my comment is assuming that it is approved for everyone.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:49 PM
Mar 2022

If/when that happens I'm not going to rush to get a second booster. I'll wait and see how things play out.

TuskMoar

(83 posts)
78. True, But
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:03 PM
Mar 2022

We know the short term effect is higher protection against contracting and especially against severe cased of covid.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
89. Since you have apparently taken three MRNA vaccines, I would say that ship has sailed. I intend to
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:56 PM
Mar 2022

take a fourth one personally.

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
92. Very true. But if the risk of developing a complication gets larger the more MRNA vaccines you take
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:58 PM
Mar 2022

I'd rather minimize that risk as much as possible.

AZProgressive

(29,322 posts)
65. It is probably too soon to lift mask mandates
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:41 PM
Mar 2022

I wish we could have more effective vaccine mandates. Lockdown will probably never happen again in the US.

beaglelover

(3,474 posts)
69. LOL! That will NEVER happen. Business are just now brining people back to the office.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:46 PM
Mar 2022

Unless the fully vaxed and boosted start dying in large numbers from COVID, you will never see another lockdown (not that we ever really had one) or mask mandate.

Response to nitpicker (Original post)

maxsolomon

(33,335 posts)
63. We need a break from the doom and gloom - even if it's illusory.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:40 PM
Mar 2022

America is in the Fatalism portion of the Pandemic: "Hey, if I die, I die." If you're triple-vaxxed without risk factors, it's unlikely you'll get anything worse than a cold.

Remember July 2021, before Delta hit? That was a fun month.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
66. If you don't have risk factors, you are no likely to die even if you are
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:42 PM
Mar 2022

un-vaxxed. But that's neither here nor there.

barbtries

(28,793 posts)
72. here we go again.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 04:49 PM
Mar 2022

i have to travel next week. i've done my very best to time this travel at the least dangerous time, but my mask will be on. I'm ready for another booster and will sign up for the next gen vaccination as soon as i can. Other than these measures, all i can do it seems is fret.

sigh. y'all stay well.

barbtries

(28,793 posts)
80. that's my theory.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:06 PM
Mar 2022

Right now the positive rate in NC, where i live, is down to 2.6%. In Indiana, where I'm going, it's 2.8%. I don't see it getting better than this.

I'll be testing myself and wearing my mask, and just doing my best to avoid crowds. it's for work so i think it's the best i can do.

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
79. All of my errands today were somehow COVID related.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:03 PM
Mar 2022

First, I arrived at CVS for my fourth Moderna shot - second booster - as I seemed to meet the criteria. It has been 7 months since my last shot, and I'm age eligible according to all reports. When I registered, I answered all their questions and was greeted with "Success! You're eligible for your Moderna booster." But when I got to CVS, I was turned away because I'm not immuno-compromised. OK - I'll wait, but there was a peace of mind in the thought of further protection. No-one in CVS - not shoppers or staff - were masked, other than myself.

I then had my annual appointment with my pulmonologist where masks were required.
Got a great report, and had an interesting discussion w/doc about mask wear and the correlation to better health. He confirms that those patients who continued to mask are his healthiest patients, with no COVID nor colds or flu.

Finally hit Stop & Shop - still masked, only to note that not one other person in the entire store was masked. Very disappointing, since social distancing has also gone out the window.

So, WHEN, not if, COVID comes roaring back, the populace has no-one to blame but themselves for rushing the process and letting guard down. It's so damn simple - wear a damn mask and we'll all be better off.

Response to nitpicker (Original post)

ecstatic

(32,701 posts)
83. I can't anymore
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 05:32 PM
Mar 2022

More contagious than omicron? What does that even mean anymore, since omicron was supposed to be soooo extremely contagious.

If it gets me, it gets me. I'm done worrying about it.

andym

(5,443 posts)
98. This is the first wave that should be well handled: thanks to Biden's "Test-to-Treat"
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 06:57 PM
Mar 2022

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:59 PM - Edit history (2)

and the number of vaccinated people. The availability of the antivirals coupled with vaccinations should be a game changer.

https://www.wabi.tv/2022/03/12/some-test-to-treat-covid-sites-cvs-walgreens-are-ready-see-patients/
Some ‘test-to-treat’ COVID sites at CVS, Walgreens are ready to see patients
" (Gray News) - Some Walgreens and CVS Pharmacy locations are now ready to test people for COVID-19 and treat those who test positive with antiviral medicine.

It is part of the White House’s “Test-to-Treat” initiative.

More than 1,000 pharmacy clinic locations received COVID-19 antiviral pills this week.

The White house says both the COVID testing, and the oral medications are free."

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
100. So much stupid
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 07:28 PM
Mar 2022

And I am definitely more than sick of it. Why do I have to be subjected to this. We are still masking sd and will continue.

Do not forget the lie of telling people masks would not protect them at the start. Hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved and still could be saved if the right decisions are made. They are caving to what biz and many among the masses want as well as other factors.

canetoad

(17,154 posts)
106. Numbers are going up here too
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:03 PM
Mar 2022

Since compulsory masking was ended about three weeks ago, I continue to mask and distance and every day I check the basic Covid figures for the state of Victoria Au.

