General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOntario rescue refuses to adopt dogs out to any family with an autistic child.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/this-ontario-couple-tried-to-adopt-a-dog-the-rescue-group-said-no-because-their-son-has-autism/ar-AAVr6eh?li=AAggXBVMike and Erin Doan of Listowel, Ont., began inquiring about adopting a dog this week after their nine-year-old son Henry communicated to them that he wanted one.
Henry is non-verbal and only recently began speaking with the help of special software installed on an iPad.
"He said, 'Want a dog now,'" said Erin. "It makes us very happy because we've always been dog people, and we were holding off for a bit until we were sure that Henry was ready.
SNIP
Although Kismutt Rescue did not respond to multiple requests by CBC News, the organization wrote a lengthy post on Facebook about its policy against allowing families with a child with autism to adopt a dog.
SNIP
The post goes on to detail two separate occasions involving a child with autism who injured a dog after Kismutt Rescue adoption. In one case, a child bit a dog. In the other, a child hit a dog with a fan.
"After the second incident with the second dog, I made a policy that NO dog will be adopted into homes with Autistic children," the post says.
patricia92243
(12,590 posts)she has several dogs returned because an autistic child was hitting, kicking, etc. them. The dogs were cowed until it was hard for my niece to rehabilitate them.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Plenty of "normal" children have hurt animals.
patricia92243
(12,590 posts)kcr
(15,300 posts)CurtEastPoint
(18,549 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Jilly_in_VA
(9,852 posts)This is like those stupid "breed-specific" bans.
My friend has a pit bull-boxer mix. She also has an autistic child. She had the dog first. The dog is 9. The child is 6. The dog is absolutely nothing short of wonderful with that child. First of all, she is about as laid back as any dog I've known and a real "girly girl" who likes to have a bow or a flower on her collar. (She does have a big bark, though!) And she and the kid have what looks like a really unbreakable bond. According to mom, it's been going on since the kid was born and the dog looked him over and decided he was some kind of odd, hairless puppy who needed to be protected and cared for and worried over. She is the child's constant companion at home and they love one another. He knows not to roughhouse with her or grab her, and his mom says that he never got nipped while learning that, just "fussed at like any puppy would be". It's going to be hard for him when the dog dies, but she hasn't shown any signs of health problems so far. There are other autistic kids who have service dogs or support dogs, so this ban is just DUMB.
Demovictory9
(32,321 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)North Shore Chicago
(3,254 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #7)
pnwmom This message was self-deleted by its author.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)But it is their right to decide who they will adopt to. I frequently see rescue adoptions stating they will not adopt to anyone with young children, often it is specific to the specific cat or dog up for adoption but not always.
Jilly_in_VA
(9,852 posts)is specific to the animal, usually after they have been with a foster family or observed carefully by shelter personnel. We try them out with other animals and with multiple people at a time. We put our dogs in play groups outside after they've been vetted by shelter personnel, and the cats in a playroom in groups of two or three, to see how they get along. Someone is always there to rescue anyone being picked on or to break up a potential fight. We also observe for behaviors like toy or food guarding and watch how the animals behave around visitors with children. Generally speaking, it's pretty easy to tell within a week or less which ones will not be happy with young children, which ones will be happier with seniors, who needs to be an "only child", etc.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)I used to do the actual adoption pick ups for a rescue I volunteered with, I cant remember what they did but the owner and others screened all the furries in advance. I fostered some kittens then as well. I think she preferred not to adopt to anyone with children under a certain age.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)In our case, we've had three dogs from different breeders, and none of them demanded that our acre lot be fenced in -- but the rescues would only adopt out to people who had houses with fenced backyards.
We also got a dog when our son was 9 -- even though some rescues won't adopt out to families with any children. But the only reason we got the dog then was because our son was begging -- and he turned out to be a wonderful dog owner.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)My parents bought a pb puppy when I was three, no such requirements then but that was many years ago and things were different. I think some have gotten more specific now about what they require maybe. It depends on the dog breed as well. The fence issue is variable I would guess depending in the breeder. I think it is better for the dog to be able to run around safely in a fenced area. Maybe little dogs dont need it as much as they can also be litter trained and dont need as much exercise.
