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H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 02:22 PM Mar 2022

Water Falls

"... So out there in this pristine, shall we say, land where everybody wants to go and see and be for a little while, that's the beauty of a place and sometimes, there's people there who are so unintrusive that you don't even see them. They've acclimated to the place. They live there with it as part of it. And that's the people who have a knowledge."
-- Faithkeeper Oren Lyons, Onondaga Nation; Interview with Bill Moyers; 1991.



When we moved into this house in 1995, some of the few nearby neighbors stopped over to welcome us. I learned that another, who lived across the road, had lived in the house some seventy years earlier. His name was Fred, though my four year old daughter called him "Old Fred," convinced he was the character from the Beatles movie "Yellow Submarine." As Fred was in his early 90s, I don't think he minded.

I rarely saw Fred outside, and when I did, he was usually walking home after spending time at the waterfalls. A c0-worker at the mental health clinic had grown up in the neighborhood, and so I asked her about him. She said she knew his children from school, but could only remember seeing him a couple of times. "He's a hermit, you know," she said. "And he has been for a long time.

Soon, I began taking produce from my garden to Fred's door -- not frequently enough to be a pest, but to use those opportunities to ask him about local history. Eventually, he became comfortable answering my questions. I remember one winter's day, after a significant snow storm, he and I were shoveling out our mailboxes, along with a couple neighbors' which were next to our's. When he took a break -- being in his 90's! -- he explained that as a young man, he learned local history from the old men, born after the Civil War. In turn, he said, they had learned from the old men before them.

Fred remained a hermit for his remaining years, but seemed to enjoy talking to me and granted full access for us to swim at his waterfalls across the road. His only request was that we leave no trash, something we would never have done anyhow. He told me how he used to camp out next to the falls when he was young, because he loved the sound of the flowing water.

This reminds me of conversations that I had over the years with another elder when we sat near creeks and streams. Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman told me about how, as a kid, he liked to sit on a hillside and drink spring water as it gurgled from the ground. That was something my late brother and I did as kids, when we took breaks from clearing stones from the hillside pasture -- after clearing brush.

One night, Paul's daughter told me that he had suffered a stroke, and that I should visit him in the hospital the following day. I was expecting the worst as I made my way to his hospital room, but was happily surprised that he was awake and talking to several nurses. As we talked, I thought I'd do an interview with him for a newspaper I wrote for. I wanted people to learn from another point of view not often even mentioned in the mainstream media. In time, I would do four interviews for publication that I thought were pretty darned good. More, my supervisor at work -- a former English teacher -- said that they represented the best record of a past era that the current society needed to read and understand. I will include a few things Paul said that may relate to these troubling times.

In the first interview, keeping in mind the quote from Oren, I asked how long the Onondaga had lived here? "The first words spoken by my people were the names of the alligator and of the turtle. How old are these animals? And how long have they lived here, on this land? We have ceremonies with dances where these animals are involved. Think about that, and you'll understand how old the Onondaga are, and how long we've lived here."

As the year 2000 approached, a lot of people were concerned that Y2K would cause wide-spread computer failures, resulting in a global crisis. I asked Paul about this? "Listen: if the Creator wants to bring dinosaurs back, they'll be on your front lawn tomorrow. And if he wants to end the world, he will."

At a time when many religious people were praying for divine intervention, I asked Paul what he thought? "Be a good neighbor. If my garden is ready before yours, we should share mine now, and yours later. Too many people don't understand the power of sharing. You have to rememmber that all of the earth is the Creator's garden, and he shares it with us. That's why I say that sharing is divine intervention."

The last question of the final interview was about what message he had for readers? "Live. Don't be afraid to live. We can live through this.

"I did reburials at the Penn Site. Germ warfare killed them. At the Bloody Hill Site, it was small pox. Some of the burials were of parents and their children. They were holding hands. That seems to happen when germ warfare kills families.

"But we are here today. It's our turn to live now. And if you're reading this, it's your turn as well. Make the most of it. Enjoy your family."





