Would it be possible for everyone to talk about women without using insults?

[iemanja]

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2022, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Disclaimer: I'm talking about those who engage in this behavior. It you don't, the OP isn't about you. End of story.
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Do we really need to see Lindsey Graham feminized in a way that insults both LGBTQ+ Americans and women? How is it this meme continues, despite people being told repeatedly that it is insulting? When they know how such taunts are received yet continue the behavior, the only conclusion I can draw is that their insults to women and LGBTQ+ folks are deliberate.

Why do people think it's okay to call women c...ts just because they are Republican? (In case you're not aware, referring to someone as a "cunning stunt" means c...t.). Because when someone invokes such language, it's not just Republicans they insult. Presumably they justify this misogynistic slur because they disagree politically with Republican women. Does that mean Republicans are justified in calling their mothers, wives, and daughters those same names because they disagree with them too?

Why must do some folks enforce puritanical standards of femininity that rivals the far right by calling women whose dress, comportment, or photos they disapprove of "sex workers," as though that disguises what they really mean?

How is it that in 2022, white male entitlement is so pronounced that any Democrat would feel perfectly comfortable using such insults?

Can we just be nice to one another and quit using sexist and homophobic tropes as though they were acceptable? The vast majority of people do, but I find it disturbing that some seemingly well intentioned people do engage in such behavior. Please try to be more aware of your language choices. They matter.

ETA: Someone pointed out that they've seen several "See you next Thursday" references. People should understand that also means c...t.

[North Shore Chicago]

1. Let's turn it around.

The Hindu Goddess Kunti, or great “Yoni of the Universe,” represented the beauty and power of the female body in Mahābhārata, a major Sanskrit epic of ancient India. (And soon to be movie.) The Mahabharata was a historical Hindu text, believed to have been written between 200 and 400 BC, containing mythological and didactic tales of heroism and the sovereign rivalry between two families. Not only did Yoni lead a powerful matriarchy that rivals the discourse of contemporary gender politics, but she encompassed life itself; she was worshiped at hundreds of shrines across the ancient Eastern world.


De-tooth the vulgarity of this word and they will stop using it as an insult.

[hlthe2b]

11. No rehabing this word because it's a gender-based slur, we're not Indian-Hindu nor British & intent

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2022, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)

is clearly misogynistic or incel-driven hate in THIS country.

NO! Women of my generation were taunted with this behind our backs throughout our professional careers to prevent our rising in male-dominated professions. And it worked in the male-dominated board rooms, management meetings, and CEO offices. Younger folks obliviously think it is not so bad, given it is a feature of RAP and the Brits use it, after all. That is insensitive (and foolish self-defeating) claptrap.

[obamanut2012]

21. No, let's not

[Scrivener7]

22. Oh, for fuck's sake.

[MineralMan]

53. Too late for that.

Way too late.

It doesn't mean that in today's English. We don't have a Hindu perspective on language at all. In England the word is used as a general insult, but in the US, it is blatantly a sexist, cruel word used to demean.

It can't be reconfigured by explaining through an ancient Hindu scripture. Nope.

[Wednesdays]

70. Amen.

It would be like "rehabilitating" the "n" word, by saying that after all, it was originally just the Latin word for "black."

[MineralMan]

72. Yes. Relying on word roots to forgive ugly misogynistic usages

is truly a fool's errand.

[RobinA]

96. I Could Not Agree More

I have never understood why people give so much power to these unmentionable words. I'm a female. Call me a c--- until the cows come home, I could not care less. I give that word no power at all.

[North Shore Chicago]

106. Thank you

[meadowlander]

117. It's the context not the origin of the word that's important.

When you call a certain, in your view contemptible person a word to put them in their place and signal to other people that they don't have to listen to or respect that person and the word you pick means "vagina" what you are also doing in reinforcing that other people who also happen to have vaginas are contemptible and should be ignored and put in their place.

You don't detooth the vulgarity of the word by pretending it comes from Hindi instead of Latin. You detooth it by calling people out on the inherent misogyny of using it in the context of attacking a woman, even one we don't like.

[Hekate]

137. That's like trying to rehab the old Sanskrit word& symbol Svastika. Doesn't work.

[FreepFryer]

2. Agree w the sentiment of the OP and the reply above.

Everyone clearly can’t. But people can try, and those who refuse can at least continue to serve as a healthy negative example when called out by people with decency and respect.

[obamanut2012]

3. Thank you!

I am so tired of the Graham thing, and EarlG told people to stop that and the "sly" anti trans stuff, but it is all the fuck over this site. And, calling women sluts, bitches, cunt (in a "cute" way), etc. and people do not think it's wrong.

It is making me think of leaving the site, because this is worse now than it was a couple years ago.

Thanks for the OP.

