I believe inexperience outside of the bubble makes rural folks cautious, less tolerant, and clannish

[Simeon Salus]

Last edited Sun Mar 20, 2022, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Reposted from this thread

You go to school in Williamsburg, Iowa (pop. 3,346) and you'll see the same hundred people every day. Except for I-80 restaurant and gas station traffic every transaction at the bank, school, church, store, park is with someone you know or have known, mostly white folks. You drive everywhere. Every business is part of national chain. The mayor is a white man. Your tolerance for strangers and the unusual is low, because you're not used to many changes. Folks stay closeted. Little "c" conservatism is a reasonable POV.

Drive a few miles east on I-80 to Iowa City (pop. 74,828) and there are several main streets. Go to college at Iowa University. Almost half the population are students who come in and out every four years or so, mostly white and mostly from Iowa, but some from neighboring states and few internationals. Walk down campus corner and you'll experience hundreds of people you've never met before--every day. Mayor is a non-white man. Your tolerance of strangers is higher because the town relies on those strangers for church members, school teachers, bank tellers, store clerks, park users. It's still Iowa so still conservative, but way more [little "l"] liberal than Williamsburg.

Move a few hundred miles to Chicago (pop. 2,746,388) to get a job in your chosen field. Every one of hundreds of neighborhoods has their own main street. Lots of ethnic communities (where familiar folks and like-minded strangers create culture together). Lots of internationals. You take transit, but still drive. Daily tolerance of strangers is high because you see vastly more strangers than familiar faces. See thousands of strangers daily. Non-white openly lesbian mayor. It's normal to see a new store clerk, a new church member, new kids in the park. It's Chicago so conservative thought is deep in some communities but largely something you bring in on TV. Real life is liberal.

Get promoted and move a thousand miles east on I-80 to live in Brooklyn (pop. 2,736,074) and work in Manhattan (pop. 1,694,251). Every street is its own community. Almost everybody is a stranger, ethnic, from other states, or an international. Thousands of minor interactions with strangers daily. You sell your truck. Mayor is a non-white ex-cop man. The city is a world market center (where pragmatism usually beats idealism). Small retail businesses still predominate. Conservatism exists, but mostly radiates out of one building, 1211 Seventh Avenue. Everywhere else real life prohibits daily practice of bigotry, hate and intolerance. It's bad for business. The whole city votes liberal.

That's been my life experience. Not better, not worse, but different upbringings.

[Chainfire]

2. I have lived in both settings.

I grew up in a town of 500 people, I had 30 kids in my high school senior class. I have also lived in Chicago and Miami. I know both worlds. There is no doubt in my mind, that on the whole, country people are more polite than urban folks.

What I tell people, and what I believe to be the truth, is that a problem in an urban environment is that, the faces you see today, in the streets you will never see or never recognize again. Since they are all strangers, it is OK to be rude to them, to be abrupt or pushy or dismissive and there is no obligation to help them out of a jam.

On the other hand, in the country, you see the same faces every day, you all know each other, if not by name, then by sight. You will come into contact with them on your next outing, you will recognize each other. The same guy you jump off in the grocery store parking lot this week may be there when you leave your lights on three months from now. Therefore, it makes sense to treat each other better. Country people are more polite, not because they are better people, more friendly or more noble, but because is is a better survival strategy.

I could be wrong but that is my impression.

[Simeon Salus]

3. I actually grew up much farther south than my analogy indicates

I think your observations are way valid. I totally relate to your experiences.

My own experience is that the farther south you go, the more politeness is used as a weapon, a cover for interpersonal violence.

When I taught at a rural school, bullies would just call their crimes "hazing."

[Girard442]

5. People in rural ares and small towns do tend to be more polite...

...unless you're:
A person of color,
LGBTQ,
Jewish,
Muslim,
An immigrant,
An atheist,
An outspoken woman,
An intellectual,
Or basically anyone not just like them.

[redwitch]

17. That was true in the pre trump era.

The trump love has made many people in rural NY quite rude. The pandemic hasn’t helped either.

[doc03]

4. Guns, gays and God. Gays includes anyone

of the (other) (sexual orientation, color, race, religion)

[delisen]

6. The most prejudiced people I ever met lived in Brooklyn. Donald Trump lived in Queens. nt

[Simeon Salus]

7. And how did that work out for him?

No argument. Brooklyn is filled with assholes.

Queens on the other hand is perfect.

[gibraltar72]

8. Live in the shadow of Midvale College in

South central Mi.. That is what you will see a pernicious cancer that corrupts the town, law enforcement and now the nation. Spreading their tentacles everywhere because they are rolling in corporate money.

