General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'Unthinkable': Scientists Shocked as Polar Temperatures Soar 50 to 90 Degrees Above Normal
Temperatures in parts of Antarctica were 50°F-90°F above normal in recent days, while earlier this week the mercury soared to over 50°F higher than averageclose to the freezing markin areas of the Arctic.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/03/20/unthinkable-scientists-shocked-polar-temperatures-soar-50-90-degrees-above-normal
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)interest on DU about the fate of our only home the Earth, as compared to many other shinier things.
cbabe
(3,539 posts)Cant face existential threat posed by climate change so distract with trucks blowing horns and all.
For me at least, its not that I dont care - its just such a huge problem that I feel there is next to nothing I can do. I personally can purchase energy efficient items and consume less (which I do), but Im just one person.
mahina
(17,646 posts)Commenting and liking isnt a good measure of interest when people feel defeated.
Up until this happened we thought there was still a path forward to saving life ( at least most of it) on earth. Now what?
wnylib
(21,432 posts)survive the hotter globe. At least some people will.
But it will get ugly as people fight for land and water, and diseases spread through the expanded habitats of disease carriers like mosquitos. The well off and powerful will grab for themselves and the rest will either fight among themselves or unite for their own common interests.
Coastal cities will be lost underwater and their people will be displaced inland. Winds and currents will change so that in some places, storms will be stronger, with torrential rains while in other areas, trees and other vegetation will give way to dry lands and deserts. There will be changes in habitable land, causing migrations within countries and across national boundaries. With decreased habitable land there will also be a decrease in agriculture as we know it in some places, causing food shortages.
There will be people who survive, but it might be that humans will no longer be the dominant life form on earth.
shrike3
(3,572 posts)Though I am talking more about the population in general. My BIL, a libertarian, yet a very nice person, dismisses the fact most climate scientists agree that climate change is happening. "Science is not a vote," he said. "It's called a consensus," I said. He also seems to think we're due for an ice age. He seems to think that would be a better option.
GB_RN
(2,347 posts)We wouldn't be due for another ice age for another 20,000 years or so, IIRC. So, your BIL is wrong on that count. And with climate change warming things up, he's even more wrong. Some projections have modeled that fresh water glacier melt could shut down the North Atlantic circulation (Gulf Stream), which is what keeps Europe warm and northern hemisphere temperatures "moderate". If that were to be the case, the eventual outcome could be an ice age, but it would still take millennia for enough ice to accumulate to be considered one. None of us would be around to see it either way. It's not like it would be an overnight event like the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".
shrike3
(3,572 posts)Unfortunately, there are too many like him in the world.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)We cannot get meaningful climate change legislation as long as we allow campaign donations, Super PACs, Dark Money, and the revolving Door.
Correspondingly, we also would have to do something about media propaganda whose major advertisers keep the media from widely discussing climate change. We need to require truth in the news to get rid of the propaganda that is our current news.
These are the two root causes of most of our problems. Solve these two root causes and then we can begin to seriously address not only climate change, but immigration, criminal justice reform, the environment, and a host of other important issues facing our country and our world. Right now we are factionalized fighting for the issues each of us cares about most but nothing can get done in D.C. about them. We need to focus on these root causes to the exclusion of everything else first!
Hekate
(90,645 posts)
of at all times. I just cant talk about them all at once every day.
My grandsons, age 3 y.o. to 17 y.o., are absolutely going to be living with: a drowning coastline in perpetual drought, a country where girls they are growing up with now will not be able to control their own fertility if the current SCOTUS has anything to say about it, a nation whose democracy is in doubt, and a madman trying hard to start WW III in Europe.
Those are just the top 4. It doesnt mean I (or others) dont care about the rest.
Just a tip: when I do an OP on something I think is particularly interesting or urgent, I give a couple of self-kicks for those in different time zones. Then I let it go. There are a huge number of posts in GD, coming in all the time.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)Donald Trumps latest mendacity.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)And what is the GOP actively doing? Denying climate change and chomping at the bit to get back in power to do more harm.