[spooky3]

5. Agree, sadly. It should not be hard to find appropriate and accurate epithets for poorly

Behaving men or women (“evil jerk”; “stupid racist”; etc.) that are NOT related to the target’s gender.

[obamanut2012]

9. Yes, exactly

"Total and complete fuckwit" is what a British friend called Theresa May, not "stupid bitch."

[BlackSkimmer]

18. EarlG spoke out for trans women indeed.

If he’s made a similar comment about snide remarks about cis women or gay people, I missed it.

I’m not here all the time, so I easily may have missed such a statement.

[obamanut2012]

23. It was in the same OP he did

Specifically towards Graham, but implied generally.

[Scrivener7]

25. I think I remember him commenting on the jokes that feminize Lindsay Graham.

But whether he did or not, it's beneath us.

[BlackSkimmer]

58. Absolutely.

This.

[yardwork]

39. DU admins have spoken out against anti-gay and anti-trans comments.

I've seen them personally ban posters over an anti-trans comment, for instance.

DU has been around a long time, and admins didn't always understand this issue, but, like President Obama, they "evolved." It's been many years now that DU admins have been clear about this.

[LizBeth]

79. Maybe anti-gay and anti-trans. Certainly, racial slurs. But I am not seeing any push back

against sexist slurs. Now granted, I did not see the comment addressing anti-gay and anti-trans slurs, so I probably would not see a comment addressing plain ole boring sexist slurs.

[yardwork]

105. I agree that sexism on DU is a bigger problem than ever.

Can't disagree at all, sadly.

[BlackSkimmer]

59. It does seem worse than usual lately.

Seems to be accepted too.

[obamanut2012]

65. Yeah

I suspect many are "bait" OPs and comments, and the usual suspects don;t call about EarlG's OP a few months ago -- they need to all be FFRed.

[Doodley]

4. I don't understand any of the questions.

[obamanut2012]

24. Why do you think this is helpful?

[Scrivener7]

34. It is helpful to those who like to use slurs and don't want to be told not to.

So.....

[obamanut2012]

66. Bingo!

[yardwork]

40. Maybe you could ask some questions for clarification?

[Doodley]

115. I read the questions several times and do not understand what they are asking.

First question: "Do we really need to see Lindsey Graham feminized in a way that insults both LGBTQ+ Americans and women?"

I don't know what "Lindsey Graham feminized" means. I know he has a problem with women--look at the way he treated Ketanji Brown Jackson--with a level of contempt that he shows for women, and I know he is anti-gay. I can't stand the guy. But I honestly don't understand the question and who is to say what insults Americans, women and LGBTQ?

[DLevine]

116. Some DUers were calling him Lady G. nt

[Doodley]

120. Okay thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. He's a very effeminate lawmaker who is anti-gay. He is

imposing his bigotry on others and denying the rights of others. That is the insult. But let's be nice as we walk nearer and nearer towards a fascist state.

[DLevine]

122. Call him what he really is, a hypocritical jackass. nt

[AntiFascist]

164. This thread was started because someone dared to call Graham "Lady G"?

OMG (apologies to anyone who is religious that I may have offended).

[DLevine]

168. No, that's not why the thread was started. nt

[AntiFascist]

173. I suggest we call him "Lady Bug," how's that? n/t

[DLevine]

174. I call him a pos hypocritical jackass from hell. nt

[Scrivener7]

177. Why is "lady" part of your insult? Why do you think "lady" is an insulting

thing to call a man? Whether you understand what you are doing or not (and I suspect you do), you are saying that women are inferior to men.

[AntiFascist]

179. I should have said "ladybug" as one word, and this is allegedly something...

Lindsey Graham referred to about himself. I prefer not to explain any further, but it has absolutely nothing to do with women, and I mean that absolutely.

[LizBeth]

183. I am so tired of hearing sexist slurs then the user "promise" it has nothing to do with women.

Really, promise. Like we are all stupid. No really, it is about a cat.

[AntiFascist]

188. FYI a ladybug is an insect. If you need to know how it relates to Lindsey Graham, just use Google

[BlackSkimmer]

60. What is it you don't understand?

[BannonsLiver]

187. The thought police are out again making their rounds.

That about sums it up.

[spooky3]

6. Excellent and helpful reminder. Thank you.

[brer cat]

7. Thank you!

I totally agree.

[betsuni]

8. It's why people flocked to Jackpineradicals.com in 2016, so they could call Democrats the c-word.

[Scrivener7]

32. Oh, God! Remember that? Because not allowing it was infringing on their liberteh.

Civility is really impossible for some.

[DLevine]

10. Thank you! nt

[Amishman]

13. The problem is the more we try to suppress such talk, the more it empowers the use of those words

The entire point of offensive language is to offend. The more it bothers us, the more they are encouraged to use it

ignore it, don't take offense.

