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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy Melanoma nightmare explained.
I was supposed to have surgery a week ago. Nothing has happened. I have the doctors in place and I have the insurance that covers it.
Yesterday I received a letter from Evicore. They are the company that handles the certification of all types of scans for Cigna.
They denied the scan I need because my doctor requested a PET/CT fusion scan. Some doctor I have never met at Evicore said I should get a different type of scan which they would approve. A computed topography CT scan. I guess my doctor does not agree because I am not getting any scan at the moment. These assholes are debating, fighting over a scan while my Melanoma spreads.
If you believe you have good private health insurance you are kidding yourself. I have good insurance and it is failing. This is the first time it has failed, at the worst possible time.
Tomorrow I go see a second doctor and the shit is going to hit the fan. I am beyond pissed off. I see this as a threat to my life and I am going to react that way. The doctor I see tomorrow better have answers or I will fire all of them and start from scratch. I will also look into taking legal action.
LuckyCharms
(17,414 posts)Good idea about getting a lawyer.
Don't worry, you'll beat this.
Please post updates when you are able.
Maraya1969
(22,464 posts)may be just the one to bring justice to these crooked insurance companies!
FakeNoose
(32,599 posts)For them, it's all about the profits.
Good luck my friend. I hope there's still time to straighten this out.
woodsprite
(11,905 posts)Im done all my treatment for recurrent endometrial cancer an am starting my follow-up appts (every 3 months for 2 yrs, every 6 mo yrs 3-5).
CT or PET scans are not approved for endo cancer follow-up appts. I asked the Dr how we were supposed to know if it came back or spread. He said if I saw bleeding or experienced pain, then they can do a ct scan.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)If you get what I mean.
Stay strong.
Karadeniz
(22,475 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts)And denying you anything.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Boomerproud
(7,943 posts)fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)It took a lot to get my father mad, but when he did get mad, look out, incoming.
people
(622 posts)If you don't have a lawyer in mind be sure to search for lawyers who specialize in handling insurance claims. You might try calling this firm to see if they would have any recommendations about who to call in your state: Mannion Lowe & Oksenendler, A Professional Corporation for effective representation from an experienced insurance lawyer. Reach our law office today by calling 800-724-6188, or sending us an email now.
When our daughter was 12 and diagnosed with cancer, after her surgery, her doctor wanted her to have periodic MRIs to make sure that the cancer was not returning. After the first MRI had already happened we received a letter from a supposed pediatric MD who worked for the insurance company telling us the MRI was totally unnecessary and that he would not approve it. I wrote him the most scathing nasty letter I could think of. What an a-hole that man was!
Yes, read your health insurance policy and try to learn what the appeals process is for appealing a denial of your PET/CT fusion scan. If you call a lawyer he or she will most likely want a copy of your policy.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)yellowdogintexas
(22,235 posts)They have the necessary documentation in hand and experience in handling this garbage.
One of the best reasons to enroll in Original Medicare B is that you don't have to put up with this kind of BS.
SouthernLiberal
(407 posts)I theoretically had a great policy from my employer. My husband was on my plan. He was ill, and the doctor ordered a scan (don't remember what kind). The scan showed that his lungs were full of fluid. Then we got a letter saying that the scan was not covered. I asked the dangerous question - Why. The told me that I could look at the policy to see why. But I did not have a copy of the policy. I was told to ask my employer.
I did ask, and was told that there was no policy. I asked another dangerous question - if there is no policy, how can something be not covered under the policy.
We went as far as asking in writing to both the insurance company and my employer for a copy of of whatever document determined that the scan was not covered.
I got a phone call at work, from the VP in charge of HR. He started by accusing me of having the insurance company pay too much money on me, which would cause everyone's rates to go up. I explained that all I wanted was to know why a scan that found that my husband had a serious problem wasn't covered. I wasn't even asking them to cover it at this point. I just wanted to know why.
He asked if he could get the scan covered if I would stop bothering people. I told him that I would not need to know why it wasn't covered if it was covered, but that at this point I really did want to know how I could determine what would and would not be covered before I spent the money. He hung up.
A few days later, I got a notice from the insurance company that the scan was going to be covered.