Since a number

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Water Falls (Original Post) H2O Man Mar 2022 OP
My whole life I have gravitated to friends Mr.Bill Mar 2022 #1
We are of H2O Man Mar 2022 #12
As always, H20 Man, cilla4progress Mar 2022 #2
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #13
Enjoyed reading. Hoyt Mar 2022 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Mar 2022 #14
"All of the earth is the Creator's Garden... Kid Berwyn Mar 2022 #4
Every time I see H2O Man Mar 2022 #15
That is the question on which one's eternity rides. Kid Berwyn Mar 2022 #18
Rubin used to say H2O Man Mar 2022 #20
A redwood stream waterfall in Purisima Creek in the Santa Cruz mountains, 1 1/2 hrs south of NBachers Mar 2022 #5
Beautiful! H2O Man Mar 2022 #16
Wonderful as always and thank you. I sat by a livetohike Mar 2022 #6
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #21
Ty for sharing this wise elder's lessons. SheltieLover Mar 2022 #7
Thanks! H2O Man Mar 2022 #22
Yw! SheltieLover Mar 2022 #23
I had fun H2O Man Mar 2022 #25
Thank you, H2O Man gademocrat7 Mar 2022 #8
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #24
K & R for a wonderful OP! BobTheSubgenius Mar 2022 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #26
We have lived in our home for forty-three years. murielm99 Mar 2022 #10
I love old farm houses! H2O Man Mar 2022 #27
i love stories like this m.m gives me hope for humanity. AllaN01Bear Mar 2022 #11
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #28
o gorsh. blush. embarssement.. humble . i called u the wrong name w o thinking. facepalm. AllaN01Bear Mar 2022 #29
I have been H2O Man Mar 2022 #32
i was called a communist pinko pig by my high school rop instructor, AllaN01Bear Mar 2022 #39
What a treasure Saoirse9 Mar 2022 #17
He was. H2O Man Mar 2022 #30
We need to hear this, again and again and again... Hekate Mar 2022 #19
Luckily, H2O Man Mar 2022 #31
While Y2K is laughed at, it would have cripple the financial industry. Firms spent tens of millions. TheBlackAdder Mar 2022 #33
I wasn't laughing at it, H2O Man Mar 2022 #34
Oh, I know. Nothing in the OP implied that. I was just putting that out there for others. TheBlackAdder Mar 2022 #35
Oh, okay! H2O Man Mar 2022 #36
Thank you H2O! So much wisdom in so few words. So needed now. 7wo7rees Mar 2022 #37
And thank you! H2O Man Mar 2022 #38

Mr.Bill

(24,253 posts)
1. My whole life I have gravitated to friends
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 02:30 PM
Mar 2022

who were older than me. I like to think some of them appreciated my youthful view of things as much as I liked their wisdom and experience.

Only problem is, now that I'm in my late 60s, I'm going to more funerals than I want to.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
12. We are of
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 04:58 PM
Mar 2022

the same generation. Thus, you might like this.

Three nights ago, I dreamed I was in a boxing dressing room, warming up to get back in the ring after many decades. I was exactly as old as I am now, but instead of inhabiting this tired, sore bag of bones I find myself in, I was in perfect shape. Perfect! As I started warming up, I could feel myself becoming the fighter I once was.

Then I woke up, bitterly disappointed to find myself in this sad excuse for a body. But then I thought about it: indeed, I am perfect -- just as you and everyone reading this is -- to fight the intense struggle that our country and much of the world is right now. Indeed, as those of our generation might remember Linda Scott singing, "Never in a million years, will there be another you." Proof we are called for this very moment!

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
13. Thank you!
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 05:02 PM
Mar 2022

I find myself thinking of these things quite a bit. Recently, I've had conversations with three of my wonderful sisters -- including on DU -- about the aging process, and what Elders have to offer.

Kid Berwyn

(14,816 posts)
4. "All of the earth is the Creator's Garden...
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 03:21 PM
Mar 2022

…and He shares it with Us.”

Thank you and your wise and kind friends for reminding us, H2O Man.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
15. Every time I see
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 05:06 PM
Mar 2022

that guy Putin on the television screen, I'm reminded of conversations with Rubin about the higher meaning of the commandment "Thou shall not kill." And of the theft that Putin and his ilk are guilty of when they think they have the right to decide if others live or die.

Kid Berwyn

(14,816 posts)
18. That is the question on which one's eternity rides.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 06:40 PM
Mar 2022

Same for all the great religions: treat others how you would like to be treated. Our time here is a test to develop and measure character.

Our best estimate is the universe is about 13.8 billion years old. It puts our short times here in perspective — about 1/200,000,000th of time since the Big Bang.

The future of something so wondrous has no time for evil. It has better things to do and become.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
20. Rubin used to say
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:16 PM
Mar 2022

that humanity has to recognize that we are the highest level of the earth's consciousness. And that eternity is Now -- always has been, always will be. He loved the science that was beginning to have amazing insights into the universe.

NBachers

(17,087 posts)
5. A redwood stream waterfall in Purisima Creek in the Santa Cruz mountains, 1 1/2 hrs south of
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 03:26 PM
Mar 2022

San Francisco.

There's a log I can sit on, and I hear one waterfall upstream in one ear, and another waterfall downstream in my other ear. I can close my eyes and let the stereo waterfalls cleanse my innards.

The creek runs into the Pacific Ocean. It runs past an abandoned cemetery which has been restored; the only remnant of a thriving town which once existed there. The cemetery is being purposed as a natural burial site, where people can be buried in balance with nature. A beautiful location with visible but low-impact graves. I'm looking into a site there- the creek, the mountains, the ocean; a beautiful setting.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
16. Beautiful!
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 05:12 PM
Mar 2022

Thank you for sharing this! I just had a text from a non-DU member who loved the picture and description.

