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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCNN Opinion: Anti-Trans Republicans Don't Give a Damn About Women's Sports
Snip
The proclamation builds on a nationwide campaign against trans women competing in sports. That campaign has required a number of conservatives to do a 180 on womens sports. Long a subject of derision and defunding by many on the right, now these sports have become sacrosanct.
That about-face comes not because conservatives have discovered the value of womens athletics, but because they have discovered its value in the broader field of anti-trans politics and the culture wars fueled by those politics. Though the new legislation comes with names like the Fairness in Womens Sports Act DeSantis signed, the goal has nothing to do with securing equal resources, opportunity or pay for women athletes issues the right has objected to for decades.
Snip
In the years that followed in the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s (before DeSantis, now in his early 40s, was on the scene), Title IX became a focal point for conservatives who felt that equal opportunity protections for women athletes, rather than being a cause of celebration, was in fact robbing men of their opportunities. The pages of conservative magazines like National Review were full of articles attacking the law as an affirmative action program that harmed male athletes. As Kathryn Jean Lopez wrote for National Review in 2002, in a review of the anti-Title IX book Tilting the Playing Field, Title IX
leads to a clearly unjust result. Women today have the upper hand in just about every area of education except sports, so feminists are now demanding special privileges in that area as well.
Snip
Yet these arguments have not led to calls for, say, more protections from predatory male coaches and doctors, or more funding for womens athletics programs. Rather, it has offered only one solution: purging trans women from athletic competitions. Once theyve done that, there will be nothing to stop them from returning to long-standing attacks on Title IX, leaving women athletes both cisgender and trans behind.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/25/opinions/ron-desantis-lia-thomas-title-ix-women-sports-hemmer/index.html?msclkid=bac761b3acaa11ecb0193b4f0fc00d3b
I am so happy Nicole Hemmer wrote this opinion piece. This piece touches on many of the points I have been thinking about since Republicans started making a big deal about Lia Thomas winning the 500 yard freestyle race at an NCAA Championship. Since the Republican reaction to Lia Thomas, I have been thinking about what Republicans were saying about women's sports in the 90s. I remember Republicans attacking Title IX and women's sports by claiming they took opportunities from male athletes. I also agree with Hemmer's last sentence which states, "Once they've done that, there will be nothing to stop them from returning to long-standing attacks on Title IX, leaving women athletes - both cisgender and trans - behind".
Walleye
(30,573 posts)Solly Mack
(90,730 posts)Sur Zobra
(3,428 posts)the altar of political correctness? Lia Thomas is the essence of male privilege
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Calling her the essence of male privilege is transphobic as hell
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,094 posts)obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)she is a she dammit.
EVERY thread about this, or Rowling devolves to this shit.
on edit: how the hell did this survive a jury?! Shameful.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)It's not going to stop any other way. In the last six months or so, since the "Handful of DUers" post, it's only gotten worse. Every sports/Lia Thomas thread turns into a circular firing squad. She's now being used as a bludgeon the trans community over other trans-related issues. And I have to sat back and see trans people misgendered like reply #3 ("essence of male privilege"? How bigoted can one get!?)..
Or posts about biology...
Or claims that doctors are trying to convert cis people into trans people...
Or stuff like "41% is a lie"...
And yeah.. Saw the same shit with the Rowling threads last week too. I'm sure it'd be more of the same over Chappelle, but, he's crawled into a hole and is hiding and isn't being brought up lately.
I'm sorry, but, "To the handful of DUers" isn't gonna cut it. It's time for action to put a stop to the bigotry around here.
Ohhh... And I alerted on this today to the admins. So this survived a jury (probably 0-7 the way things seem to be lately) and an alert to the admins. But, I know... I know.. I'm supposed to keep calm and be civil.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Shouldn't even have to go to a jury.
Just bring it to the attention of the MIRT
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)And it sounds like at least one person alerted to a jury. Post is still there, and now the person who posted it is doubling down with "chromosomes" and all that crap.
You're right, though... Stuff like that should just be removed. Juries have shown they are willing to let such bigotry slide, sadly.
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)12 hours later, it's still here.
Everything you said is truth.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Both for alerting on it as well as well as you're support and kind words
So we're now up to 24 hours with the first bigoted post from Sur Zobra/rusty fender still standing.. She's since made more. And yet they're still here.
I'm fully expecting the one I just alerted on a few moments ago (which was a personal attack, along with bigotry) being upheld 0-7.