Since then I have only ever had one pb kitty, she screened me, we met in person for a few hours, and did a dvm reference etc., no children so that was not an issue and kitty had to be indoor only etc., there were other requirements. Reputable breeders want their babies to live long happy lives, so they do have requirements and dont sell to anyone. The rest of my fur babies have come from town shelters, rescues and directly from outside after being dumped as I do tnr for kitties and care for them as well.
The rescue requirements may seem sometimes a bit stringent but I know that they are dealing with mostly cats and dogs who have often been dumped, abandoned and or who have been though trauma and they want to give them the best chance at a permanent home. The majority of rescues will not adopt out an unfixed pet and many breeders fix them as puppies and kittens to prevent accidental or intentional backyard breeding. Reputable breeders will take back their pets and so will rescues yet people frequently dump them outside, or drop them off at the shelter when they are old and sick or have behavioral issues or they are moving etc. which is where I come in because I have helped and rescued numerous cats dumped outside, mostly on my own, over the years.
kcr
(15,300 posts)to call them out for the assholes they are.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)But that certainly is your right to feel that way.
Response to Meowmee (Reply #22)
Post removed
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Response to pnwmom (Original post)
pinkstarburst This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)also frequently say that dogs should only be adopted from rescues, not bought from breeders. Many people don't meet the strict requirements that their local rescues have for adoption-worthy families.
https://www.peta.org/features/reasons-never-buy-dog/#:~:text=Buying%20from%20breeders%20destroys%20the,%2Dbirth%E2%80%9D%20is%20the%20solution.
Are you combing the internet to find a dog for sale to welcome into your family? You may be looking for a certain kind of dog who will be happiest in your home, whether thats based on size, temperament, or type of fur. The good news is that you never need to buy a dog. You will always be able to find a dog who is up for adoption and fits into your household. Here are 10 reasons to stay away from all breeders and adopt instead:
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a shortage, as you say, of those needing a home.
Our daughter and SIL wanted to adopt 2 kittens from a rescue and were turned down when they said they had a pet door so the kittens would be playing with their dogs and other cat in their very secure, large, fenced back yard. They had to adopt elsewhere but at least had the satisfaction of learning their vet told the woman the kittens lost a good home with people who took excellent care of their pets.
Rescuers are what they are and get to set their parameters, though. In this case, it wouldn't be possible for a typical person to evaluate autistic children competently. They certainly deserve to be, but that's a job for a professional.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)whom they knew better than anyone else did, was ready.
I think the rescue was wrong to make a blanket policy like that. At the least they could require a note from a doctor. But children with autism are as varied as children without, and this policy is unfair.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)
pinkstarburst This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)occurred to me that the rescue (is that what we call them?) might have asked for a professional psychological evaluation of fitness to be around household pets (after all, parents who could afford it would be paying for it); but in her place I'd still be cautious about accepting it if I didn't know the professional was conscientious. She's not covering her legal derriere here but looking for safe and happy homes.
Also, they need to maintain decent reputations and, as part of fairness, be reasonably consistent in their policies. Plus, let's face it, they're inevitably going to feel their main responsibility is to the vulnerable creatures they're trying to find homes for. Unfair to expect otherwise.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)won't help.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)children to be on site to see how they interact with the pet before agreeing to go through with the adoption or sale (in the case of a breeder). My siblings all took their children with them to the breeders to pick out their dogs and the owners were able to see how they interacted before placing them. You can pretty much tell right away how a child will treat a dog after they spend a few minutes with them.
My nieces and nephews are so loving with thier dogs and the dogs adore them back. They would never even think of being rough with them and their dogs are such loyal companions. It's very sweet to see the mutual love they have between them. We were like that too as children. Our dogs were absolutely loved and adored and we would do anything for them. They were almost too spoiled.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #15)
pinkstarburst This message was self-deleted by its author.
Coventina
(26,846 posts)They have made a lifetime commitment to that animal. Any reputable rescue will take back an adopted animal, no questions asked.
If they have had bad experiences with a certain type of adopter, then that is their choice.