[Simeon Salus]

9. Small markets are easy to dominate with small amounts of money

This is the Republican strategy. Buy up and corrupt all the mostly rural states.

[gibraltar72]

11. See the rot spread from this one small cesspool.

Now wrecking public education in Tenn.. Have an eastern outpost I believe in Delaware. At one point Ginni Thomas worked for them.

[Simeon Salus]

14. Says David Byrne: "I wouldn't live there if you paid me"

[Bettie]

10. I live in a town fairly near Williamsburg

We moved here over 20 years ago.

What we found was that people are "hi how are you" friendly, but they don't socialize with newcomers, don't want to hear opinions that aren't from their preacher or people they have known for most of their lives.

Small, rural towns are closed communities. All of my kids went to school here, but we are all still "new people".

[Simeon Salus]

21. That was how I felt when I was teaching

The pleasantry was often merely transactional.

[albacore]

12. Education is part of the answer...

"Residents of rural communities attend college at rates remarkably lower than those in both urban and suburban areas. Just 19 percent of rural Americans hold a bachelor's degree or higher, compared with an average of 33 percent nationwide."
https://focus.luminafoundation.org/in-rural-america-too-few-roads-lead-to-college-success/#:~:text=Residents%20of%20rural%20communities%20attend,average%20of%2033%20percent%20nationwide.

"Rural students have lower literacy rates than urban and suburban students, which is likely a reflection of the high levels of poverty often found in rural areas. Students in rural schools have access to fewer advanced classes than urban students."
https://www.publicschoolsfirstnc.org/resources/fact-sheets/the-facts-on-rural-schools/

[Simeon Salus]

16. Agreed. It's about the relative value of education in those areas.

My grandfather could get a PhD but it wouldn't make the peanuts grow much better.

My NYC daughter gets a certificate and a license and she makes three times what he ever grossed in a year.

There's a critical mass thing going on. Iowa City is a fabulous writing town.

[Kaleva]

13. Over half a million people in Cook County, Il voted for TFG

[Simeon Salus]

15. 74 million people voted for the Giant Douche nationwide

1211 Ave of the Americas is very effective at the evil work they do.

[Kaleva]

18. TFG would be a non factor if he depended on the rural vote

75 % of the vote TFG got in MI came from counties classified as urban or mostly urban

More people in Wayne County (metro Detroit) voted for TFG then in all of Upper Michigan and much of northern Lower Michigan put together.

Over 1 million people in LA County CA voted for TFG

Close to 700k people in NYC voted for TFG.

[Simeon Salus]

19. Emperor Hyperbole I would have been a non-issue without a few thousand rural voters in

Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Hey, I'm not saying small town folks are stupid or big city folks are smart. Far from it.

I say because of small town culture, many I know are clannish and easily misled.

You just can't survive in a small town manner living in a big city. You are forced to adapt.

I'm aware my post is an over-simplification. We don't necessarily disagree.

[Kaleva]

20. There are more clannish and misled people in the urban areas

While they may be a smaller percentage of the urban population, there sheer numbers are greater then those who live in rural areas.

IMHO, I think people concentrate a bit too much on rural folks and ignore the large number of urbanite Magahats.

And we don't necessarily disagree.

[Sympthsical]

22. Reality is not nearly this idealized

There are plenty of clannish, bigoted people in major cities. I live in the Bay Area and love the diversity of the population. However, diversity does not magically dissipate the nastier side of human impulses. Spend enough time around the Bay Area, and you'll discover that each ethnicity hates every other ethnicity to varying degrees. Some get along better than others. Some are at each others' throats. Sometimes, it's communities within communities. Korean friends who hate the Chinese, and Japanese friends with parents who hate all other Asians. If you don't think people in cities can get awfully clannish, hang around the Filipino diaspora sometime. I'm not sure my partner and his family even know any other white people. I am oftentimes literally the only white person at family parties with 30+ people.

I mean, it's morbidly amusing to observe.

Tolerance is fashioned because pluralistic government has become the order of the day in cities. It's nearly impossible in most major American cities for government to work unless different communities cooperated. In rural, enclosed spaces, that cooperation is unnecessary. But it doesn't change the social dynamics or make the human impulses of rural people magically disappear. They just take other forms.

"Everywhere else real life prohibits daily practice of bigotry, hate and intolerance."

I mean, that is either extremely naive or incredibly rose-colored.

[Simeon Salus]

23. I'll confess to writing a post which is both naive and rose-colored

But there's something about it which rings partly true, because it's been my actual experience.

Jackson Heights is like this. Washington Heights too.

I find lots to agree with in your comment.

[msongs]

24. small towns - vicious backstabbing gossips run by social and economic bullies.

though they smile in your face and say bless your heart. that's my experience