On Morning Joe they are discussing a NY Times editorial, "America has a free speech problem"

[JohnSJ]

where they are playing their both sides do it argument:

“In large part, it’s because the political left and the right are caught in a destructive loop of condemnation and recrimination around cancel culture”

I don’t subscribe to The NY Times anymore, but just taking the quote from Morning Joe, a statement like this makes very little sense when there are elements in society trying to legitimize racism, bigotry, sexism, and blatant lies.

It isn’t cancel culture to disparage those who propagate lies, racism, etc.

Free speech is a two way sword, and Bill Maher and others who like to pander the word “cancel culture” every chance they get, seem to lose sight of the fact that those who are hurling the word cancel culture toward others, are themselves perpetuating cancel culture

It seems to me that those who hurl the word cancel culture toward others are from the right

[dalton99a]

1. The New York Times doesn't disappoint.

Link to tweet

[JohnSJ]

2. +++ So well said by Ted Liu.

Those who hurl the word cancel culture toward others, are themselves perpetuating cancel culture

It is not a surprise that those who call others “guilty” of cancel culture, are usually from the right

[msfiddlestix]

5. This 10,000 %

Recommending this post. Could create it's own OP for the word!

[c-rational]

35. Bingo, Thank you Ted Lieu.

[Lovie777]

3. NYT carries water for the GQP ......

As well as Washington Post and others.

That's why it is refreshing the read truthful positive takes on what's going on now from smaller news outlets.

[gab13by13]

10. AS well as MSNBC

why do you think Keith Olbermann won't get rehired?

Fox News doesn't worry about bothsiderism.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Sufragettes were shunned & shamed, but they were right. MAGAts shunned/shamed bc they are wrong.nt

[JohnSJ]

7. The term "cancel culture" is an excuse, usually from the right, to marginalize anyone they disagree.

At least that is my view, and your example is perfect

[Rebl2]

26. I agree

[bullwinkle428]

6. If the NYT believes that "Gazpacho Police" should not be "shunned or shamed"

in this country, then perhaps it's time for me to start looking for another country.

[Lonestarblue]

8. I read that article a couple of days ago. It was garbage.

I wrote a comment that it is media like the NYT that keeps pushing the Republican talking points about cancel culture and wokeness and keeps these ridiculous ideas alive. It is not cancelling someone to expect, and insist, that they follow the norms of decent behavior. That expectation has not changed significantly over the decades, but Republican whiners who were loosed by Trump to call people nasty names and to be openly racist now believe they are being treated unfairly for their abominable behavior. Forty years ago, if I had gone to work and called colleagues nasty, racist names, I would have been told to clean up my act or be fired.

Trump was all about ending political correctness. What he actually ended among his cult was civility.

[SomewhereInTheMiddle]

29. The First Amendment is not about shaming or shunning ...

...it is about preventing the government making laws that take life, liberty, or property from people for saying things the government does not want to hear.

As long as the negative consequences of voicing foul, despicable, or dishonest words are social and, to a lesser extent economic, they are well within the scope of free speech.

You have a right to say whatever you want without fear of being arrested (within certain limitations). That is the right we have enshrined as a nation. Not the right to say stupid shit with no consequences.

You have the right to say something I vehemently disagree with. And I have a right to voice that disagreement. That is freedom of speech.

[wryter2000]

36. If it's their right to say that crap

It’s my right to call it out. Wryter2000 has no power to stifle anyone’s speech.

[maxrandb]

9. Yes, it's "both" sides

On the left, if your say racist, fascist shit, society is going to let you know that civil society doesn't tolerate that hate.

On the right, if your don't think like they do, they want to jail and kill you.

So, sure NYT, "both sides are just the same"

Fuck that noise.

Fees speech is not freedom from consequences.

STOP NORMALIZING HATE

[Joinfortmill]

11. Some so called 'culture' should be cancelled.

[PurgedVoter]

12. Cancel culture is conservative culture.

We have all grown up watching cancel culture cost lives and careers. When conservatives practice cancel culture, they don't call it cancel culture. If they can't find a good name that sound like a reason to practice cancel culture, they make it up.

Don't say gay? Firing teacher for discussing black history? Remember Dixie Chicks? How about book burning. Lynching? That would be extreme cancel culture. Racism? Tell me how that isn't cancel culture. I can go on forever. Conservative Christianity does not even know what their religion is. All they have is cancel culture. Take that away and they have nothing.

The elephant in the room that has been practicing cancel culture on these shores since they met Native Americans and burned witches.

What they are objecting to, is our getting fed up with bullies and haters. Yes there are examples where people are abused by cancel culture. But the conservatives have no business complaining till they stop being cancel culture. The day conservatives start listening to and then simply saying they disagree when they hear a communist, person of another religion, or gasp, a person with no religion talk will be a start.

Keep in mind when an individual decides to defend others, Conservatives shout Antifa. When a Conservative runs over someone in a car, that they disagreed with when the person being run over was protesting cancel culture, they legalize running people over.

BLM=Anti-cancel-culture. Conservative=Anti-BLM. But no, we can't let someone take a knee in front of the flag. How humble a protest and yet it makes them all want to cancel it.

There is a reason we don't want to listen to conservatives. We are tired of the cancel culture.

[NewHendoLib]

13. That was one thoroughly disgusting Op Ed.

Bothsiderism at it's "best". Laid bare that selling papers to all is more important than truth.

[lagomorph777]

41. All the spew that's shit to print.

[gab13by13]

14. What does this say about people,

from the US and the UK? In 2017 Fox stopped broadcasting in the UK because it only was getting a couple thousand viewers per day.

It seems there isn't such a market for hate speech in the UK as there is in America.

[Blue_Adept]

15. lolololol

"It seems there isn't such a market for hate speech in the UK as there is in America."