By this time, my husband had completed his lung treatment and was feeling better. He talked to friend who was an attorney. Apparently, under Federal law at the time, once I had asked for the policy, the only legal option was to send me a copy. No phone calls. No change to the coverage determination. Just send a copy of the policy.
After a few months went by, apparently somebody realized this, and I got a photo copy of a page of the policy with a section highlighted. That section did not apply in any way to my husband's scan. The heading of the page described it as part of the policy, and it came from the insurance company.
So, from the beginning, I was lied to. In fact, telling me lies was so important to both companies, that
they were willing to break the law.
Tetrachloride
(7,820 posts)such that 3. send video to your local TV station
good luck
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)scanning for, although Medicare seldom denies a service up front. They get you, or the doc, later after it's done.
In any event, hope you get answers tomorrow. Good luck.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)If I had medicare it probably would have been approved. Unfortunately, I am two years short of being able to sign up for medicare.
Katcat
(229 posts)Medicaid sure does. My brother died from cancer January 2021. His doctor had tried for months to get a PET scan for him but the doctors at medicaid decided the bottom line was more important than his life. Apparently theres a limit on how many PET scans medicaid allows.
ga_girl
(183 posts)A CT scan is pretty basic imaging technology. PET/CT is a more advanced technology, with higher ability to resolve.
https://www.neurologica.com/blog/pet-scan-vs-ct-scan
From that link:
PET scans show metabolic changes occurring at the cellular level in an organ or tissue. This is important because disease often begins at the cellular level. CT scans (and MRIs) cant reveal problems at the cellular level.
PET scans can detect very early changes in a patients cells. CT scans (and MRIs) can only detect changes later, as a disease alters the structure of your organs or tissues.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)This is why I am so pissed off at Evicore. They are stopping my doctor from doing his job.
questionseverything
(9,645 posts)They deny tests to reduce costs
No test, no proof treatment is needed
Be happy you have private insurance, medicaid would let you die
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)I think the nurse actually wrote the appeal. Amazingly, the appeal was granted in a few days. Unitedhealth care. If your curious.
I believe it isn't the scan that's the problem but the stuff they inject you with costs a fortune.
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)we support you. If you become emotional during this visit...anger, panic, but hopefully it will be relief...just use what you have.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)No one in America should go through something like this. The stress alone can kill you.
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)the doctor doing my breast biopsy, smeared the sample on a slide, looked at it and turned and looked me right in the eye. She said this is cancer. I needed to know right then and there. I have thanked her more than once. I would have denied reality and you need to know the truth and deal with it.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Ridiculous that healthcare ins is for-profit!
malaise
(268,726 posts)Hope you get treatment soon
Response to fightforfreedom (Original post)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
yardwork
(61,539 posts)Our healthcare system is a mess.
If you continue getting the runaround consider moving forward with the scan and paying out of pocket, then sue the insurance company to pay. I don't know if that would work but as you say, this delay is life threatening.
Ms. Toad
(34,008 posts)from finding appropriate care.
For background, I have two cancers (one rare) - and a daughter with a very complex rare disease for which there is no known treatment, and both treatment and diagnostic options are often deemed experimental. We often have insurance battles (I've only lost one, because in that case the doctor ordered a test the insurance company considered experimental, ignored the flag their system threw telling her it was experimental (so we could have chosen not to have the test) AND - the doctor refused to provided appropriate documentation to support her assertion it was not experimental)
First - ask your doctor what they hope to gain from the PET/CT fusion scan which they cannot obtain solely from a CT scan. I am not claiming to be an expert - but because of our conditions, I'm pretty adept at making quick assessments that are at least sufficient to prompt specific questions for your doctors. Here, quick research suggests if your melanoma was caught early the PET/CT fusion scan may be less useful than for other cancers because it sometimes misses smaller metastasis (early stage) and sometimes even larger cutaneous metastasis (isolated case reports of the PET/CT fusion scan missing larger tumors in the skin which, within the body, the scan is very good at picking up).
Second - if there are specific reasons to push for this test (rather than just a CT scan), is it necessary to have the test completed before surgery. I.e. will it change the course of surgery, or only change post-surgery treatment (radiation or chemo). Again - my quick research suggests this test is most useful for staging (especially later disease staging), which generally impacts treatment post surgery. The one surgical difference appears to be identifying lymph node involvement, so they can be removed during the initial surgery. It is pretty standard when removing tumors to also remove sentinel lymph nodes (the ones to which the cancer is likely to spread first) to test for spread to the lymph nodes. Does your doctor expect to remove lymph nodes during surgery? Would having the scan results change this?