Between their support of Putin and this, the human race has no bigger enemy than the GOP.
Peacetrain
(22,875 posts)being facetious of course.. but the world is going to change in ways we cannot even comprehend..
cbabe
(3,539 posts)Traildogbob
(8,716 posts)Texas and Florida gone. 👏 Except for their GQP refugees fleeing shark waters. Refugees need to show picture ID and democracy supporting forehead stamp or swim back to where Dallas was.
Jerry Jones and the Cowboys not allowed. The Arctics will have summer get away Time Shares.
GB_RN
(2,347 posts)If we lose all the polar ice, Iowa and all the plains states would revert to being the floor of the inland sea like they were during the Cretaceous. Might want to invest in some rafts! 😉
Where I live in NC will revert to beach front property in that particular scenario.
I really hope we will make this a global priority, like yesterday. There is no way this is 'normal weather patterns'.
Auggie
(31,163 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)Coventina
(27,101 posts)I'm just bummed that we're taking so many of our fellow creatures with us.
electric_blue68
(14,886 posts)Coventina
(27,101 posts)No reason we shouldn't suffer the consequences.
Yes, I'm a misanthrope. I think the weight of the evidence makes it pretty clear that we deserve it.
electric_blue68
(14,886 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 21, 2022, 03:03 PM - Edit history (1)
protesting for renewable energies in DC.
Ronnie Ray-gun took down Carter's WH solar panels.
But not enough people paid attention, etc 😔
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
GB_RN
(2,347 posts)Protesting FOR renewables?
Not to nitpick, but it's a tad confusing the way you've got it worded.
electric_blue68
(14,886 posts)Got a bunch of things on my mind, missed that
GB_RN
(2,347 posts)🖖
If there's a lesson, it's that Republicans see everything in 1 - 2 year horizons, whereas Democrats see long term, generations, centuries into the future.
So anyone dumb enough to vote for a republican really doesn't want a better future for themselves or for their children.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)These outcomes have been coming and we know it.
I don't get anyone's surprise at it.
Here's another non-surprise:
it's going to get much much worse.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)ffr
(22,669 posts)And every day humans release thousands of years worth of it into the atmosphere.
Worse still, the weather typically trends 30 years behind current GHG releases. Welcome to the new hell that awaits future generations.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)This is rather like arsonists complaing about forest fires.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)Are you suggesting the organization called Common Dreams is responsible for climate change???
NNadir
(33,512 posts)...um...to steal a line from the antivax movement...doing "their own research."
Their preferred "solution" which is experimentally been observed to have failed miserably is to hype the destruction of vast tracts of wilderness for so called "renewable energy," wind and solar, neither of which is sustainable because of the mass and land requirements, not to mention reliance on easily depleted elements in the periodic table.
They arbitrarily hate what not only will work, but what does work, reliably, nuclear energy.
Now nuclear energy is not risk free, nor does it need to be so to be so to be vastly superior to everything else. It only needs to be vastly superior to everything else, which it is.
For me, as a scientist who has spent decades looking into the matter, wind and solar are the ivermectin of climate change, and nuclear energy is the equivalent of a vaccine, the benefits far outweigh the risk.
I find "Common Dreams" to be uncommonly ignorant when it comes to climate change. Their tired rote dogma is appalling in this context, and since 7 million people die each year from air pollution while they whine about Fukushima, rather deadly.
Ok?
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)stop economic and population growth. If this planet cant support renewable energy production it certainly cant support more claims on its carrying capacity of humans.
To allow more consumption at the current level of industrialized populations while constructing machinery with a measurable chance of catastrophic environmental damage just to support this consumption seems like the worst kind of crime.
GDP is arguably directly tied to degradation of our only home, the earth. Until we as humans embrace a turning away from empire and toward earth community, away from extraction and toward nurture, away from accumulation and toward simplicity, no magic pill of energy production will save us - nuclear or otherwise.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)...on which they state that a vague subset of people shouldn't exist so they can exist in comfort.