The words only have power if you let it bother you.

[MindHowYouGo]

16. Words have power. What we call people matters n/t

[RobinA]

98. Words Have The Power

we give them.

[treestar]

150. we were raised with

sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

We were taught not to let these things get to us.

[DLevine]

17. So, you're ok with gay slurs? Racial slurs?

Or is it just gendered slurs that you have no problem with?

[obamanut2012]

27. I bet we know the answer to your question

[DLevine]

28. Yup

[RobinA]

100. I'm White And Not Gay

so I can't say anything about those slurs. But I am a female and I say slur away with female terms. They don't mean anything to me. And yes, I've been called them. I simply refuse to give some word that much power over me.

[DLevine]

102. "Slur away with female terms". That is just sad. nt

[RobinA]

104. It's Very Freeing,

actually, not to be held hostage by some word(s) someone decided was a slur. We should give away less power, not more.

[DLevine]

110. Imagine DU allowing posters to call Clarence Thomas the N word.

Or calling a Jewish person a k***, or using gay slurs, just because we don't like the person. What a cesspool this place would become. Most women don't appreciate being called a c*** or a b**** or a t***. If you're ok with being called those words, that's your business, but those words don't belong on DU.

[treestar]

152. We would not do that

any of that. But when right wingers do, does it not give them power and the will to continue if we tell them it is hurtful? The question being not that we'd use them.

And some are less than others. You've picked out the worst ones.

[DLevine]

156. I don't engage with right-wingers.

Nothing will stop them from doing the horrible things they do. They have no shame. I do encourage DUers to not engage in slurs. Some seem to think gendered slurs are no big deal, but they are a big deal to many of us. Yes, some slurs are worse than others, but none of them should be considered acceptable on a Democratic site.

[treestar]

161. They aren't

But never engaging right wingers will let them keep it up just as well. But engaging with them as their victims doesn't improve them either. I don't think they can just be ignored. Unless you think that sexism and the other isms will go away in time anyway without having to worry about their behavior.

But then for that matter such slurs against Lindsay Graham don't do any good in making him favor better policies either.

[DLevine]

162. The op is about asking DUers to not use gendered slurs.

I agree with the op, slurs against any oppressed group is a bad thing. I have no interest in discussing right-wingers in this thread. I'm hoping to change the minds of DUers who still use gendered slurs.

[treestar]

167. Not using them against Lindsay Graham

is what brought about the thread.

I do think you will succeed. DU has finally stopped using prison rape comments, for example. At least, it seems to to me.

[DLevine]

172. It wasn't just about Graham.

It was about gay slurs, yes, but also about some DUers who feel the need to call a woman a b**** or a c*** or a t***.

[LizBeth]

184. Isn't that ironic? The one insult toward men treating them like women, raping them in prison

Is the 'one" that has stopped. Totally ironic.

[Doodley]

130. I have been mocked because of my accent. I could be offended, but I choose not to be. We can't

be so easily offended by names and words when what is really offensive is that half the lawmakers in this country want to take away our rights and move us closer to a fascist state. That is what is offensive.

[Amishman]

112. I have a problem with all of them, but it doesn't make reacting productive

I won't use them and try to be careful with my own language, but I won't reward those who use offensive language by giving them the attention they crave.

There is no easy way to handle this, as any reaction is giving them attention and this rewarding the behavior

[DLevine]

114. I hear what you're saying, but I disagree that we shouldn't call it out.

If admin suddenly decided to permit slurs on DU (the N word, f**, k***, c***), this place would become extremely hostile to the targeted groups. Many good people would leave, and rightly so, just out of self-respect. You have to call it out. Ignoring it only makes it worse.

[treestar]

154. no one ever mentioned permitting that

it is not to be permitted.

But when talking about right wingers who would have not problem with them, or might be too polite to use them but argue for every sexist or racist policy, there are other issues. The right winger won't react to them, or if they complain they will be hypocritical. The right winger will see the power they get from using the word. And may make fun, saying it doesn't bother them.

[treestar]

151. of course not

Not "ok" with them. The question is how to react to them.

Or whether to use them, on right wingers. I suggest mostly not, but remember they would use them in a minute.

And when you tell right wingers what they say is hurtful, what is the right winger's reaction?

[DLevine]

160. Of course right-wingers use slurs, it's what they do. Fuck them.

Nothing is going to change their behavior. But we need to be better than that, and by that I mean don't use those words on DU.

[BlackSkimmer]

19. So, using that logic, we should use the n word and the r word as much as we want , huh?

Just no.

[CrackityJones75]

57. If by we, you include white people then no.

But black people use it all the time and it has that exact effect. As a middle aged white male who am I to tell them how to use that word?