(If you don't have answers from your first doctor for these questsion - ask the second doctor, then go back to the first and ask that doctor and compare the answers.)
If I were in your shoes, and the scan results would only impact post-surgical treatment, I would push the doctor for surgery before resolving the insurance battle over the scan. In other words, don't let an insurance battle delay surgery, unless the added information from the fusion scan has a significant likelihood of changing the course of surgery. Get that thing out of your body, because the longer it is there, the higher the chance that it will metastasize. Decisions about post-surgical treatment are less urgent, and there is often a delay in beginning treatment while you heal from surgery. You can continue the insurance battle during that period to guide the post-surgical treatment.
Finally - make sure you understand the rejection. Are they rejecting it because it is still considered experimental - or because they believe equivalent (less expensive/less dangerous) tests will provide sufficient information.
If it is the former (experimental), that is an insurance company decision that is hard to overcome. I have had one experimental treatment approved based on clever arguments made by my doctor about the progression of acceptance of the treatment for other diseases and the alternative cost to the insurance company for the accepted treatment ($900 days v. 2+ weeks of hospitalization).
If it is the latter, you have a better chance because it is your doctor, with specific information about your condition, who can articulate why, in your case, a variation from the insurance standard is warranted.
Good luck!
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)My first doctor and his office have not been explaining themselves clearly. The doctor I am seeing tomorrow is the one removing the lymph nodes to be tested. My first doctor is the plastic surgeon who is removing the melanoma from my cheek. Both surgeries are done at the same time. If the surgery can be done without the pet scan, with a lesser scan, Lets go, is what I will say. You would think they would have already explained all of this to me.
Tomorrow I am demanding action, no more talk, no more games.
Ms. Toad
(34,008 posts)I hope your second doctor is better at listening to your questions and explaining things. I've fired doctors who were more interested in playing God than meeting my needs for information so I could make an informed decision.
It's interesting that two separate surgeons are involved in your surgery. My BIL just had a particularly aggressive form of melanoma removed from his forehead (incidentaly by the same plastic surgeon who removed my most recent aggressive cancer). That plastic surgeon removed several lymph nodes in the neck region when he removed my BIL's melanoma.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,008 posts)I've had to develop tools for surviving the medical system, starting in the mid-80s. Might as well share.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Again, thank you.
AmBlue
(3,104 posts)Once you get the state involved, they will cut through the red tape for you!!
I had the same thing happen with a surgery I needed. NOTHING happened until I called the Floruda Office of Chief Financial Officer (our regulator). Once the state reviewed my case and challenged their BS, the insurance company approved the needed surgery and backed down completely.
Ziggysmom
(3,399 posts)Good luck with your fight. It's so exhausting to have to fight for our basic human rights which are stifled by greedy corporations. Get your state senators involved, too. Also local news and investigative journalist sites like Pro Publica. I've been my disabled husband's caretaker for 12 years now; I've had to move mountains in order for him to get the care he deserves. The care we ALL DESERVE!
SWBTATTReg
(22,077 posts)expertly handling your situation, I'm surprised at the incompetence surrounding your course of treatment Evicore, etc.
Melanoma is something that is very time sensitive, and one must act quickly to keep it from spreading. I'm glad (but of course sorry that you got to put up w/ crap like this).
My best to you. Pls. continue to update us on DU w/ your progress.
PCIntern
(25,492 posts)That a certified return receipt requested letter, explaining your situation and your potential recourse addressed to the president of the company works wonders. These folks dont want these things on their desks and often will just send word to take care of this get it approved so that they will not have to deal with any more of this from you as an individual. I have done this in one capacity or another for 50 years starting with the president of RCA which got me a brand new color TV after the local dealer refused to take back his defective model. I have sent these letters to companies and in all but two cases have received positive results. It cannot hurt to try this , it cost a few bucks but you know youve done your best in terms of going straight to the top. I have found that it is best not to be angry, but to take a position that you are informing the CEO of the company of malfeasance or a problem/series of problems going on in the lower ranks. It is not that anyone is fooled by this, but on most occasions they are willing to just do what you say to close the case. I wish you the best.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,664 posts)it's unnatural and does not make sense, but it makes them money or they would not do it !!!
