Daylight saving change faces trouble in House

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Legislation to make daylight saving time permanent passed the Senate last week, but the House is not ready to be a rubber stamp, spelling potential trouble ahead for its passage in the lower chamber.

Leaders on both sides of the aisle have made clear they are not in a rush to act on the legislation, with some citing the focus on the crisis unfolding in Ukraine, as well as the need for further review from members before taking up the proposal.

And though the idea has enjoyed bipartisan support across Congress, its path in the lower chamber is uncertain, as a few members have begun to call for more research into the proposed measure before signing on to the push.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) told The Hill on Friday that, while she has supported doing away with the semiannual time change in the past, she's gotten mixed reactions from her constituents over the idea.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/daylight-savings-change-faces-trouble-in-house/ar-AAVjDbW

[SoCalDavidS]

1. Important Legislation Getting Done

All the other less meaningful stuff can wait.

I'll be able to sleep so much better knowing they're making this time change stuff a priority.

[NightWatcher]

2. Leave it alone. I'd rather "adjust" for a day or two in lieu of kids in the dark at the bus stop

We tried going to one universal, unchanging time in the mid 70's and it was a flop. The 3 year pilot program didn't last a year before they went back.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. We didn't have the research that says that losing an hour of sleep...

causes a spike in car crashes and stress-related deaths from heart attack and stroke, either.

[Blues Heron]

4. If a one hour change is going to give you a heart attack it was going to happen anyway

[cloudbase]

13. No foolin'.

As a retired mariner, this was a fact of life on every voyage. Most intercontinental voyages would change the clocks one hour every other night. The SL-7 container ships were so fast that we'd change 1.5 hours four days in a row.

Besides, we don't see airline pilots and cabin crews dropping dead with any regularity, and for them it's multiple changes in a day.

[Mariana]

15. People have heart attacks shoveling snow, too

but only if they have a sick heart to begin with.

My question for those who insist they have such a difficult time with the one hour change is do they never, ever travel out of their own time zones?

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Good Question!

One year (2013, IIRC) I was in 16 time zones in the same year! Sure, 3 were in the US, and I obviously live in one of those. But, that averages a different time zone, outside the United States, every 4 weeks.
Yeah, some of that was hard, but I kept traveling internationally for 5 more years. And, I said SOME of it was hard. Other zone changes were effectively nothing.

[lagomorph777]

27. Yeah fuck 'em

Who cares if we kill a bunch of people for an imaginary "savings" of daylight? No biggie, right?

[Act_of_Reparation]

46. Yeah, fuck science!

DONT CONFUSE ME WITH FACTS IVE GOT MY MIND MADE UP.

[Blues Heron]

47. lol!

More coffee sir?

[Mariana]

9. Lots of things are different today than they were in 1974.

Anyway, where I live, kids already go to school in the dark in the wintertime.

[maxsolomon]

11. Where do you live?

I live at 47 degrees N. With Standard Time, the sun comes up before 8 in Dec & Jan, it is Civil Twilight from 7:20 at worst.

Add an hour on to those times for Permanent DST and that's in the dark.

[dsc]

23. east west matters too

Maine and Detroit MI are in the same time zone for example. Detroit will stay dark much longer in the morning than Maine.

[Meadowoak]

18. It would be easier to just have school start an hour later.

[maxsolomon]

66. Um... that's what happens on Standard Time

with respect to daylight levels.

[jcgoldie]

68. yep

+1

[hunter]

49. Wouldn't it be easier to change school and work schedules than clocks?

Farmers and many construction workers start work an hour or two before the sun rises. Doesn't matter what the clock says. I've done that kind of work. My great grandparents got up with the cows.

Many jobs are 24/7 and are done in shifts. I've done that kind of work too, mostly in medicine.

Here in the 21st century I suspect "9 to 5" jobs are much less common than they used to be.

Why couldn't schools have "spring" and "fall" schedules adjusted so kids never had to wait for the bus in the dark? Why change the clocks?