What I find funny is when it comes to Trump (or really any man we don’t like) we can use whatever words we want. We can talk about private parts, fatness, stupidness, oldness, and we can use any number of words that would be deemed offensive against women.

What is funny about that is the patriarchal attitude that women cannot handle the heat. Which I find funny because I learned to mind my manners a long time ago from a girl my age when I said something ignorant and stupid and she verbally let me have it.

No I am not saying it is ok to insult people and to use disparaging words. But let’s be honest here, when it comes to that there is an awful lot of hypocrisy here and everywhere else.

While I don’t care for using insults all that much (I am a hypocrite too) I do try to look at people’s actual actions or their intent.

With that said fuck that fat assed small dicked stupid piece of shit Trump.

[obamanut2012]

67. lolz

[oldsoftie]

144. I get what you're saying, but if its a noun instead of an adjective.......

I mean, as you say at the end; Trump IS a fat stupid dumbass.

[treestar]

158. No.

Straw man.

No one on DU would use those or suggested it.

[obamanut2012]

26. So, do you call a black person a nword?

Or someone Jewish a k***? Why not???? BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG

[Amishman]

113. I don't use such language, which is not what I'm suggesting

I'm not saying offensive language is OK, I'm saying actively trying to punish or suppress it is counterproductive.

They use it to cause offense, to get attention. By reacting, we give them what they want.

Don't use slurs yourself, but don't reward those who do by reacting

[Torchlight]

148. I don't really see the OP's suggestion as punishment or suppression

To me, it comes across as an appeal to the better angels of our natures. I saw zero punishment, and even less oppression in the request.

[Scrivener7]

29. I say again: Oh, for fuck's sake. In the real world, language matters.

Your argument is the one favored by people who don't want to be called out on their incivility or verbal abusiveness. It puts the onus on the person who was insulted or verbally abused.

It's total bullshit.

The solution is much easier than what you propose and it is this: stop slurring people.

[yardwork]

42. As a gay woman, I've seen that the opposite is true.

Ignoring bad behavior doesn't magically change the behavior. Ignoring it encourages the behavior.

Over and over again, oppressed people are told to wait until everybody agrees before pushing to change laws. Well, what actually works - over and over - is changing the laws. Slave owners weren't going to stop buying and selling people until slavery was outlawed. Then, for a hundred years Jim Crow laws were imposed to essentially re-enslave Black people. Things didn't improve until federal laws were passed making discrimination illegal. And we're watching how hard the Republicans are working to overturn those laws. Why? Because they know that as soon as laws are lifted, a bunch of people will go right back to behaving badly. And they want that "right" to behave badly.

Same with the history of gay rights. People didn't suddenly decide that it was ok for gay people to get married. Laws were changed, and then more people went along with it.

Same with women's rights. Men didn't give women the right to vote out of the kindness of their hearts. Laws had to change first.

Bringing us to this issue on DU. Juries need to enforce DU rules. Ignoring bad behavior encourages bad behavior.

[Hekate]

138. Very well put. Thank you.

[treestar]

163. Men did give women the right to vote in that

the legislatures and POTUS that passed the 19th amendment were surely male dominated if all male. The people who could make it the law were mostly male.

And that law will not be reversed, no matter how many troll Republicans say that women should not be able to vote. I remember Ann Coulter saying that. Interestingly she is one who draws nicknames and insults that DU deplores.

[bullwinkle428]

45. I always find those who say, "words only have power if you assign it to them",

are, 99.9% of the time, straight white males. How do I know? Because I'm part of that fucking community!!

It's unbelievable presumptuous of us to just assume the optimal way to deal with reactions to words, when we haven't had to deal with that kind of marginalization in our lives. Sometimes it's just better to sit back and listen, and make adjustments to our own behavior accordingly.

[yardwork]

49. Thank you!

As a white woman I feel the same way about racism. The white people saying and doing racist things just can't seem to see the problem.

[treestar]

153. But telling them they have power just by using a word

What is their reaction going to be? Very happy to find they have such easily usable power. They don't feel bad about that. They don't feel guilty about that. They'll take it.

[MineralMan]

56. Nope. You are incorrect.

We should not use that kind of language. If others do, it marks them as assholes. If everyone uses that language, the words still mean what they mean, and we join the assholes if we use them.

Just don't.

[iemanja]

76. The purpose is to give offense

and that is how the word is communicated. Words have meaning. How about telling the people who used bigoted language to knock it off rather than telling those who are the target not to be bothered.

[MineralMan]

77. No, that is not the problem.

The problem is attempting to normalize their use.

[LizBeth]

85. I think they have done well accomplishing that and are using that very reasoning

to continue sexism.

[MineralMan]

89. Yes. There is no possible defense for using the c-word.

None. Those who try reveal themselves.