It's starting to feel like they can just do whatever they please. All the naked telephone pole screaming and "Handful of DUers" stuff hasn't changed a thing - unless by "change" you mean that the bigots have now doubled-down.
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)EarlG needs to step in.
Again.
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)Elessar Zappa
(13,574 posts)Its despicable and Earl G should step in and ban posters who in engage in such bigotry.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I don't count on him doing so, though. All the while, it's getting worse.
It's also painful obvious the jury system cannot handle bigotry. But, damn, are they ever good at nailing me when I scream back at hatred.
FreeState
(10,546 posts)Weve been begging for years for them to do something too. day has a transphobia problem.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Or are you trying to block discussion?
Do you think it transphobic to even question, even discuss, whether trans women should be able to compete in sports against (proper name for women who are not trans).
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)and even questioning it is transphobic.
Duncan Grant
(8,256 posts)Keep in mind, youre not arguing about the altar of political correctness (whatever the f*ck that is
). Your responsibility is to put up or shut up regarding that sentence about privilege.
Ill wait.
Sur Zobra
(3,428 posts)Im a lesbian. Im not transphobic. Look at the science: you cannot turn xy to xx via surgery or hormone replacements. Trans people will always be in different categories than biological women and men. Thats a fact. Do trans people have the right to become, via surgery/hormononal shots, who they aspire to become? Absolutely!
However, when it comes to sports former men should not be competing against biological women. It is so fundamentally unfair to women; those who believe such competition is fair, then you show your contempt and hatred of women.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Calling a trans woman "male" is bigotry.
Spewing right-wing chromosome shit is bigotry.
You are a bigot. Hence lambasted... and alerted.
Sur Zobra
(3,428 posts)Right-wing chromosome shit? It is a biological fact that estrogen and surgery cannot alter your chromosomes. It is true that estrogen/testosterone, when ingested can enhance physical characteristics associated with their properties, i.e., a male who takes estrogen will exhibit feminine characteristics, but hormones wont magically change ones chromosomesthat is a biological fact.
Again, its totally okay for men to become more feminine and for women to become more masculine. That isnt the problem. The problem arises when, in order order to accommodate feminized males competitive sports aspirations, we shit on womens rights to fair competition.
Calling me a bigot is is a personal attack on me. Irony is lost on you
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Every response you have made in this thread has been a personal attack upon the trans members here. So spare me the right-wing nonsense of attacking people, then when you get pushback, you play the victim card. Spare me.
Spare me talk about fair play too. There's nothing fair about you. You're a blatant TERF. From your directed attack upon Lia Thomas, to now running your mouth about chromosomes, you are nothing but a transphobic bigot.
You want respect, while responding with hate. You want to attack others, then cry that it's personal attacks when called out for your bigotry. No deal.
Alert me for personal attacks, then! And while you're at it: Enough about chromosomes! https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127
treestar
(82,383 posts)What point are you making? That the sports competition should be allowed? Are you trying to shut down anyone suggesting maybe not?
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)When I call out someone calling a trans woman "the essence of male privilege"? Would it be okay if they had used a derogatory term for women? Or a person of color? They misgendered a trans woman.
What kind of discussion do you want? And where do we draw the line? What's fair game? How about we go and debate what Al Campanis infamous said on Nightline 35 years ago? How about Keith Hernandez saying "women don't belong in the dugout"? Hey, it's just a discussion.... right?
No. It wouldn't be. It'd be discrimination.
And, no. I am not going to debate my rights with you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)without stating that sports competition should allow for no difference.
Nor justifying why there should be no discussion at all. If we're not allowed to discuss or even think about it here, ask for a thread lock.
treestar
(82,383 posts)of any issue regarding the differences between women and former men? A transwoman is completely a woman, no more discussion allowed. Transwomen should be allowed to compete in sports with biological women (or is that term transphobic?)
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Bigotry
noun
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
treestar
(82,383 posts)sports competition. Are you not willing to take the position that you think there should be no difference in sports?
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)What you are doing is bordering on harassment at this point.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Interesting.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I've said my peace in this thread. You want my response so bad? Read this thread. I've already said all I'm going to say to you, especially if you're so hell-bent on protecting a transphobic slur from another member.
I've also said at this point I'm feeling harassed. This is turning into harassment. This also reinforces something I've said more than once here: That many of you don't want to talk to us. You want to talk down on us, gang up on us, and make us feel uncomfortable. You start by blowing off slurs aimed at the trans community while questioning me, and saying my response is "bullshit". No. Just no.
