Can anyone point to another instance where folks here were so...enthusiastic about military action?

[brooklynite]

No-fly zones

"Red Lines"

Military action in Belarus

Providing missles and planes

Truly amazing.

[SoonerPride]

1. After 9/11?

Was DU even around then?

I didn't join until 2006.

[brooklynite]

5. Nope. Plenty of opposition to going into Afghanistan.

"Supporting the military-industrial complex" and things of that sort.

[SoonerPride]

12. Thank you. I honestly didn't know.

It makes sense that many would be against it.

I was torn on going to Afghanistan.

I was wholeheartedly against the war in Iraq because it had nothing to do with 9/11.

But in Afghanistan I wanted us to send special force (not a full blown occupation campaign) to eliminate Bin Laden as I felt that was just.

And of course it took until Pres Obama did exactly that some decade later.

[orwell]

16. I marched against Afghanistan...

I marched against Iraq (both wars.)

It doesn't matter to me who is involved, war has always represented the utter failure of imagination.

I am fully convinced that this is a Germany into Poland moment.

We all know what that led to...

[dpibel]

18. Plenty of support also

It's not as if this has ever been an entirely homogeneous joint, after all.

Hell, there were even arguments about the legitimacy of "taking out" Saddam Hussein.

Surely you're not representing yourself as a lonely voice crying in the wilderness for reason on Ukraine. I'm seeing plenty of disputation over the appropriate course of action.

[choie]

26. There might have been opposition

but the U.S. was on a revenge binge and most people were for war against Afghanistan and "terror"

[W_HAMILTON]

30. This is either revisionist history or a poor reading of the current situation.

A Washington Post/ABC News poll right after 9/11 showed 93% of Americans supported taking military action against whoever was responsible for the attack (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data091401.htm).

There is nowhere near 93% of Americans today that are willing to take military action in Ukraine.

Your entire premise is flawed.

[blm]

2. Justice-based discernment.

[getagrip_already]

3. Yes, Bosnia when the Serbs were committing genocide. N/t

[Kali]

4. maybe a little bit on Afganistan soon after 9-11, but

yeah. it does seem kind of righteous and justifiable, but it also feels a little racist and hypocritical. I can live with both aspects and exist in a complicated world.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

6. Umm, well 9-11 comes to mind...

[FalloutShelter]

7. I find it amazing too.

When I encounter this among friends, I ask who’s son will you send? Yours? Your grandchildren?”

Expansion of the war only means more casualties… not less.

[SoonerPride]

10. I often ask the same question. Or why not just go volunteer now? They'll take you.

Which is usually met with silence.

Am I appalled by what Russia is doing?

Obviously.

But do I want to embroil the US and our men and women in that fight?

Moreover, would I volunteer to go die in Ukraine?

ummmm, no .

[FalloutShelter]

13. I share your thinking

And your compassion and sometimes despair.
I trust our leadership. I trust Joe.

[ForgedCrank]

42. An hour ago

I was called an apologist and supporter of genocide for taking this position.
I understand the emotional weight of things like this, and people, being emotional, tend to allow their feelings to get in the way. I do it too, all the time.
But we are talking about war here. Not unlike many others here, I've seen what war produces, and I don't want my kids or any American anywhere near that place. Its not our fight.
We can send money, blankets, food, whatever, but not troops or offensive weapons.
Vladimir Putin will get his no matter how this conflict ends. He has already lost the propaganda war and the world wants him gone.

[Calculating]

33. Sounds like appeasement to me

Oh, if we just let Hitler take Poland it's not so bad. If we try to stop him more will die

[intrepidity]

8. A defensive war is the only just war nt

[Blues Heron]

9. clear cut defensive war against actual hostile evil invader vs US bullshit trumped up wars?

Thats the difference to me.

[Marthe48]

19. well said

I have had mixed feelings about recent events.