I have an autistic nephew who despises every animal he comes into contact with. They tried therapy dogs, therapy horses, therapy cats, even therapy porpoises, he hates them ALL!
Now, I know that doesn't hold true for every autistic child, but I can see where a rescue who has had multiple bad experiences adopting out to families with autistic children might decide the risk is not worth it TO THE ANIMAL!
It is not as if it is impossible to get a dog from another, less choosy shelter, or even (ugh) a breeder.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)not buy dogs from breeders. They can't have it both ways.
Coventina
(26,846 posts)Your local gov't run animal control facility doesn't give any fucks what medical conditions your family members might have.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)And most of the few dogs available are either Chihuahuas (often imported from out of state) or pit bulls. No thanks.
Maybe this is different in states where spay/neuter campaigns are less successful, but few dogs here end up in shelters (and almost no puppies.)
Here is what PETA says.
https://www.peta.org/features/reasons-never-buy-dog/#:~:text=Buying%20from%20breeders%20destroys%20the,%2Dbirth%E2%80%9D%20is%20the%20solution.
Are you combing the internet to find a dog for sale to welcome into your family? You may be looking for a certain kind of dog who will be happiest in your home, whether thats based on size, temperament, or type of fur. The good news is that you never need to buy a dog. You will always be able to find a dog who is up for adoption and fits into your household. Here are 10 reasons to stay away from all breeders and adopt instead:
Coventina
(26,846 posts)Because that does seem extreme.
However, requiring a fenced yard for a single-family home is somewhat reasonable.
I would never own a dog without a fenced in yard.
Otherwise, you would have to commit to walking your dog for potty. Not many people in single-family homes are willing to do that.
Apartment dwellers know that is what they are signing on for.
Saying that PETA represents "everyone" in the rescue advocacy universe is vastly overstating the case.
Regarding your local animal control, yes, many breeds are over represented there but I would be SHOCKED to learn there are no alternatives.
Plus, there are many, many rescues with a whole constellation of different outlooks and requirements. It's not a choice between one picky rescue and animal control.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)We walk them multiple times every day; and one of the first things they learn to do is come when we call, so we can play with them in the yard.
Our parents also had dogs without fenced in yards, so we knew it was do-able. Also, many people in apartments have dogs, and their dogs get exercise.
https://www.thatmutt.com/most-dogs-dont-need-a-fenced-yard/
A fenced yard is convenient when you own a dog, but most dogs dont need a fenced yard.
Sometimes people who would like to adopt a dog think they need to have a house with a fenced yard first.
Yes, that would be nice. Its very convenient for the person as far as letting the dog out. But dogs can get enough exercise in other ways. Its OK to have a dog if you live in an apartment as long as you have plans to walk your dog every day.
For example, Lindsays Lab mix Ace never had a fenced yard and he got a lot of exercise, training, socialization and interaction without a yard.
When he was younger, Lindsay dedicated even more time to exercising him. They often went running for an hour each morning. Even if you are not a runner, there are other ways to provide exercise for your dog.
snip
Coventina
(26,846 posts)Wingus Dingus
(8,049 posts)We take them out, they do their business, we bring 'em back in. Three or four times a day. It's not a big deal--No need for a fence. I think it's an excessive requirement for adoption.
Coventina
(26,846 posts)just chain the dog in the backyard because they can't be bothered to supervise potty time?
It might not seem fair, but rescues have to think in terms of "worst case scenario" because that is exactly what the animal has been rescued from.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Coventina
(26,846 posts)rescues.
ONE rescue saying it won't adopt to a family with an autistic child and SOME rescues/animal controls requiring a fenced back yard (for single family homes) does not eliminate the literally THOUSANDS of rescue options out there.
If one little setback sends to you to a breeder, then you were never seriously considering rescue in the first place.
One quick perusal of Nextdoor or Craig's List will provide families desperate to re-home their pets due to tragic circumstances, and I doubt they would require a fenced backyard or a clean bill of health from all family members.
DenaliDemocrat
(1,472 posts)Pushing aggressive pitbulls and bullys that by all rights should be euthanized. Encouraging puppy mills to supply them. Fighting with each other over dogs. Charging $500 plus for dogs with questionable health and temperament. Just fuck them.