[Pinback]

5. Sleep experts say Senate has it wrong: Standard time, not daylight saving, should be permanent

Sleep experts say Senate has it wrong: Standard time, not daylight saving, should be permanent
- Washington Post, 3/16/2022

Sleep experts widely agree with the Senate that the country should abandon its twice-yearly seasonal time changes. But they disagree on one key point: which time system should be permanent. Unlike the Senate, many sleep experts believe the country should adopt year-round standard time.

After the Senate unanimously passed legislation with little discussion Tuesday to make daylight saving time permanent, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine issued a statement cautioning that the move overlooks potential health risks associated with that time system. (The legislation, which would take effect next year, must get through the House and be signed by President Biden to become law.)

“We do applaud stopping the switching during the course of the year and settling on a permanent time,” said Jocelyn Cheng, a member of the AASM’s public safety committee. But, she added, “standard time, for so many scientific and circadian rationales and public health safety reasons, should really be what the permanent time is set to.”

The AASM made this stance clear in 2020 when it released a position statement recommending that the country institute year-round standard time. Its reasoning, in part, is that standard time is more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm, and that disrupting that rhythm, as happens with daylight saving time, has been associated with increased risks of obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and depression.

- more at link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/03/16/daylight-saving-bill-health-effects/

Some parts of the country wouldn't see sunrise until after 9 a.m. for part of the year if this passes. This would be dangerous for school kids and anyone else who has to be on their way early in the day. In Washington, D.C., sunrise would come after 8 a.m. from around Thanksgiving until Valentine’s Day -- and at almost 8:30 for a few weeks during December and January.

The Washington Post's "Post Reports" podcast had some interesting information about this proposal last Friday:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/podcasts/post-reports/daylight-saving-time--forever/
It's worth a listen.

[Freddie]

8. No

I love the long summer evenings. But if you make DST all year, kids will be waiting for the school bus in the pitch black.
Just leave things the way they are. It’s an hour.

[Meadowoak]

19. School can start an hour later.

[BlueTsunami2018]

6. I'm not sure why they're wasting time on this.

It seems to me that if we were going to do this, standard time would have been the better choice to keep but really, it’s completely unnecessary on its face.

I don’t know. I think of a hundred things more important for Congress to be focused on.

[canetoad]

34. I reckon is a boost

For bars, restaurants and other businesses that have suffered under Covid. Extra hour of daylight on top of summer coming up.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Good. I'd rather just dump DST and stay on standard time...

anybody living north of the 40th parallel should agree.

[underpants]

10. They are going to change it BEFORE we get an hour back?!?!

[Wounded Bear]

14. IDK what "they" are going to do...

but if it were me, I'd let this year play out like it's been and 'fall back' this fall, and then skip the 'spring forward' next year.

[lagomorph777]

26. Bingo.

Just be done with that silly DST experiment. It's caused too many heart attacks already.

https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/heart-health/why-daylight-saving-time-could-increase-your-heart-attack-risk

The number of heart attacks rises the Monday after daylight saving time, a Michigan Medicine study found. Interrupted sleep may be the culprit.

[Zeitghost]

67. It doesn't cause heart attacks

It creates a small cluster that would have normally been spread out over a longer time period. Anyone who has a heart attack due to a one hour adjustment in their sleep schedule was going to have one soon anyway. This change won't lead to fewer on on an annual basis and the slight cluster after the time change doesn't cause any significant burden on the healthcare system. It's a non-issue.

[Silent3]

16. That's my preference!

Besides intellectual objections to DST being the new standard time (which I don't expect all those fans of a (fake) extra hour of daylight to get or care about), permanent DST was tried once before in the 70s. Lots of parents were suddenly very unhappy about their kids going to school in the dark in the winter.

It'll happen again, and people will (stupidly) be surprised and unhappy about it -- as if they couldn't have seen it coming.

[Meadowoak]

20. I was in 3rd grade back in 73. My school district had us start an hour later

It worked out great. Problem solved easy peasy.

[Mariana]

21. I don't know why so many people think this is an impossible thing to do. nt.

[Silent3]

25. The whole idea (flawed though it might be) of DST is that it's supposedly easier...

...to change all of our clocks in unison than it is to modify all of our schedules according to the amount of daylight available.