Kindly leave me alone.
On edit: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)EVERYTHING YOU WRITE IS AGAINST TOS
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I'm just shocked it was 0-7.
Don't worry, though. I fully expect the TERF to alert on my reply and that will get removed.
Maybe they should rename this place to Democraic Underground - no more T's.
Response to IngridsLittleAngel (Reply #44)
obamanut2012 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Torchlight
(3,205 posts)It was very eye-opening to me, answered questions I didn't know I had, and even illustrated thread participants in ways I doubt they quite expected.
I hope it assists your confusion.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Assuming she even reads it. She has a long history of transphobic posts, under at least two names. She's not confused, she's just a hate-filled bigot.
Torchlight
(3,205 posts)Though I'll never understand the desire of any adult to actually find and take time to troll message boards, which I guess is the equivalent of me wanting to understand the psyche of bullies or what it's like to have canker sores.
Response to IngridsLittleAngel (Reply #47)
Post removed
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)And I am tired of your bigotry and personal attacks! LEAVE US ALONE!
Oneironaut
(5,449 posts)I have a thick skin, but, seeing transphobic shit here is harder because its everywhere else on the internet. Everywhere I go on Facebook has transphobes spouting the same garbage. Even transgender subreddits are constantly invaded by transphobes.
I second your notion. LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE!
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)There's so much transphobia elsewhere on the internet. Hell, I've even witnessed it in charity events. Reddit? Reddit is so toxic in general that the only subreddit I even come within 50 miles of is the Commodore 64 one. Every other one I've seen has been beyond vile.
You turn on the mainstream news, and everyday there is so vile new update from a red state attacking us, while the talking heads treat this like so sort of debate topic where "both sides are right/both sides are wrong". Fux, of course, just attacks us 24/7, thinking we're worse than Satan, OJ Simpson and Bill Gates combined.
So, yeah... It stings even more when it happens here too. Makes you want to pull your hair and scream "Is anywhere safe?!"
treestar
(82,383 posts)Since no one is allowed to discuss sports competition questions on the matter here?
Torchlight
(3,205 posts)I don't have the wisdom or experience to understand everyone's blind-spots, only mine.
Ms. Toad
(33,896 posts)A specific woman (Lia Thomas) is.
Here is where her time would have placed her in each of the last 10 NCAA 500 Freestyle Championships:
2022- 1st
2021 - 2nd
2019 - 3rd
2018 - 2nd
2017 - 3rd
2016 - 3rd
2015 - 2nd
2014 - 3rd
2013 - 1st
2012 - 1st
The second place winner (which others, who think like you, believe was robbed) would not have placed 1st, ever, in the last 10 meets, would have placed 2nd in only 3 of them (including the meet against Lia Thomas), would have placed 3rd in two others, and would not have been in the top 3 in the remaning 4 races.
2022- 2nd
2021 - 2nd
2019 - 3rd
2018 - 3rd
2017 - 3rd
2016 - Not top 3
2015 - Not top 3
2014 - Not top 3
2013 - Not top 3
2012 - 2nd
So where is this magical advantage, which robbed Emma Weant of her top place finish? Did Paige Madden, Brooke Forde, Katie Ledecky, Lea Smith, Brittany MacLean, and Haley Anderson also have this magic?
You're being played by right wing forces will be using this issue to drive conservative voters to the polls to vote for ballot issues drummed up to cement discrimination against trans individuals. These same forces know the left is not united on this issue, so they know that our politicians will be unable to effectively counter the transhostility being spewed by the right (and echoed by far too many on the left) - just as they did in 2004 when my marriage was used by the right to elect George Bush.
If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. And don't think our trans friends aren't learning exactly what those on the left really think of them. To paraphrase my high school sweetheart: The unthinking transphobia and reflexive contempt from those who claim to be our friends stingmore than any cruelty the right has devised.
hunter
(38,240 posts)You are exactly right, it's "being played by right wing forces" who are using this issue to "drive conservative voters to the polls to vote for ballot issues drummed up to cement discrimination against trans individuals."
Elessar Zappa
(13,574 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,338 posts)Transgender women have no *Male* privilege. We do not identify as men, nor do we want to be seen as men, nor do we want (or get) any "privilege" afforded to men.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)It's usually retold as here through conservative opposition to Title IX. That's fair enough, and grounded in policy.