Today (all figures rounded):

New cases: 9,000 Two days ago: 5,500
Active cases: 42,250 two days ago 36,000
Overnight deaths: 8 Two days ago 3

If any maskhole wants to know why I'm still masking, I have these figures ready to quote.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
119. Oh, but they are just experiencing the omicron wave - which has already passed us.
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:23 PM
Mar 2022


Or so I was told on DU yesterday, or perhaps Tuesday.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
122. Pretending that it's just hunky dory to get an illness about which we have 2 years information,
Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:36 PM
Mar 2022

just because we can survive it, is not trusting science - it is being stupid.

Vaccines which are highly effective in preventing immediate serious consequences do just that - prevent immediate serious consequences. There are not guarantee that having the disease will not have long-standing impacts.

No one knows what the impact of having had COVID 19 will be years down the road. We alread know of long COVID, brain damage, and heart damage. Even from mild COVID. The damage, in some individuals, extends to the duration of our knowlege (i.e. 2 years). It is more likely than not that many will continue to suffer long-term consequences AND that we will discover more, not less, given that we are just starting to study long-term consequences.

Trusting science includes recognizing that science has its limits, defining where those limits are, and not purporting to know information that is unknowable, and exercising caution when we see trends - like the beginning of long-term consequences regardless of the severity of case.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
128. Please provide proof of the "science fact"
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 12:27 AM
Mar 2022

that people who had mild cases of COVID will not be at greater risk for heart attacks 5 years from now. The data already exists to prove the risk is higher for at least 1 year after even mild COVID

People who had recovered from COVID-19 showed stark increases in 20 cardiovascular problems over the year after infection. For example, they were 52% more likely to have had a stroke than the contemporary control group, meaning that, out of every 1,000 people studied, there were around 4 more people in the COVID-19 group than in the control group who experienced stroke.

The risk of heart failure increased by 72%, or around 12 more people in the COVID-19 group per 1,000 studied. Hospitalization increased the likelihood of future cardiovascular complications, but even people who avoided hospitalization were at higher risk for many conditions.


Nature

People who have had even mild cases of COVID are more likely to have brain damage than those who have not had COVID

Here, we investigated brain changes in 785 UK Biobank participants (aged 51–81) imaged twice, including 401 cases who tested positive for infection with SARS-CoV-2 between their two scans, with 141 days on average separating their diagnosis and second scan, and 384 controls. The availability of pre-infection imaging data reduces the likelihood of pre-existing risk factors being misinterpreted as disease effects. We identified significant longitudinal effects when comparing the two groups, including: (i) greater reduction in grey matter thickness and tissue-contrast in the orbitofrontal cortex and parahippocampal gyrus, (ii) greater changes in markers of tissue damage in regions functionally-connected to the primary olfactory cortex, and (iii) greater reduction in global brain size. The infected participants also showed on average larger cognitive decline between the two timepoints. Importantly, these imaging and cognitive longitudinal effects were still seen after excluding the 15 cases who had been hospitalised.


Nature

Please provide scientific proof that this damage does not continue.

That the vaccines are effective in preventing immediate severe illness is scientific fact. There is some evidence that vaccination makes it somewhat less likely that people with COVID will experience long-COVID - or that when they certain symptoms are less likely to be experienced. It is NOT scientific fact that the "'risk' is nominal so as to be nonexistent."

Science cannot not know what will happen 10 years out from a disease which has existed for barely more than 2 years. It can only review what exists now and predict what is likely. Based on what we know already it is likely that there will be long-term consequences at least to the heart, lungs, and brain.

You are the one ignoring science.

Response to SoonerPride (Reply #120)

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
137. My brother died of COVID despite having 2 vaccination shots
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:10 AM
Mar 2022

Vaccinations reduce the risks but one should still take precautions such as limiting contact with others, safe distancing when out in public and wearing a mask.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
140. My relative died from covid as well, despite being vaccinated and boosted.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:30 AM
Mar 2022

People with pre-existing conditions (especially immuno compromised) are still very vulnerable. These people comprise a large number of covid deaths. Those who claims that vaccinated don't die don't know what they are talking about.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
131. Exactly right. Virus increases in wastewater. Pfizer saying we
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 01:27 AM
Mar 2022

Need another booster. We have gotten so far away from doing the right thing in this country.

DFW

(54,372 posts)
132. Some mask mandates will fall next week here in the EU
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 02:08 AM
Mar 2022

Not with me or my wife. We will mask up when we go out, and we just got our second boosters last Saturday.

To get the second booster here with no other overt reason, you are supposed to be 70. My wife and I will be 70 this year (me in two days—my last hours as a sixty-something!), and they accepted us for the shots at the Düsseldorf vaccination center.

AngryOldDem

(14,061 posts)
139. I think people are just getting tired.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:24 AM
Mar 2022

It’s not so much complacency, as “fuck it, I’m done”. I’m seeing more and more people not wearing masks, especially in places where it’s “highly recommended” to do so. Next, I’m looking for venues to become lax in checking vaccination histories. I think part of it is, too, that people think if they’re fully vaxxed, they’re immune. This may explain why people don’t mask after passing through the vax checkpoint. I was at a concert last weekend where most people did just that.

Businesses, too, may be getting tired of being the mask police. The grief they get just isn’t worth it anymore.

Human nature. (Full disclosure — I’ve come to see my mask as an annoyance, but I’m making myself wear one when I’m around others.)

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