[LizBeth]

92. +1

[treestar]

155. on a message board is not the same as formal speech

all kinds of obscenities are used on DU and that is normalized.

DU has tried and perhaps succeeded in getting people to stop with certain things. OP is trying on this. The B word for right wing females, not making prison rape jokes, those seem to have succeeded. Interesting process.

[MineralMan]

171. DU is a community. If some violate that community's standards,

They will be confronted. Thus, the comments in this thread. Assaults that are misogynistic, homophobic, or racist in nature will be called out here. Period.

[iemanja]

90. All these years black people have been encouraging

whites to call them the n word. It's all the fault of black people complaining. That is what you are saying. Do you see how that looks when you turn it on women?

[Solly Mack]

127. That's utter and complete bullshit.

Words are tools - tools that can be used as a weapon. Weapons can be used to attack or defend.

More importantly, words shape and inform thought and concepts. Meaning they can determine how a person thinks, which in turn influences how they act.

If a person is comfortable using sexist, racist, or homophobic slurs then it's a safe bet they are equally as comfortable engaging in sexist, racist, and homophobic thought and action.

Such actions include how they vote, how they view events like the murder of George Floyd, how they see rape and rape victims, how they view LGBT people, discrimination, how they view women in the workplace, whether or not they cling to outdated and oppressive gender roles, how they view America's history of bigotry - and how they see themselves in relation to those who have been on the receiving end of that bigotry.

All of the above examples carry with them intent - intent determined by and driven by their use of words. The words that shaped their thinking.

There's a lot of power behind the words to thoughts to actions of a racist cop, for example. A sexist judge. Or the homophobic governor. Or members of Congress at both the state and federal levels.

To pretend that by ignoring the initial bad behavior somehow reduces the power behind those slurs is ludicrous. Those words shaped the thoughts that directed the actions that lead to banning books on race, gender roles, and sexuality; to ignorant legislation like "Don't say Gay", and to all other forms of discrimination. Witness the confirmation hearing of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson for more evidence.


Words matter. How they are used matters. When they are used matters. Word selection matters - even a single word.

How people use words tells on them - whether they realize it or not.

It says a lot about them, whether they like it or not.



Black people's use of the N-word is nothing like when white people use the word. Though racists always make the comparison.

Oppressed groups often adopt the words of abuse hurled at them to take control and reduce the sting of the words used.

LGBT people do it.

Women do it.

But they all do it for entirely different reasons than the bigot who uses a slur to attack.

Racist, sexist, and homophobic slurs are meant to harm. They are meant as an attack. Nothing but.

The victims of homophobia, sexism, and racism didn't decide a word was a slur - the assholes using the slurs made it so. They did so not only with their words - which form their thoughts - but with their actions, and those actions include use of the word/slur as a weapon to dehumanize and degrade. To reduce someone, to make them less. To justify their hate and discrimination.

[Behind the Aegis]

142. You sum it up perfectly!

...actions include use of the word/slur as a weapon to dehumanize and degrade. To reduce someone, to make them less. To justify their hate and discrimination.

It is one thing to speak about something offensive in a didactic way; I don't have issue with that use. However, to pretend offensive words aren't anything more than bullying tactics is just ignorant.

[Solly Mack]

147. Thank you.

How anyone denies the power of words, for good and for bad, is beyond me. Thought may as well not exist for them. Books, songs, and movies may as well not exist for them.

The idea that a slur is only offensive if you take offense is like saying I'm sorry for anyone I might have offended after making an offensive remark.

Blaming the victims of racial, sexist, and homophobic verbal abuse - when that was the intention of the abuser the whole time. To cause harm.

Pretending it didn't happen won't make it stop. Won't make it go away. And those words of hate always carry the threat of action.

Ignoring hate does not make it go away.

It only emboldens it.

[LizBeth]

185. Blaming the victim while standing virtuously. I didn't do it. The person I insulted

shouldn't have been insulted. What? A better person would not have been even though that was the exact intent.

[Doodley]

128. Well said Amishman.

[treestar]

149. True. And right wingers would use those words against

anyone else. Us not using them is mature and going higher. But now we are questioning whether that helps us or not. After TFG, it is difficult to be sure.

[oldsoftie]

14. Same with the grave dancing.

Its just AWFUL when the RW is happy to see RBG pass, but then Clarence Thomas goes into the hospital & people proudly announce prayers for a speedy death. Same with Scalia.

But every time I've seen the "C word" I've also seen a hide. First time I found out what "see you next Tuesday" meant was when it was posted HERE! And it got hidden as well. But hides here are all over the place; much like locked threads.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Not Sure How You See That As Parallel

I'm on board with the OP.
But, I don't see that as at all equivalent to the "grave dancing" you referenced.
Wishing a comeuppance to a terrible person is not at all like using an insult toward one person that offends many unintended targets.
Seems like apples & elephants, to me.