But in the ordinary world, where people are parents, there is mammoth investment (emotional, economic, resources-wise, etc.) in girls and womens sports across the political spectrum.
You mean to tell me that the people who pack girls basketball, soccer, field hockey, and softball games in every park in this country every weekend are all liberals? It's a completely silly position to take. Are we supposed to be saying that there are no conservatives among those celebrating their daughter's announcements committing to this or that college sports team this time every year? Do people see the girls teams in hotels with their parents, traveling for tournaments? Do people see how much it costs for a girl to play club soccer, yet tens of thousands do around this country every year? And we're supposed to believe none of those parents is conservative? Ridiculous. It's a dishonest argument. There is massive interest and investment in girls and womens sports, and, to be honest, pretty much anyone who is a parent of a girl knows it.
I do wonder when I see "Oh, now you care about womens sports?" asked sarcastically on Twitter or various message boards whether the questioner 1) has any children, 2) has any girls, 3) has any fucking idea how much people actually do care about girls and women's sports in this country. Usually, when the answer to 1 and 2 is no, the answer to 3 is also no. Just saying.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)They don't fucking care about women's sprots.... They would defund women's sports and give the money to the footbaw and basketball teams if they could.. Time and time again, they've bitched about Title IX and "wasting" money on women's sports...
They don't care about women, period!
They are just using this as another weapon to attack the trans community.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)We have to argue about title 9 and a bunch of weedy shit. They get to say we want men to play women's sports.
Think whatever you want about that, but a lot of people will agree with it and we'll lose.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2022, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)
It's just a few spoiled transgenders wanting ponies anyway. More important to protect the masses than such a small minority.
Ms. Toad
(33,896 posts)IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Duncan Grant
(8,256 posts)Theyre criminalizing trans kids and their parents. Dehumanizing (othering) them like every fascist movement in history. Next theyre coming after gay marriage, visitation rights, wills and property, etc. Who knows whos next?
Seriously, checkout: https://transgenderlegal.org/
You can learn to make an affirmative argument for trans people and their lives.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)When they parade the girl that didn't win because she was having to compete against somebody who had been a man 2 years earlier. Or the girl that didn't get a scholarship because they gave it to that same person.
You're picking favorites and a lot of people aren't going to agree that it's fair. In this political climate it knight well be the issue that puts Trump back in the white house.l or maybe worse gets DeSantis elected instead. Remember this conversation at that point.
Duncan Grant
(8,256 posts)Id rather be on the record defending/promoting trans kids and their families than cower before these pricks. Its no different, in my mind, than the gay (equal) marriage cowardice I saw here in 2007 - 2008. I guess were all clear whos being thrown overboard this midterm.
Torchlight
(3,205 posts)Fighting it would message poorly. Fighting it would cost the mid-terms. Fighting it is picking favorites. Fighting it would reduce public approval of Democratic leadership.
The law was quickly repealed, and a lot of anti-trans bigots quickly forgot the ordeal for the sake of their own moral convenience.
I remember that conversation at this point.
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)wtaf -- why is this post HERE.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)They don't get that this is blatant bigotry.
They don't get that they're playing right into the right's hands on this shit - over and over... Lia Thomas is just the latest issue to throw a tantrum over.
They don't get that the QOP has made a list. If you're not white, straight, cisgender and conservative, you're on the list. Where on the list? I don't know. All I know is they have started at the top of the list, which is the trans community. But anyone who doesn't fit their narrow view of what a "real person is" is on the list. Gay, bi, non-white, immigrant, liberal, female, you name it.
This is the 2022 version of "First they came..." "First they came for the transgender, and I did not speak out..." And those who are gladly feeding the trans community to the cheetahs don't get that once they're done with us, they'll going after another group. And another. And another.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
gulliver
(13,142 posts)The NCAA was negligent to let Lia Thomas compete in women's athletic events without scientific proof that she lacks an unfair advantage conferred by going through puberty as a male. Thomas doesn't have to prove she's a woman (she is). Science has to prove she doesn't have an unfair advantage over other women.