Whatever ill effects clock switching might cause (there's a small but statistically significant increase in things like heart attacks and traffic accidents), yearly schedule switching without clock changes will cause exactly the same sleep pattern disturbances.

Given a choice between keeping the twice-yearly clock change, or having scattered, not-so-unified schedule shifting so people get extra daylight that way, I'd rather stick with the current system of clock changing.

[Celerity]

38. No.

anybody living north of the 40th parallel should agree.

I live farther north than 99% of people on this board (Stockholm, between the 59th and 60th parallel north) and having sunset start around 1 or 2 PM in early winter sucks, plus we know are having sunrise (as we are still on standard time for a week more) beginning to start around 5 am.



We live in Söder...........

Södermalm is a city district area in central Stockholm, Sweden. Södermalm has a population of around 110,000, making it the most populated borough of Stockholm. The urban development project of Hammarby Sjöstad is located in the Södermalm borough.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. Your early winter midday is about 11:50am; permanent DST would make it 12:50pm

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/sweden/stockholm

Currently, your earliest sunset is 14:46 - 2 hours 46 minutes from noon. If you went on permanent DST, your latest sunrise would be 09:45 - 2 hours 15 minutes from noon.

So permanent DST would get you a more lopsided winter day than now. And in the morning, when it's colder too.

[Celerity]

55. Losing an hour of sunlight in the middle of the day is far worse than

gaining one in the morning, when it will be dark still even on standard. Unless you live here, you really cannot understand. You can talk about it in theory, but you simply lack the experiential input. The majority of Swedes agree with my position, not the one pushed by the 'no more DST ever' crowd here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. The point is that 9:45 is closer to the middle of the day than 14:46 is

If you moved to permanent DST, it would be worse by the measure of "losing an hour of sunlight in the middle of the day". Permanent DST would also make it dark in the morning for more months.

My experience in the north of Scotland (about 57.5 degrees north) tells me winter mornings are dark and cold, and I wouldn't want them darker still.

[Celerity]

57. there are far more people out and about in the early afternoon than the morning

I do not care if I am going into work or to school when it is dark (which it will be no matter if it is ST or DST for the time of year I am talking about) but if/when I get off early (which happens all the time) or if I am out in the afternoon if I am not working or at school, then that extra hour gained before pitch black is much preferred. Plus having it start to get light before 5am in March (and before 4am soon after if there was no DST) is just irritating, especially as it is still very cold out, sunrise or no sunrise.

I do not expect anyone who has not experienced it for themselves to understand, but the people who do live it vastly favour my stance. I have almost no friends or co-workers here in Sweden who want perm ST.

[kcr]

62. This is the first real chance we've had to stick to one time

If permanent DST doesn't happen, then that's it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. The House could easily modify the bill to make it permanent standard time

This bill got through without debate because the staff of senators ignored it, so no senator stood up to say "we should discuss this before voting". It'd be ridiculous to say "this is now our only option for change".

[maxsolomon]

12. Jayapal's gotten mixed reactions from this constituent.

I like it the way it is, but I think I might be the only one.

Hopefully Jayapal has actually looked at what the impact would be on her district:

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle

[electric_blue68]

17. Dang, I love my 8:00PM - 8:30PM Sunsets on DLS! ...

It's a beautiful 💖 transcendent feeling for me .

Either all DLS, or keep the switch.

[Quixote1818]

31. I am 100% with you. Screw it getting dark early. nt

[KentuckyWoman]

22. GMT minus

I know I'm a broken record. Sorry

Personally I'd rather have whichever time gives me more evening light but it isn't like I'm sending kids to school in the dark every morning.

[lagomorph777]

24. I should think so. The whole idea is insane.

If you're going to standardize time, get it right. Go with STANDARD TIME. Sheesh. These people were apparently born after 1974. Been there done that.

[Mariana]

44. The bill passed unanimously in the Senate.

The average age of the Senators is 63 years. Only four of the current members of the Senate were born after 1974.