[yardwork]

43. Agreed.

[OneGrassRoot]

35. I'm gonna vent here too...lol

I'd never heard of "see you next Tuesday" until your post, but YES to everything said in the OP and the thread.

I know this gets away from the message of the OP and I tend to dislike when that happens, so sorry...lol.

Might I add that I will never, ever understand what I perceive as the juvenile behavior of name calling. There are hundreds of middle school names for Trump and all the Trump followers. Just use their initials and add fuckwit, as someone above suggested. That's fitting and suffices. I don't find all the name calling clever as the users seem to intend.

Lastly, DU is a discussion board. DISCUSSION. Oftentimes one-third of the posts are someone making a statement (usually about something obscure to most of us), more and more often now followed by "that is all." Well, okie dokie then. Another third use exaggerated or inflammatory verbiage in the subject line to attract attention, just like clickbait articles.

I still sift through the posts as DU has always been one of my favorite news and discussion aggregators but it has really degraded, through no fault of the admins.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I won't express this point again and shall go back to being silent...lol.

[oldsoftie]

36. Glad I wasn't the only one!! I really thought I WAS. And I agree with you too

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. But its NOT to those doing it.
Like you say; DU is for DISCUSSION. But heaven forbid if you want to discuss something unpopular but valid!!

[BlackSkimmer]

61. I gotta agree with you with all the cutesy name slurs people make up for tfg, Putin, whomever.

It is middle school, as you say.

What’s sad is that those who do it the most think they’re being really clever. Go figure.

[Dial H For Hero]

62. Thank you! All of these childish names and acronyms are simply used show that the poster is one of

the “cool kids”.

[oldsoftie]

83. Good way to put it

[BlackSkimmer]

99. "Kid" being the operative word here lol.

I remember kids making up names for teachers that way.

I thought it was silly then too.

[treestar]

157. Some of them are clever

Putler, that's clever. Trumplethinskin. Trumpertantrum.

TFG isn't all that clever, it's just an acronym for a fact.

Tangerine Idi Amin - awesome.

It just shows disdain for people who deserve it.

[Tarc]

55. Apples & oranges, bud

I will tapdance on that fucker's grave.

[oldsoftie]

81. Well there ya go. Difference of opinion. Some people deserve a disparaging word too then

I'm sure I can come up with a few for Marjorie Taylor Greene. I have.

[obamanut2012]

68. The cute "cword" terms are almost always left up, and wtf gravedancing?

Please, make your own OP about gravedancing, there is no parallel to the OP.

[LizBeth]

94. +1

[Raine]

15. TOTALLY Agree and THANK YOU!!! 👍 nt

[Scrivener7]

30. Kick.

[dixiechiken1]

31. Sticks and stones...

[Ohio Joe]

37. The slurs come out when it's thought it can be gotten away with

A repug or some other POS is the topic and out come the insults to whatever extent it’s felt can avoid a hide.

[iemanja]

87. Do you approve of such language?

Is that your point? Do you not understand that when you insult a Republican woman with those terms, you are also insulted all the women who read the post?

[Ohio Joe]

93. I do not...

I was simply pointing out the times people who do use them, attempt it here. I've alerted on them when I see them and vote to hide whenever on jury for them.

[iemanja]

95. I'm glad to hear that

that wasn't true with a recent case, and I wrote this post after ruminating on that and other things I'd seen just yesterday.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. K&R

[luv2fly]

41. Let's get rid of people calling others "dicks" too

Works both ways right?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

44. .

Works both ways right?

Oppressive language generally does not.

[luv2fly]

51. So some slurs are okay?

So confusing. We need a list of the gender-derived slurs that apparently are acceptable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. If you're confused by such things, you might find it helpful to not use any slurs at all, rather

than relying on a list.

[CrackityJones75]

63. I believe that was the point.

[yardwork]

107. If that was the point, then what's the controversy?

Is anyone in this thread demanding the right to use certain slurs and not others? I don't see anything like that. Instead, I see the same old lame-ass attempt to avoid confronting a problem by heaving a bunch of "both sides" and "whattabout" arguments around. Boring and lazy, actually.

[iemanja]

78. It's like when white people claim to be the victims of racism

Just like that. That's how it cuts both ways. The oppressor tells the oppressed that he is the one who is truly aggrieved to ensure the oppressed keeps their mouths shut.

That said, I have no problem avoiding the word dick.

[LizBeth]

86. +1. Exactly

[oldsoftie]

101. So you don't think whites can be victims of racism?

Everyone can be oppressed if there is an oppressor close enough.

[yardwork]

108. Individuals can be victims, but we're talking about systemic oppression here.

Do you believe that whites as a group are as victimized by racism as people of color?

If so, I'm not sure I can change your mind, but check out the book How to be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi. It's an excellent summary.

