Observation from my time in the Army in Europe

[kairos12]

My time dates back 30-40 years ago. At that time the U.S. Army had Six Divisions there and 2 Cav Regiments. Plus 2 Corps Artillery Units and numerous aviation battalions. The total number was around 400,000 troops.

In addition we an exercise called REFORGER that stood for Return of Forces to Germany. Those units flew over from the U.S. and married up with pre-positioned equipment located in Germany. Happened practically every Fall. I don't know the status of that pre-positioned equipment today.

I'm not totally up on our force alignment in Germany, and Europe today, but I think Chump drew us down below 100,000 troops today in Germany. Or attempted to.

This is just an observation that our status of forces in Europe is far weaker today than it was before the wall came down. I'm sure this must weigh on President Biden's mind.

Just some strategery to consider.

[WarGamer]

1. I think it's quite obvious now that NATO has MORE than enough power to repulse ANY threat.

[kairos12]

4. The issue is not NATO.

It is the status of our forces. No other NATO Nations have the heavy tank divisions the U.S. has, at least not in number we have. This is mechanized warfare and one of the issues is no one has the land to train them on. Or the money to pay for them. Most mechanized training is done in the U.S. Tank gunnery and maneuvering is limited in Europe. Not enough space.

[WarGamer]

8. Tanks? DoDo birds.

They're just the latest "battleship"...

Yamato, Bismarck... Tirpitz...

Technological marvels made irrelevant by aircraft carriers and land based air power.

21st century tanks?

Irrelevant in tomorrows wars.

If you believe the casualty numbers from UKR (not sure if I do)

Then the Russians have already lost more tanks than Germany during the Battle of Kursk in 1943. And that's the greatest armor battle in history.

Tanks are only safe when they're facing RPG's (at the most) with large infantry support.

Modern day Man Portable systems have made tanks irrelevant.

We first saw this in WW2, ironically in the Battle of Berlin the Russians lost 2000 tanks to a demoralized army because every damn 55 year old conscriptee and 15 year old Hitler Youth member had 3 Panzerfausts hanging on his shoulder.

[kairos12]

9. There has never been a war won

without holding ground. U.S. Tank deployment would not be hi ho up the road we go. U.S. Tanks are far heavier than Russian tanks and can take considerable more battle damage.

Win a war. Hold the ground. Tanks, infantry, artillery. That has never changed.

[WarGamer]

12. I hear ya...

But things have changed.

IMHO...

The army of tomorrow will need LARGE and highly skilled motorized infantry armies. Lots of man portable AT and AA systems, drones and standoff artillery in the area.

Of course all blanketed by air power.

This is Russia's #1 problem.

They need thousands of skilled infantry to advance BY GROUND to root out the defenders. They've just been charging full speed into defensive infantry with AV's and tanks, it's suicide.

The US, looking back to Iraq... is exceptionally well suited to this kind of warfare.

I've heard stories of hundreds of US troops being held up because of ONE sniper and calling in an A-10 strike to take him out. The Russians are still fighting like it's WW2 and troops are expendable.

[kairos12]

13. Well made points. Thank you.

[Walleye]

2. I remember operation REFORGER very well

I was working for a daily paper in Dover Delaware and got to fly on an Air Force C1 41 with about 100 GI’s to cover the event. It was an impressive show of military force.The only time I’ve ever been to Germany. Vietnam peace talks were going on at the time in Paris I think

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Yes. But there is no Warsaw Pact.

If you rule out nukes, the U K, France, or Germany could fight the Russian Federation to a stalemate. Hell, Ukraine is.

[Achilleaze]

5. The Republican draft dodger weakened America, strengthened Russia

That Republican betrayal of the USA sucks so massively I'm at a loss for words.

[underpants]

6. Never did a REFORGER

but I was in one of those Cav units. I’m guessing REFORGER was when the wall was up.

As bad as the Russian Army seems to be doing, US Brit and French air (from land and sea) would just about wipe them out. Putin better realize what three highly trained and equipped air powers could do to him.

[kairos12]

7. There is no doubt Air Power would be highly effective.

One of the escalation issues would be many of the Russian Air Defense Systems are located in Russia proper. They would have to be taken out to gain air superiority. In the Gulf War Apaches did it. The question is are we ready to attack targets inside of Russia?

[SeattleVet]

10. We participated in REFORGER

I was in the Air Force with a mobile RADAR Tactical Control Squadron based at Sembach (but normally operating from a nearby remote site). We were mainly tasked with tracking air traffic in the Rheinland, but also with some concentration on activities around the Fulda Gap.

(Yeah, we in the Air Force also got our chances to sleep in a tent in the mud!)

[kairos12]

11. I know Sembach well.

I knew many of the Pilots who flew out of RAF Bentwaters and then flew out of Sembach.

Great place. A-10s. Yay!!

[Joinfortmill]

14. Thank you

[JHB]

15. I wonder how much of the propositioned equipment went to the ME in 1991?

Wouldn't be all of it, of course, but the Soviets were ailing and in no position to do anything, and the timing of Desert Storm seemed to be mostly determined by how long it took to shift assets from Europe to staging areas in Saudi Arabia.