If you compare U.S. vs Iraq and vlad vs. Ukraine, seems like bush and vlad both invaded on false pretexts. I didn't support bush invading Iraq, and I hope Ukraine wins the day. I think the last war I could support was WWII.

Thank you for helping me settle things with myself.

[Blues Heron]

21. Thanks

[bluewater]

28. Well said.

[uponit7771]

40. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[pecosbob]

11. It's amazing we can can even walk and chew gum with all the contradictions we embrace

[Beastly Boy]

14. I suspect it's NATO

Ironically or not, history shows that NATO, concieved as a military alliance, has been the most successful defender of Europe's, if not the world's, liberal democratic institutions and economic prosperity.

This, incidentally, is what scares the crap out of Putin.

[orwell]

15. I don't support No Fly Zones...

...Red Lines are essentially meaningless. There is no reason for "red lines." If the Russians attack NATO, it's game on. Calling it a red line is meaningless. It is a treaty. You honor your commitments.

I don't support military action in Belarus, for the same reason I don't support No Fly Zones.

I do support providing whatever assistance we can to the Ukrainians, including air defense, MPAD's, NLAW's, ammunition, intelligence, communications, humanitarian aid, training, refugee assistance, and political and information warfare assistance.

As far as planes that is much trickier. Where do they take off from? How do you get them in country? Who is providing ground support? Where are they based? If you could add air assets that are completely flown, supported, and maintained by Ukrainians on Ukrainian soil then it should be looked at.

What would be truly amazing would be to not understand the real threat to Europe that this madman and his bloodthirsty brainwashed supporters represent. Some wars are just. The only major war that fit this definition was WWII. In my mind, this has the potential of becoming WWIII.

[thucythucy]

17. Can you point to another instance

of a totalitarian regime launching a full-scale war with absolutely brutal tactics against a peaceful and democratic neighbor for no reason other than a single man's megalomania?

I opposed our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq for a variety of reasons, including that they were both bound to turn into quagmires, and were both unjustified by the facts as we knew them.

I supported President Clinton's actions in stopping the genocide in Kosovo, leading to the end of the murderous regime in Serbia, and I now support President Biden's policy of aiding Ukraine.

One doesn't have to be a war monger to be in favor of supporting the people of Ukraine as they struggle to save their country and their lives.

[bluewater]

29. Excellent points.

[TomSlick]

38. Exactly.

[TheProle]

20. Even if we stick to just Russian invasions

in the 21st century, we have Russia's invasion of Georgia in 08 and the other (2014) invasion of Ukraine resulting in the Crimean annexation.

I don't recall this sort of hawkishness on DU then (admittedly, I was still in lurking mode and may have missed it).

This invasion is in violation of international law, it's abhorrent and it needs to be stopped, but it's also the Next Big Thing ™ and subject to America's increasingly binary thinking, subject to performative rhetoric, flags and war porn and lots of know-it-all-ism.

[thucythucy]

37. I can't speak for others but

I was appalled by all these actions, most especially the leveling of Chechnya.

A part of the difference in response here might be a question of practicalities. There was little we could do to assist in Georgia, and the occupation of Crimea happened too fast for anyone on the outside to do much about it.

As for "binary thinking" I'm wondering what sort of multi-polar thinking you would find preferable relative to this particular atrocity.

Personally, I find calling the obscenity we see happening now "the Next Big Thing" rather glib, indeed rather callous. To my mind it trivializes the suffering we see, and the emotions stirred up in those of us watching day by day.

[Caliman73]

22. The missiles and planes are different from the Red Line and No Fly Zone

Missiles and planes can be provided as self defense weaponry to a nation which has been invaded and which has been seeking closer ties to Europe and NATO. We provide Israel with significant military aide, as well as Taiwan. Russia can certainly interpret that is it will and will sabre rattle about provocation, however, most other countries would support sending materials for defense.

The "Red Line" is obviously a challenge to Russia with a definitive criteria for initiating direct action, which basically would signal a hot war directly between the US and Russia. That is just at flash point to total war.