[oldsoftie]

111. Oh no, I don't believe that at all. But some think it can't happen at all

Some even will say that black people cannot be racists.
But to equate what the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc have gone through in the US (as some will always bring up) with what black people have had to deal with is certainly comparing apples to airplanes.

[iemanja]

133. Who exactly is the racial oppressor of whites?

White people pretending to be the victims of racism is a means by which white people enforce subjugation of non-whites. The same is true for inequality of women and LGBTQ+ individuals.

[oldsoftie]

143. Any race can oppress any other race. Saying it only goes 1 way is false.

Plenty of lawsuits have proven that point. You don't think blacks can oppress whites in a work environment or in a neighborhood or business? It happens. Is it to the same level of what blacks have put up with? Of course not.

[iemanja]

180. If a black person calls you a name

Are you suddenly stopped on a regular basis by the police?
Are you accosted when you go into a bank for supposedly being a robber?
Do you run a substantially elevated chance of being killed by police?
Are you excluded from jobs because of the color of your skin?
Do your chances of getting a bank loan decrease, for no other reason than your skin color?

The answer is No. You are not a victim of racism, and the argument that white people are victims is key to white dominance.

RW judges, appointed by the likes of Trump, Reagan, and Bush, have sided with white people on affirmative action, but not on the notion that white people are victims. That, however, is a major tenet of the GOP. There can be no civil rights lawsuit based on discrimination against white people since whiteness isn't a protected class under law.

[oldsoftie]

181. You continue to excuse it by comparing scale. Racism is racism.

if it happens to one person thats wrong. Quit trying to say white people dont have to experience it just because its not on the scale that blacks do.
And depending on where you live you may very well experience some of those things that you mention.
While racism among cops is certainly a problem to be addressed, I've long had the opinion that the bigger problem is an abuse of power problem more than a race problem. Did you know that black cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black men than white cops? Its true. POWER is a corrupting influence and when people get power some of them will also abuse that power. And some of them are black people and there are many employment cases proving that.
I'm a middle aged white guy and I've been told "White people don't come into this store". "Why are you here? White people don't come around here". "You need to take another elevator" And I was either going to get off that elevator or I was going to be taken off of it. I have other examples & I'm sure you'll dismiss all of them. But if I'm made to feel uncomfortable or fearful, its WRONG. And if its because I'm white its WRONG. All of that is racist behavior. You think its just fine because it doesn't happen nearly as often as it does to black people?
The Jews have been oppressed and assaulted more than any other group in the history of the world. Does that mean slavery wasn't a big deal? Hell no. Just because the scale is different doesn't make it any less WRONG.

[yardwork]

47. Actually, it doesn't.

There's a big difference. The OP is about using a slur that implies a man is less than a man because he appears to be gay or feminine.

Calling someone a "dick" means the person is a jerk. It's usually used against men by men. It's the equivalent of calling someone an "ass."

There is no insult that implies that somebody is "less than" simply because they're a man, or masculine.

[luv2fly]

50. Yeah not so much

All these gender-derived slurs are offensive and are used in a variety of ways. If one needs to go they all need to go.

[obamanut2012]

64. It isn't a gendered slur, you are being so offensive

Just stop it.

[luv2fly]

71. Huh?

The OP talks about not insulting women in our use of language in DU, and I agree. That isn't related to gender?

So no, not stopping. Enjoy the day.

[obamanut2012]

75. Huh?

[iemanja]

80. but really what you want to ensure

Is that none go, right?

[Ferrets are Cool]

48. I can and do agree to quit using sexist and homophobic tropes

I haven't in a long, long time, but I cannot agree to "just be nice". They(repugs) haven't earned, nor do they deserve niceness.

[iemanja]

82. Can you be nice to other DUers?

That's the question I posed. The Republicans aren't seeing posts here, but other DUers do.

[LizBeth]

88. When using a sexist or racist slur you are insulting/hurting ALL of that group.

Not just the "mean" Republican. I do not know why that concept is so hard with sexism but seems to be widely understood with racism and anti gay.

[oldsoftie]

145. Well, apparently not when talking about Lindsey graham

the "Miss Lindsey" & other comments have been around here for years

[AntiFascist]

175. Whenever I hear something like "Miss Lindsey" or "Lady G"...

I usually assume it came from another member of the LGBTQ or LGBTQ-friendly community. Maybe there is a bit of self-hatred involved in this kind of language, but I would agree, this kind of language has been around for a long time. I certainly don't see it being intended to be insulting to women. It is intended to be insulting to someone with rigid gender conforming beliefs.

[Scrivener7]

176. I always assume it comes from someone who thinks women are inherently inferior.

Because that is the inference of the slurs.