I raise dogs bred and tested under German regulations that are strict on behavioral, ability, and health testing not just on my dog - but on every dog in the pedigree. My puppies sell for just about 2xs of a shelter. Fuck those shelters and fuck the pitbull lobby because they started this shit.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)where rescues scoop up puppies from mills, and then later push them into "adoptions" for profit.
Why people think a puppy mill dog is better if it's been laundered through a rescue is beyond me.
Coventina
(26,846 posts)Do you have links?
Any rescue that is participating in that behavior needs to be outed immediately!
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Dog rescuers, flush with donations, buy animals from the breeders they scorn
By Kim Kavin Photos by Salwan Georges Videos by Zoeann Murphy Updated April 18, 2018
An effort that animal rescuers began more than a decade ago to buy dogs for $5 or $10 apiece from commercial breeders has become a nationwide shadow market that today sees some rescuers, fueled by Internet fundraising, paying breeders $5,000 or more for a single dog.
The result is a river of rescue donations flowing from avowed dog saviors to the breeders, two groups that have long disparaged each other. The rescuers call many breeders heartless operators of inhumane puppy mills and work to ban the sale of their dogs in brick-and-mortar pet stores. The breeders call retail rescuers hypocritical dilettantes who hide behind nonprofit status while doing business as unregulated, online pet stores.
But for years, they have come together at dog auctions where no cameras are allowed, with rescuers enriching breeders and some breeders saying more puppies are being bred for sale to the rescuers.
Bidders affiliated with 86 rescue and advocacy groups and shelters throughout the United States and Canada have spent $2.68 million buying 5,761 dogs and puppies from breeders since 2009 at the nations two government-regulated dog auctions, both in Missouri, according to invoices, checks and other documents The Washington Post obtained from an industry insider. At the auctions, rescuers have purchased dogs from some of the same breeders who face activist protests, including some on the Humane Society of the United States Horrible Hundred list or the No Pet Store Puppies database of breeders to avoid, maintained by the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
Most rescuers then offered the dogs for adoption as rescued or saved.
SNIP
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/usda-says-individuals-and-groups-may-need-license-if-buying-dogs-for-rescue-at-auction/2018/04/18/1ae671aa-427a-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html
USDA says individuals and groups may need license if buying dogs for rescue at auction
A Washington Post investigation showing that buyers affiliated with 86 rescue and dog-advocacy groups and shelters nationwide have spent $2.68 million buying dogs at auctions has ignited fierce debate and late Tuesday, the U.S. Agriculture Department issued a bulletin stating that such individuals and nonprofits may need to be licensed under the federal Animal Welfare Act.
Our job is to ensure the humane treatment of the animals we regulate, Deputy Administrator Bernadette Juarez, who leads the departments animal-care program, said in the bulletin, which cited dog acquisitions from an auction for resale (including adoption) as pets as a reason that individuals or groups may require federal regulation.
Response to the USDA announcement was swift. The Humane Society of the United States which in March sued the USDA, claiming it has failed to release breeding-kennel inspection reports in violation of open-records law said the agency should instead do a better job of regulating breeders.
BREAKING: the USDA is planning to scrutinize pet rescue groups and require many of them to become licensed even as it fails to crack down on puppy mills and covers up their inspection reports, the Humane Society posted on the Facebook page of its Puppy Mills Campaign.
Coventina
(26,846 posts)mathematic
(1,430 posts)Does Canada not have similar anti-discrimination laws?
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)Me ex and I were trying to adopt a rescued dog rather than purchase one from a breeder. We had two small children, but didnt have a fenced in yard. We had success with the invisible fence system before and were planning on using it again. For both of those reasons, several local rescue organizations wouldnt consider us. Theyd rather have a dog sit in a kennel without a home than let us adopt a dog. In the end, we bought a dog from a breeder. The breeder asked no questions and sold us a puppy without any hassle.
Meanwhile, how many of these righteous dog rescue people eat meat and dont hesitate to murder an animal for their dinner. I guess not all meat is created equal