I'm always leery of the drumbeat of war.

[JohnnyRingo]

The media has been selling wars since William Randolph Hearst and there's almost always a too convenient event to light the fuse. I don't want another war.

This is a good opportunity to clarify something that really needs to be discussed.

Many people who are uncertain about assisting Ukraine believe that this war is a purely Russo-Ukrainian affair, and believe we "shouldn't get involved".
The truth is: we were always involved because what happened to NATO happened to us all.
We were involved in 2008 and 2014, when Putin used wars of aggression to suppress the democratic will of neighboring countries, annex territory, and prevent them from joining the EU - which he sees as an enemy - as well as NATO.
We were involved when Putin funded pro-Brexit parties, and extremists on the left and right, in every European election and in the 2016 election in the US, believing that internal discord would cause an internal collapse, like what happened to his beloved USSR.
We were involved when gangsters and Nazbols masquerading as "separatists", armed and paid by the GRU and FSB, shot down a civilian airplane full of passengers with a BUK air defense system.
We were involved when Russian agents used Novichok on British soil, killing an innocent British civilian.
We were involved when Lukashenka hijacked a Ryanair flight to kidnap two Europeans.
We were involved when Putin tried to get Trump to abandon American security commitments to Europe.
We were involved when he bought off politician after politician, to foster the global dependency on Russian energy exports, precisely in anticipation of a moment like this.
We were involved every time Putin called the Baltic republics "NATO-occupied Russian territory" and claimed that they must be returned, regardless of the will of the people who live there.
We were involved when Putin threatened to aim nuclear missiles at Copenhagen, because they had the audacity to join NATO's Shield program.
We were involved when Russian agents blew up a Czech ammunition depot, killing two people.
Only last week, Russian government officials threatened to strike Georgia with missiles to "destroy American biolabs" in the country. Are we not involved?
Only last week, Russian state publication Pravda claimed that Poland is "an illegitimate country" that is "an accomplice of the Bandera regime" and "must be denazified". Are we still not involved?
It's time for NATO to take their heads out of the sand: we were always involved. This war is an attack on all of us. To Putin, we are the enemy. Don't let Kremlin apologists make you forget that.

Mother Russia has been seen for decades as harmless because of her failed economy. They couldn't afford to bother the rest of us. However, Putin needs resourceful land and all the items listed above are valid. He's been doing global guerilla tactics all along. Kneecapping us makes him stronger and it might be time to give him a timeout.

Dmitri Medvedev would be next in charge and I think he'd be an improvement. He was president until somehow Putin shoved him aside and retook the position. Now he's Prime Minister. He was a big fan of American and Euro Rock culture, especially Deep Purple. Rolling Stone did a feature on him when he first won. Above all, he's not Putin. If he could be the leader of a coup he could speak to the Russian people and explain that nuclear superpowers are so 20th century. These days it's about economic superpowers. Japan, China, the US, and South America don't have to do land grabs to build an economy. Russia can be a go between trade partner for China and Europe, and SE Asia and the US. All roads can lead through Russia if they tried.
This guy:
[img][/img]

I really think this invasion and annexation has been planned for years. The only missing part of the plan was the re-election of a Putin friendly US president who would have fractured NATO and greased the route for him by now.
It appears Putin followed through regardless and is sailing into war with the wind in his face. NATO is united and the Trumpers are not.

[Wingus Dingus]

1. Not sure about the Medvedev guy, he was kind of demoted.

But I agree that Russia has been waging war on the West/US for some time. That's why I get so itchy/irritated when I see us dither about sending fighter jets from Poland to help Ukraine. Russia has taken over one of our political parties and has done tremendous internal damage here, and yet we are still deferential to their preferences while they continue their genocide of Ukraine? Fuck that shit.

[wnylib]

2. Very good points. Ukraine is the latest flareup,

but the war has been going on for a long time.

And we have always been part of it in large and small ways.

[Demsrule86]

3. Excellent post Johnny.

[Chainfire]

4. I am going to pick on one single item from the list, as it has come up often in the past few weeks

FSB, shot down a civilian airplane full of passengers with a BUK air defense system. People making mileage out of this incident seem to want to forget that we did exactly the same kind of thing in 1988.... This is not an excuse, nor is it a justification for what Russia did, both cases are unforgivable, but when we did it, it was an "accident."

Iran Air Flight 655

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Jim__]

7. One major difference, when we shot down an Iranian airliner, we admitted we did it, ...

... expressed regret, and paid compensation.

Russia does not admit to shooting down Malaysian flight MH17, and repeatedly changed its story as new evidence came to light, and pro-russian rebels blocked access to the crash site - based on wikipedia.

That's not to exonerate the US in shooting down a civilian airliner, but just to note that we handled it quite differently.

[58Sunliner]

5. Agree completely. I think we should have enacted sanctions a year ago.

Their warfare has been hacking and espionage, not to mention trying to destabilize the US by wedging factions, and creating fake news through bots.

[SheltieLover]

6. Agreed!

Excellent post!

[dalton99a]

8. Medvedev is no longer prime minister. Putin threw him under the bus and dismissed his cabinet

so he resigned

[JohnnyRingo]

9. I guess I a little behind on that news.

Now he serves as Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council. Still, he seems to be the best candidate to replace Putin in a coup, both for Russia and the world at large:

Wikki:
"Medvedev was elected president in the 2008 election. He was regarded as more liberal than his predecessor, Vladimir Putin, who was also appointed prime minister during Medvedev's presidency. Medvedev's top agenda as president was a wide-ranging modernization program, aiming at modernizing Russia's economy and society, and lessening the country's reliance on oil and gas. During Medvedev's tenure, the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty was signed by Russia and the United States, Russia emerged victorious in the Russo-Georgian War, and recovered from the Great Recession".

[samplegirl]

10. This is an excellent post

Last edited Sun Mar 20, 2022, 10:12 PM - Edit history (2)

We all know trump was giving Putin all the information he needed. We also know the senators who went there were conspiring to help. Putin proceeded.
Trump has got plenty of blood on his hands along with all those who voted against aid.
We were always involved and some of dirtiest republicans still backing this war.
It’s plain to see these people are willing to kill at any cost to keep their wealth!

Greatest Page!