To be perfectly honest, I favor more consumption for the 1.7 billion people on this planet who lack access to improved sanitation, as well as those who lack electricity, or are short on food, etc.
I believe that human justice and human development goals require more energy, not less of it, and I know very well, having studied it at a deep level, that this kind of energy can be provided with reasonably low external costs.
Nuclear energy, because of its extremely high energy to mass ratio is essentially infinitely sustainable. Nothing else is.
I tend to be very suspicious of claims by people living in secure countries that the world would be a better place if they all just got good gas mileage, or all moved to the city. It's the kind of "environmentalism" that generally ends up with people who wish to demonstrate their "commitment" by driving to the mall at Christmas - if one is wealthy enough in an electric car - to purchase a Sierra Club Calendar and announcing thereafter that one is "environmentally aware."
Been there, done that, but I grew up.
As for statements about over population being the root of all evil, every once in a while, I'll hear from some fellow old fart from my detestable generation of consumers, how noble they were for not having children, while smugly condemning me for having two.
I have little patience for superciliousness of this type of fool. It's arrogant and frankly, more than a little solipsistic.
If it makes anyone happy, I personally believe that the world population may collapse by catastrophe, but I believe it wasn't necessary that this happen. An alternative would have been to reduce it by attrition: It is well known that those countries that have birth rates below the replacement rate are almost always places where people feel secure in their homes, have food to eat, access to health care, etc.
The problems of our planet are not going to be addressed by platitudes, or any of the bourgeois drivel, electric cars, wind turbines and solar cells on McMansions, the kind of rhetoric leaching out of the assholes who write at "Common Dreams" or, frankly, in the kind of rhetoric- in defiance of Jevon's well know paradox - bourgeois people employ that we can all use a little less and everything will be fine. If one has effectively nothing, one cannot use less.
I see the people at "Common Dreams," as indicated in my previous post, to be the moral and intellectual equivalent of anti-vaxxers.
As for the limits of growth, there was recently an editorial item on this topic in Nature: Are there limits to economic growth? Its time to call time on a 50-year argument (Nature 603, 361 (2022)). It is very clear that there are material limits, and ironically, it is the people who call for so called "renewable energy" who are the most enthusiastic advocates for profligate use of materials: They insist that having two or three redundant systems spread over vast tracks of land is better than having one system that is reliable and can produce energy for millions of people on a few acres of land.
The editorial notes (albeit in a slightly different way than I would) that when faced with a choice of "going green" - whatever that's supposed to mean - and "growing" the GDP, the GDP wins. But it's quite possible that the choice might be between "going green" and living in poverty. When the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine - dunkelflaute - the Germans burn coal. They've been doing all winter, and their carbon intensity is disgusting.
I'm not inclined to address the serious of issue of material limits with hand waving however.
I'm an old fashioned type of liberal, the type which has nearly vanished: I believe that the poor matter, that poverty needs to be addressed, not embraced.
If you think your proposal is practical, I disagree, but good luck with that anyway, with convincing everyone to embrace poverty as a virtue. I think there are some religious sects that go there, but I'm not a participant in religion.
Have a nice day tomorrow.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Hekate
(90,645 posts)This is the reason Al Gore & The Scientists have been making such a deal about things like a 2 or 3 degree rise in temperature. If places that are supposed to be frozen all year round rise from 29 degrees to 33 degrees, the ice starts to melt. Its melting at an increasingly rapid pace.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Because one would need most every nation and the vast majority of the world's population to work together on it.
Adapting to climate change is doable as that pretty much depends on each individual.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,110 posts)The opportunity to connect the real cost of fossil fuel has never been more newsworthy. Yet is strangely off the table.
"Build Back Better Goes Global" is truly vital.
Response to Swede (Original post)
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hatrack
(59,583 posts)And to adapt a memorable phrase from the cable from Tokyo to the Japanese embassy in DC in November 1941, "After that, things are going to happen automatically".
orleans
(34,049 posts)and i'm finding this insane weather rather terrifying