F- all the insurance companies !!
LT Barclay
(2,594 posts)house of cards.
Also, denial by a non-medical person should be considered practicing medicine without a license.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)cancer practitioners in general rely very heavily on extensive research and constantly updated data from patients across the nation with your medical situation. Your surgeon might be considering your case alone in deciding a PET is desirable even if not usually of special benefit. But maybe not. Either way, it's his job to make the case for the high-radiation test, and his office owes you a progress report.
Tomorrow hopefully you'll get information you need and be prepared to move the treatment you need forward. That's all that matters at this point.
And for heaven's sake, stick to cancer patient forums for this kind of thing.
Stay away from political forums that draw way too many people who can imagine America has terrible healthcare and providers that exist to empty their victims' pockets. No one needs that nonsense, least of all people in your situation.
Best wishes. Looking forward to hearing surgery's scheduled soon.
momta
(4,078 posts)ancianita
(35,952 posts)Somebody's breaking the hippocratic oath; maybe the company by policy; maybe your doctor. You might not really be 'the client' under some good private insurance. A third doctor should affirm that to delay treatment endangers your life. Somebody should immediately treat you, and that shouldn't have to be through a court decision.
Regardless, you shouldn't have to have this business bureaucratic horror visited upon you, and I'm right there with you, wishing you all the best of care you deserve. Give them hell.
Response to fightforfreedom (Original post)
pinkstarburst This message was self-deleted by its author.
PatrickforB
(14,561 posts)the welfare of ANY patient.
Just got through a nightmare like that with my wife.
This cannot stand. It has to change. Our monetized healthcare system is killing us, both figurative and literally.
How is it that our politicians, those who could actually change things for the better, do not see that
THE PROFIT MOTIVE IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH OUR INTERESTS AS PATIENTS.
That's it. That reason should cut through all the bullshit and corruption, and we should have had Medicare for all of us way back when, because FDR was calling for it. As did Truman. And LBJ, and Nixon. Obama campaigned on healthcare in '08. One of the reasons he won.
And I'm sorry - the ACA is not nearly the program that a Medicare for all would be. And I do not want to hear how 'we didn't have the votes.' If Congress had the political will, we would have it tomorrow.
PlanetBev
(4,104 posts)Greedy insurance company bastards. How do those maggots and vultures live with themselves?
ShazzieB
(16,291 posts)When I first saw the word, I read it as Evilcore. From the sound of your situztion, I wasn't so far off!
I don't have any advice (and there's plenty of that here already anyway), but I wish you all the strength, resilience, and perspicacity in the world in fighting this. I also wish for you successful treatment that fully eliminates this cancer, and many, many more healthy years of life ahead. Sorry I can't do anything more.
Take care, and be good to yourself. You deserve it.
XanaDUer2
(10,557 posts)shrike3
(3,490 posts)Wonder if a strong-worded message from a bystander like me would help.
Probably not, but it's a thought.
spanone
(135,795 posts)You are your best advocate...hang tough.
area51
(11,897 posts)We need to get rid of the for-profit insurance companies, which are serial killers.
dflprincess
(28,072 posts)the insurance companies hate nothing more than having these kinds of stories made public.
And, never hurts to call you state insurance commissioner (or which ever commissioner cover insurance where you live) and maybe the state Attorney General.
Whatever you do, don't give up - insurers count on most people giving up after a few phone calls.
Tickle
(2,491 posts)I just want you to know that I am sorry you are going through this and I hope you get your surgery soon ❤️
Racygrandma
(109 posts)The first thing the doctor asked is do I still have Blue Cross. I said no I am on Medicare now. So he knew a lot of insurance companies will not pay for it.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)I am two years short of getting medicare. I am leaving right now to go see a second surgeon. Wish me luck because I am going to raise hell. Today will decide my future.
Racygrandma
(109 posts)I got lucky a few times concerning that issue. Long story but yes had crappy insurance, husband changed jobs better insurance then was diagnosed with cancer. Yes, I got lucky, scary it is.
shrike3
(3,490 posts)As a cancer survivor myself, I know more than a few folks living with/surviving cancer, and almost all of them have had PET scans at one time or another.