The dog and I have walked out to the pond twice today. She finds the springs running open on the ground of great interest, and took a drink out of one of them. But she was primarily interested in sniffing the deer tracks in the mud. She gets frustrated that deer on our lawn don't come inside to play with her like other dogs do.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
25. I had fun
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:25 PM
Mar 2022

writing the OP. And I was fortunate to know Paul for decades. I remember back when he was one of the lone voices in the US saying that it is wrong for "progress" to destroy Native cemeteries and Sacred Sites.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
24. Thank you!
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 08:22 PM
Mar 2022

Paul was a fascinating human being. He used to be quiet, almost shy at meetings at the Longhouse. But as I got to know him, he had a great sense of humor. He took his role in representing the Turtle Clan on the Onondaga Coucil of Chiefs, and the Iroquois Grand Council, very seriously.

murielm99

(30,718 posts)
10. We have lived in our home for forty-three years.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 04:26 PM
Mar 2022

It is an old farmhouse, built around 1900. We have refurbished it extensively.

The man who sold it to us was sixty-seven at the time. He had farmed here, and now wanted to live in town. His family had homesteaded here. He was the youngest of five sons and the only one who wanted to stay on the farm.

He still loved his home, but it was too much for him to care for. I used to visit him. He taught me a lot of local history. I learned about what the town was like when he was young. He taught me about the Blackhawk War, that crossed right over our property. The country school on the corner is now owned by the historical society. General Stillman made a stand on that corner during that war.

Mr. D. was glad someone liked to listen to him. He was a staunch Democrat. He was glad to sell his home place to Democrats.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
27. I love old farm houses!
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:39 PM
Mar 2022

The main part of the house was a stage coach station on the "western front" shortly after the Revolutionary War. There was a doctor's office and a post office here for a bit. Then it became a farm in the early 1800s, with a blacksmith's shop across the former turnpike/ current driveway. It was previously owned by a relative from my extended family.

AllaN01Bear

(18,022 posts)
39. i was called a communist pinko pig by my high school rop instructor,
Fri Mar 18, 2022, 09:13 AM
Mar 2022

and still wear that badge w pride.

Saoirse9

(3,676 posts)
17. What a treasure
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 05:23 PM
Mar 2022

He sounds like a wonderful man to have known.

Now, we are the elders, the wise people.

If you were to impart some of your hard earned wisdom to the next generation, what would you say?

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
30. He was.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:44 PM
Mar 2022

You would have loved Paul.

I agree that I am getting old and you are getting wise.

If there's one thing I know, it's that there have been countless wise people, and that I have known and still know some. I can tell people things that I learned from them. And that people should take advantage of a free press. There might be a lot of gutter waste on television and the internet. But if you want to learn what's real, go to your library and do research.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
31. Luckily,
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:46 PM
Mar 2022

my children have noticed that I am repeating myself more as I age, so we'll be hearing it again and again! (grin)

TheBlackAdder

(28,169 posts)
33. While Y2K is laughed at, it would have cripple the financial industry. Firms spent tens of millions.
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:51 PM
Mar 2022

.

Wall Street would have closed as it would have impacted every financial institution and bank.

It was either fix it or go out of business. Medium and larger forms dedicated scores of staff, tens of millions of dollars and 3 years of time correcting the thousand or more programs they use for their various aspects of the firms. Hardware upgrades, OS upgrades, vendor patches and network infrastructures were all impacted. The fact that there were no major issues is an testament to the 6-7 day 12-16 hour workdays staff put in and the scores of weekend dry runs performed internally and with clients.

Yes, they were able to change the clocks on the computers to Y2K and watch the sparks fly in their test environments. Special clock manipulation software was installed and compares of before & after data were performed to verify the data was accurate and to test and validate fixes before moving to actual non-production Quality testing, client testing and production environments.

Since many of these changes involved programs that fed dozens of others, coordination of program and database, file changes had to be made at the same time.

.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
34. I wasn't laughing at it,
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 09:58 PM
Mar 2022

as I knew a heck of a lot less about technology & the internet back then than I do now. And even today, I really don't have a clue, and frequently need to wait until one of my children stops by and helps me. I'm sure that it could have resulted in very serious problems. I think that somewhat similar problems -- potentially very severe -- could take place if Putin's supporters attacked the grids in Europe & North America.

H2O Man

(73,513 posts)
36. Oh, okay!
Thu Mar 17, 2022, 11:20 PM
Mar 2022

I remember at the time, my oldest son trying to explain it to me. I remember that it was, like most technology, way over my head. I asked him if it was going to be a problem, and he said it could be, but that he didn't know.

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