[AntiFascist]

178. I appreciate your point of view, but I disagree...

the slurs from my point of view are intended to reference gay men.

[Scrivener7]

182. Yes. Their aim is to insult gay men by comparing them to women.

Because being a woman, from the point of view of the one making the slur, is inferior. And from the point of view of the one making the slur, the feminine aspects of gay men are what make them inferior.

[LizBeth]

186. +1

[Tarc]

54. Indeed. There are many, many words we can use for, say, MTG or Boebert.

Assholes.
Fuckheads.
Dipshits.
Inbred, right-wing, knuckle-dragging fascists.

The B-word and the C-word are the low-hanging fruit of insults, avoid them.

MTG and Boebert aren't degenerate vermin because they're women. They're degenerate vermin who happen to also be women.

[iemanja]

84. Colorfully and well said!

[COL Mustard]

69. I will admit that I'm guilty of that

To those I've offended, I apologize. I now have a different term to refer to him.

[LizBeth]

73. I agree and have spoken out also. Insulting all women. No way would we use a racist slur to

attack a black Republican, would not be allowed even for a second. But time and time and time again we watch here progressives' sexist slurs slide with excuses, well she is. Then in hypocrisy we throw up threads when the right use sexist slurs for our women.

[obamanut2012]

74. Indeed, well said

[CTyankee]

91. Any Dem who stoops to that should be ashamed of himself (or herself should that be the case).

And anyway, VILE is so much better an adjective. SOULLESS is very good, also. As is UGLY.

Yep, that just about sums up Sen. Graham.

Next!

[BradAllison]

97. I'm sorry Lindsey Graham has problems

That manifest themselves in bizarre ways as he tries to keep his place in a party that actually despises his existence.

I truly, truly am.

Wait, I thought thought the headline was about women, not Lindsay. Hmmm.

[iemanja]

136. Of course he has problems

that isn't the point.

Lindsay Graham is regularly feminized, as though to say being a woman is the worst thing anyone can possibly be.

[SYFROYH]

103. I agree and I support this request.

And I've been known to make many blunders regarding sexism and misogyny by underappreciating the impact of my words.

We can do better at DU.

[yardwork]

109. Thank you! It's progress not perfection for all of us.

[milestogo]

119. I cringe every time someone on DU uses the slur "douchebag".

And every time I have ever complained about this sexist language I have been slapped down.

[treestar]

166. at times a word will become so used

that its origins are completely forgotten.

[beaglelover]

121. As a gay man, I have no issues with feminizing Lindsey Graham.

It's funny as hell.

[obamanut2012]

123. That's nice for you

[beaglelover]

126. Thank you!

[obamanut2012]

140. It's so sweet you don't give a damn about how women feel about this

Or our trans sisters and brothers.

You are just precious AF.

[beaglelover]

146. Thanks again!

[obamanut2012]

165. It is really sad you think gendered and lgbt slurs sre okay

And even sadder you think you are being funny and cute. I am not even angry at you, i just feel deep and sincere pity for you.

[beaglelover]

169. And I think it's really sad that you let mere words affect your life so much.

But you be you, and I'll be me, and we'll both be happy! Have a great evening!

[treestar]

159. I would hate if someone called me these things

but then I was taught not to let that get to me. You can't, or the bully will keep it up. It's allowing them to make you a victim.

Do you disagree with Eleanor Roosevelt's line about noone being able to make you feel inferior without your consent?

Not following that gives right wingers power. They don't learn from it. They just learn they have a way to make others feel inferior and will gleefully use it.

[Scrivener7]

129. As a woman, I have an issue. It suggests that calling a man a woman is an insult.

It infers that femininity is inherently inferior to masculinity.

Do you find it funny as hell when people insult other people by calling them "queer" as if there is something inherently wrong with being queer?

Same thing. Not funny as hell.

[beaglelover]

132. You're entitled to your beliefs as am I.

I also have no issue with the word Queer. I embrace it, not repel against it.

[iemanja]

134. Queer isn't an insult

It's an identity.

[beaglelover]

139. Tell that to the people who try to use that word as an insult.

[Doodley]

131. He's anti-gay. He wants to deny you rights, yet he feminizes himself. Of course, it is funny.

[Demsrule86]

124. I have seen few such incidences of what you describe...I suggest following the TOS rules to deal

with such infractions.

[iemanja]

135. that doesn't always work

So I sought to appeal to people's decency in the hope that they will be more aware in the future, including when they serve on juries.

[obamanut2012]

141. So many instances, and most go unhidden

It has ramped up even worse than usual lately, and it is always bad for women/LGBT on here. There is a reason why so many women have left DU over the years.

It is interesting you don't see it, because you have been in some of the threads. No, you don't do it, but you don't see it.

[LiberalFighter]

125. There are other insults that do not involve gender.

ie sleaze ball for instance.