This is looking more and more like the Winter War

[DemocratSinceBirth]

This is looking more and more like the Winter War in 1939 when Russia invaded Finland. Finland appeared to be overmatched like Ukraine but fought the Russians to a stalemate. They did lose nine percent of their land in a peace agreement but they maintained their sovereignty. Of the operation Nikita Khruschev said to Stalin now the world will see us as a colossus with feet of clay. l'm hoping for something even better for Ukraine. I pointedly conflated Russia with the Soviet Union. Same crap.

[OAITW r.2.0]

1. Why did Putin select this time to invade?

Summer would have been better for an invasion. Weird that they would complicate their invasion plan.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Who knows?

I just hope Ukraine's battlefield success continues. Napoleon said in war the moral to the physical is three to one.

[OAITW r.2.0]

5. He reminds me of Hitler.

Sure of his convictions until he eventually dies in some unnamed bunker.

[alittlelark]

4. Malignant narcissists with the bio of pUtin are DEEPLY unpredictable

Especially at his age - those worms in his brain have been inbreeding a new generation of insanity.

[OAITW r.2.0]

7. I'm Putin's age.

We have lived through a time of great change. Difference is, I didn't steal a Trillion dollars from my country.

[Gore1FL]

13. I still have a little over a decade to steal that trillion.

I feel like a slacker for putting it off for so long.

[OAITW r.2.0]

16. No, you wouldn't.

Neither of us would want to change places with Putin, even with his corrupted bank account. Is your character worth a Trillion dollars? Not if it is stolen.

[Gore1FL]

17. I was just trying make a joke. Apparently, without much success!

[OAITW r.2.0]

20. Sometimes jokes get plowed over with the train of thought.

[OAITW r.2.0]

28. And your Nick says it all.

I think we found DU at about the same time. I was "Old and In the Way" back then.....and intellectually, still am.


We know how we lost FL in 2000. A brother Governor gamed the voting results to put a brother Governor in POTUS, 9/11 and US defense Policy with regards to providing US Naval protection at no cost to the House of Saud. {Note to self. Check Bush Family fortune 1950-2000} Cool.

New Rule_ Hand SA a bill of $400BB for Naval Security Services rendered - annually -.getting their product to Global Markets. That covers a big part of US Taxpayers cost.

Now does SA absorb or pass to their partners? Can partners pass this on to consumers? Or does EV just make too much sense from a future decentralized transportation/energy economy?

Playing field normalized for reality.....

[WarGamer]

10. 100 different WTF questions for Putin...

[Gore1FL]

12. He didn't imagine failure and didn't plan for it. He expected 2014.

Putin bought into his own "they will greet us as liberators" propaganda, didn't consider the effects of eight years of Ukrainian military training or some combination thereof.

Season wouldn't have mattered if it had gone as planned. He was too arrogant to have backup plan, much less wait for better weather.

[OAITW r.2.0]

18. You'd think he would have learned from Dick Cheney.

Just because you think you will be greeted as a liberator....that don't mean that's the way reality works out.

[Jetheels]

24. Putrid probably got bad insider info from drumpf.

[OAITW r.2.0]

25. What if Trump was fed info that was BS to see if it got picked up within Russian intel networks.

Wouldn't that be something.

[Jetheels]

31. Very likely

They’re on the same team. Of course they share intel.

[left-of-center2012]

26. I think Putin thought Ukraine would just collapse

Puritan assumed Ukraine would surrender within a couple days.

As Gomer Pyle would say:

"Surprise Surprise !"

[madaboutharry]

3. I have been reading about the Winter War.

It is discussed in a biography about Tove Jansson.

The difference will be the rebuilding of Ukraine when the fighting ends. Finland was very much on its own as it struggled economically in the aftermath of the Winter War.. I am confident the world will come together with massive aid.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Plus you had Finlandization

Their foreign policy was dictated by Russia but at least they were free. You know who else the Russians feared: Marshall Tito.