Oh, there's plenty. Just look at any number of the newspapers that spew all their anti-trans hate. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

There's plenty of a market for hate and hate speech in the UK.

[OldBaldy1701E]

16. Hate speechclicksprofits

If the hate speech won't generate profits, then one do something else. The issue is that Fox Views do not have anything else to run with. So, if their 24/7 hate-a-thon won't generate profits, then they 'cancel' it. (See what I did there?)

[uponit7771]

27. +1,

[Farmer-Rick]

17. This NYT opinion column is not living in the same America that I live in.

Maybe they live in Russia....

"The right to speak their minds and voice their opinions in public without fear of being shamed or shunned."

We have never had that right. If you voice a stupid or ignorant opinion you will have to face the consequences of your actions. No where in the US Constitution does it allow for no consequences when someone says stupid things.

You have a right to your ignorant opinions but Not the right to express them to others without them holding you accountable for what you say. Say stupid things get jumped on by smarter people. Maybe you should just not say stupid things.

It's like the NYT is just daring us to shame and shun them for this stupid opinion column. It's dumb and ignorant and I'm glad I've cancelled my subscription.

If they have a right to publish stupid opinions, I have the right to tell them it's stupid.

[uponit7771]

28. +1,

[AZLD4Candidate]

37. I'll translate the quote: "Conservatives should not be called out on their bigotry because

being a bigot is as American as motherhood and apple pie. Why do you that do it hate America?"

[PatSeg]

18. And most of the people using the word "woke"

as an adjective now are people on the right. The right has done to it what they did to the word "liberal".

[Johnny2X2X]

34. Putin is using "woke" and "cancel culture" to describe Ukraine

I'm hoping that hearing Putin use it like that takes some of the steam out of it.

This whole "cancel culture" obsession is over a myth. Who's getting canceled really? You hear an occasionally silly story, but it's not representative of things that are happening in everyday life all that frequently. And even the "canceled" rarely are suffering long term consequences for their words.

What the Right wants is freedom from consequences for their actions.

[PatSeg]

39. Yes, it is another right-wing gimmick

that really doesn't mean much of anything. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are canceling you. Yet another example of they can dish it out, but they can't take it. Yes, the super snowflakes do want freedom from consequences, but they don't want others to have that same freedom.

Some people are addicted to anger and outrage, always loving to play the victim.

[lagomorph777]

43. If I cancel a subscription to a rag that spews bullshit, it is cancel culture.

And it's a GOOD thing, dammit.

[PatSeg]

44. And very good judgment!

[doc03]

19. I can tolerate just about any opinion, everyone has

a right to have one. But when it comes to bat shit crazy
like Qanon I cancel that. I know a couple people that talk about Biden being a pedifile and JFK and Elvis coming back and making The Loser President again. You cannot have a conversation with them without your head exploding, they are like on another planet.
I you are in a group of people it is almost always a Republican that starts something political . If you disagree they get pissed and if there are more than one they they get loud and interrupt like they do on Fox.

[oldsoftie]

24. They're the same people who think trump & Putin are taking down biolabs in UKR

And I'm sure there's a child trafficking angle in there too.

[pazzyanne]

20. "...those who hurl the word cancel culture toward others are from the right"

Yeppers!

[genxlib]

21. Two major things have changed

This is really about loss of privilege. It has never been a right to have opinions without consequences. But it feels like they are losing that "right" because they got away with it for generations.

People within the protected enclave of white/male/cis etc. have been able to be cruel to POC/women/LGBTQ because they were in a position of power where even inappropriate behavior was allowed to persist. Meanwhile, culture evolved away from them and left them on an island.

The second thing is the wide spread use of video. Much of what causes reaction now is the video proof of the bad behavior. Will Smith said it best about racism "IT ISN’T GETTING WORSE, IT’S GETTING FILMED". Spot on about racism but it also applies to all kinds of bad behavior. It is much harder to look the other way when the proof is right their to see.

[Voltaire2]

22. That fucking awful editorial equated

legislation criminalizing or setting bounties on teachers discussing ‘divisive concepts’ with people expressing their opinions on Twitter.

[Politicub]

23. I'm so sick of people complaining about cancel culture.

Especially because people who moan about being canceled often do so via mass media.

So many people just parrot what other people say about cancel culture, too. I have a friend who retired who watches news most of the day. He's become a pill because he essentially repeats whatever broadcast news is reporting that day. The day after Bill Maher airs is especially annoying because he repeats Maher's boring opinions about solar panels and cancel culture.

Oh, and the View. I am so sick of hearing what the View featured that day. It's so predictable that a host will say something -- the last time I think this happened was with Whoopi -- and gets suspended for a couple of weeks.

But ugh -- Bill Maher. I can't stand him.

[milestogo]

25. I watch Morning Joe with the sound off.

I turn up the sound when anyone else is talking, but I keep those two muted.

[Johonny]

30. How many people have been successfully cancelled by this cancel culture?

[seta1950]

31. I don't

Read the N.Y. Times or watch bill and morning joe, first thing they all do is spew gop talking points

[Bristlecone]

32. Asimov was never more right:

[JohnSJ]

33. +++

[lagomorph777]

38. The White Wing believes only they should have freedom of speech (and religion).

Their definition of freedom is the right to force others to listen to their bullshit without any backtalk.

[Justice matters.]

40. Freedom of speech is for the government(s) to respect.

The U.S. has a "ignorance of the Constitution" problem.

Freedom to shout out "FIRE" in a crowded theater where there's no such fire has consequences, though.

It all depends on the "how"- the "where" and the "when" free speech is allowed.

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. The NYT editorial is idiotic bullshit

not being able to be an asshole without being shamed for it is not a "free speech" problem. The government is not curbing speech.