[lagomorph777]

45. Sinema and Rubio pulled a procedural trick on the doddering Senators.

They whispered a bunch of that mumbo jumbo "motion to dismiss the discharge of the negative of the inverted petition to blah blah blah" and nobody paid any attention. Figured they were naming a Post Office or something.

[rurallib]

28. good - they have real work to do

[Emile]

29. They have time for this, but no time to legalize weed?

[maxsolomon]

41. It would never make it through the Senate

and it would hand the GQP a club to beat Dems with in swing districts.

The power of the Bluenose is still too strong in the US.

Much easier to let the States lead the charge and wait for Conservatives to WTFU, which they might, someday, maybe...

[Emile]

51. Bwhaha

Unfreakin believable.

[maxsolomon]

54. OK, you tell me why they don't do anything about it.

Sounds like you know.

[Emile]

61. Because they are ignorant and willfully stupid!

Support for Legal Marijuana Holds at Record High of 68%! Its even higher with just democrats polled.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/356939/support-legal-marijuana-holds-record-high.aspx

[maxsolomon]

65. I don't buy that.

Dem Leadership knows those poll numbers.

[Emile]

69. What polls do you believe? Just the ones you agree with? Show me

the polls you believe in!

[Celerity]

58. even if it did, Biden may well veto it, he is not pro-legalisation at all

[Quixote1818]

30. If we are going to go to Standard Time all year then I would rather just stick with the time change.

It getting dark at 5pm is ridiculous and I love the long summer days.

[Celerity]

59. Try starting to get dark at 1 or 2 PM at times here in Stockholm when we're on ST. Yet, ever since I

joined DU, I have people (who live in nothing remotely like that) trying to completely negate (one person was just nasty viscous last year) my stance, a stance for us here, in Sweden, not even for the US. It is like they feel the need to globalise their particular personal stance, a stance that comes from where they reside, and is not applicable to all other areas of the planet.

[Celerity]

60. Try starting to get dark at 1 or 2 PM at times here in Stockholm when we're on ST. Yet, ever since I

joined DU, I have people (who live in nothing remotely like that) trying to completely negate (one person was just nasty viscous last year) my stance, a stance for us here, in Sweden, not even for the US. It is like they feel the need to globalise their particular personal stance, a stance that comes from where they reside, and is not applicable to all other areas of the planet.

[kcr]

63. Agreed

Permanent standard time would suck.

[Coventina]

32. DEATH TO DST!!

[area51]

35. +1 n/t

[Celerity]

37. NO. You don't have to live with it starting to get dark at 1 or 2 pm in early winter, & the sunrise

now (as we in the EU start DST 2 weeks after the US) starting around 5 am in March.

[Coventina]

39. I think that decisions should be made at the local level.

Here in AZ, we tried DST, hated it, and we remain on Standard time all year.

[Celerity]

40. I do not think that for the US, other than Alaska and the farthest east regions of New England,

it matters that much, certainly not in the stark reality that it does for us Nordic nations within a certain latitudinal band, and certainly not for the vast majority of the US 'NO DST EVER AGAIN' crowd. There almost seems to be a religious fervour amongst some who take that side.

I always preface my reasons and location up front. If I was living in Los Angeles again, my caring about the situation would be much less pronounced.

[highplainsdem]

36. Good.

[ZonkerHarris]

42. Changing the clocks is how I show off my technological superiority.

[liberaltrucker]

43. Good!

nt

[boston bean]

48. Wtf.

[hunter]

50. Frankly I think we should all run on Universal Time.

None of this time zone crap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Time

Each and every community free to determine their own local time. If a village decides to set their clocks by local noon on some particular day, so be it.

That's actually today's underlying reality. The computers follow one clock tuned to earth's rotation, the clocks on the wall represent various social conventions offset from that.

My personal biological clock begins about an hour before sunrise. From there we have about twelve hours of fixed time, one hour equal to one hour of universal time. Beyond that the hours get fuzzy. Starting again the next day.

[Hekate]

52. Gads. Can't they just mandate Standard Time?