Similarly a No Fly Zone is direct intervention as well. If we enforce a no fly zone, those are American pilots in American aircraft going up against Russian pilots in Russian aircraft. Either of us shoot each other down, and we are at war.

I understand what you mean by people being "enthusiastic". I think there is a discussion to be had however.

[sarisataka]

23. It is rather jarring

The rapid change that has happened. Mere weeks ago it was nearly 100% advocating sanctions with absolutely no military involvement. There was very little support to even send weapons to Ukraine.

Now nuclear war is an acceptable risk; there have even been a couple posts suggesting we initiate one.

[bottomofthehill]

24. Not since the battle of bowling green.

[WarGamer]

25. Never seen it before... especially not from our side of the aisle.

[dpibel]

43. I guess you weren't around

during the runup to Afghanistan and Iraq.

There were plenty of people on this very discussion board who were wildly militant in both those situations.

Of course, you've only been on DU for a year, so you're just speaking about the general opinion nationwide. Not at all the DU opinion.

Which was the question in the OP.

[WarGamer]

44. Got it...

Thanks!

[malaise]

27. Frightening is a better word

That is all

[48656c6c6f20]

31. We all just need to lay down our arms

And let Pootin get his way. Because standing up to a psychopathic bully is the wrong thing to do. We should just self annex whatever he wants. Standing up has never ever worked. Besides today is Tuesday, and he's said if it's a Tuesday he might use nukes.

[Calculating]

35. Yup

He's threatened nukes, we should just invite the Russians to take our country next. Half of the Republicans would probably welcome them.

[JanMichael]

32. When was Grenada?

[Calculating]

34. If this isn't a worthwhile war

I don't know what is. You literally have a brutal and sadistic sociopath attacking his peaceful neighbor for no reason whatsoever, and bombing cities into the ground.

[bluewater]

36. ikr

[uponit7771]

41. +1, Putrid is committing book definition of genocide

[electric_blue68]

39. I don't support going to war for Ukraine, but supply arms, tech, info etc yes...

Especially as a half 2nd gen Ukrainian-American.

I'm not a complete pacifist. I believe in defending ones self, the people you love, vunerable strangers if you can, or your country if attacked. In case part of my ancestors' country.

I did support the Afghanistan War, but at least partially regret it now. I don't know whether it occured to me that we could have sent Special Ops instead.
Maybe bc "W" didn't look all that competent that day, so it didn't trigger the - 'oh, he could do that!' response in me. (And staying far away from D Chenney as possible )

You have to partially understand: I'm a born, and bred NYC'r. I was in an Art & Architecture (plus Engineering) College down in The Village and watched them being built once they got high enough to see from a distance. They were made fun of at first; 'Oh, they're the boxes that the real buildings came in'.

Well, I ended up from Sept '80 till late Aug '81 working as one of the provisional group that came in to help the NYS Dept of Labor catch up on Labor Certifications. I was in Households section (oh, gawd 😴😴😴 but my colleagues from the different sections were great).

Where were we (they moved in ?mid '80s)?
We were in the NE Corner on the (2 elevators)
73rd floor of the (South) Tower 2. God, what glorious views we had!

Basically the plane exited the Tower about 4 stories above where they would have been if that Dept hadn't moved.
And because I looked down to the plaza as well as looking NE, E, SE, and a bit ?W - I knew what some of those trapped workers were looking at to consider jumping.

Plus I'm a bit of an animist so yeah, I tend to treat things as having some kind of life. Those were "My Towers".

Anyway - I marched against the Iraq War in DC and NYC (the police on horses were scary).
Turned against the Viet Nam War in '67.
Ray-gun's unnecessary wars.

I think I supported B Clinton's actions. The Yugoslavian War/break up was the first war I followed by radio - NPR.
So damn sad.
The bombing of Alleppo - a war crime!

Anyway I still don't want troops in Ukraine as much as it hurts to see the slaughter of civilians, and the bombings!
And it hurts.