[OAITW r.2.0]

11. You might like the series "Occupy" on Netflix.

This is Ukraine's problem with Russia on steroids.

The good news, when Putin is disposed (and I believe it will happen sooner rather than later) Russia finally admits that they again fucked up following Putin. Maybe a good thing for Russia and Europe in the long term.

[jimlup]

6. Perhaps Ukrain is actually winning ...

but at a very sad and high cost.

[former9thward]

9. Of course the Winter War was followed shortly by the Continuation War.

Where Finland joined the Nazis and attacked the Soviet Union. That did not work out too well for them.

[OAITW r.2.0]

14. I give credit to Finland's dance to remain free of Russia.

What a tightrope for the people of Finland...

[Gore1FL]

15. One thing the Russians failed to take into account was the popularity of skeet shooting in Finland.

With a few modifications to the sport, it's a hell of a way to greet paratroopers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. There wax one Finn who allegedly killed 500 Russians.

[Gore1FL]

21. It blows my mind to think of that scale.

I know there were around 100 German fight pilot aces in WW II who had over 100 kills. I think there were 10-20 with over 200, and another 2 with over 300.

I think there would never be enough therapy in the world to compensate for the realization of the loss personally inflicted, even because of a war. I am forever thankful I was too young for Vietnam and too old for anything now. I feel sorry for all the kids thrown into this grinder. Even the champions have to face the horrors of their heroics.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I believe the man with 500 kills was a farmer.

As to pilots George McGovern and John Glenn were highly accomplished fighter pilots during WW ll which makes the accusation that McGovern was soft or not sufficiently patriotic absurd.

[Postal Grunt]

29. RE: George McGovern

The late Senator McGovern spent a lot of time piloting B-24 bombers during WW2. Stephen Ambrose's book, "The Wild Blue" describes much of McGovern's service time. It's a wonder that he came back in one piece and retained his humanity.

https://www.amazon.com/The-Wild-Blue-Stephen-E-Ambrose-audiobook/dp/B004X712PS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3JLJVF0TEOX4D&keywords=Stephen+Ambrose%2C+The+Bomber+Boys&qid=1648011873&s=books&sprefix=stephen+ambrose%2C+the+bomber+boys%2Cstripbooks%2C130&sr=1-1

[EX500rider]

23. Simo Hayha nickname: "The White Death"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

[suncat]

30. He could be a relative...

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2022, 02:39 AM - Edit history (1)

My husbands family are Finnish (huge family). The last big family reunion happened back in 1978, and the older folks used to sit huddled up joking about really being Sami. Us younger folks chuckled and nodded politely, not knowing what they were talking about...but I remember they used to compare their knowledge skills of both Finnish and Sami. So now I am telling my husband Simo Hayha is his long lost relative...

Thanks for this post!

[pecosbob]

27. It shocked the world when it happened

But the eventual reality there was that the Soviets regrouped and kicked the Finns butts.

[PdamnedQ]

32. I totally agree like Stalin Putin sent in a deficient force.

However, the difference is; that Stalin had troops, and generals, that could have taken Finland.

He did not.

They were urgently needed elsewhere.

Finland won by terrorizing Russian troops that had little motivation to invade.

I met tonight a friend from Finland that can tell the story about how his great-grandfather went out after the battles, with his dad, and stripped the clothes off of the Russian troops, and the posed their bodies, so that when they froze, they would meet their frozen, dead, buddies the next time they tried to approach their town.

This time it is same, but the different.

Putin, and his mafia, are attempting to use "The Bomb" as a means to sterilize international action against them.

They have a problem though, their bombs are ancient, and China (their bombs do work) would really like things to go back to "their normal."

"Land grab over."

The oldest military axiom, in the history of ever, is power sticks with power, shit rolls down hill, and soldiers must be paid.

Putin is, ultimately, finished.

I'm still just trying to wrap my head around how many people will be lost, killed and otherwise, before this whole thing is over. 2 years, 4 years, 10 years.....fuck.