Republicans have a history of slighting and neglecting women's sports. So why would we hand women's sports to Republicans? That would be unjust.
vercetti2021
(10,146 posts)Trans are another scapegoat while also saying fuck these bitches trying to have a fair shot at sports. Hence title IX. They attack trans using women's sports to say. OH LOOK AT US! We support all WOMENZ!!! while they cross their fingers and say HAHA not really. We just need to attack trans women once again
Behind the Aegis
(53,789 posts)The ONLY time they "care" about women is when there is a perceived threat to (some) WHITE women. Notice how almost ALL anti-trans panic is about transwomen? It is because they, like, sadly, too many on the left, do not see transwomen as women! But, hey, at least they have their quisling in Catilyn Jenner.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)Starts winning NCAA championships against men.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,789 posts)obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)Which I won;t even alert on, because you transphobes are allowed to do whatever the hell you want on here now.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I can't say exactly what I feel about some of the posts here... It'd get me removed, no question. But it sure does seem the bigots can do whatever the hell they want around here.
I don't know the hell the admins want at this point. Alerting is useless - unless it's alerting on us for fighting back against bigotry. It's obvious we were handed a bunch of empty, pretty words back in October. No one is doing a thing to stop this, and it's only getting worse. Threads only seem to be locked when enough of us who stand up to bigotry get our posts removed by juries. Otherwise, it's the wild west here on trans issues.
If things continue like this, there's either going to be a purge or a massive showdown. I know which of the two I'm predicting.
But, you are exactly right. The transphobes can do whatever the hell they want - whether it's misgendering us, lecturing us about chromosomes, attacking us, or even advocating "tagging" a comedian because he went too far. At the rate shit is going, I give it about 2 weeks until it's okay to threaten to "tag" trans people.
This place is rapidly becoming a lost cause.
Dr. Strange
(25,896 posts)Even if that were to happen, nobody would care. (Cis) men have gotten plenty of advantages with regards to sports. If that were to be challenged, I don't think people would care as much. Women on the other hand have always had to fight to make their own space, separate from men.
Wounded Bear
(58,362 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,626 posts)years, Title IX has literally been viewed as the same kind of "Kryptonite" that they claim Critical Race Theory is at the present time.
That they're suddenly crying crocodile tears over the ideas of "fair competition" and "a level playing field" would be laughable if it weren't so based in bigotry.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)This isn't about debate. This isn't about discussion. This isn't about elections.
This is about hate. Period. And it's not just an overwhelming percentage of the QOP. It's here, in this thread, in the Democratic party. As bad as the QOP? Not even close. But it's still here.
Some of the very people on this very thread - Sur Zobra, BGBD - and others who shockingly haven't poked their heads into this thread merely hate trans people. It's that simple. They don't give a shit about how it may affect elections. They don't give a shit about women's sports. They don't give a shit about restrooms. They. Just. Fucking. Hate. Trans. People.
And the amount of this shit that is allowed to go on here is beyond deplorable. From repeatedly telling the trans community "no" in the name of fighting some boogeyperson of the week, to treating the trans community like they want "special rights" or "ponies", to misgendering, to getting in the fucking faces of trans people to REPEAT MAJORIE TAYLOR GREENE about "science" and "biology"!
This isn't debate. This isn't discussion. This is open bigotry, disguised by many as using Glenn Beck's "I'm just asking questions" tactic... And in some cases, going right into expressing blatant hatred toward a threatened minority. But push back and, gee... THEY'RE THE VICTIMS.
The response to EarlG's "Handful of DUers" post has been blatant defiance by the bigots. That very post was linked here TWICE in the last 36 hours, and yet an openly anti-trans feminist had the nerve to tell me "I trust the science on vaccines but not on this?" How fucking Qanon can one get?
And, no.. I don't buy it. None of it. Even if the polls said "If you protect LGBTQ rights, you'd still win", THEY'D STILL TARGET US. Because just like Abbott, just like DeSantis, just like Trump - THEY HATE US.
And if not... Great way to build party loyalty. One party says they hate us, the other says "Fuck off, we can't help you." Great way to drive someone into supporting neither party.
Enough is enough!
Torchlight
(3,205 posts)I copied your post and if for any reason it gets blocked (or whatever that's called here), I'll take a block too for reposting it.
If I, the very archetype of cloistered naivete, who knows nothing other than what he's read on this message board about the topic at hand, can see the measured maliciousness you point to, then I have to assume anyone who asserts otherwise is closing their eyes (at best), consciously or not.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)And your support for all of us... Human rights for all
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)And, not having posts hidden.
So much hate here for lgbt and women, especially trans people.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)I imagine many of us are exhausted by all of it. Bad enough seeing all the hate outside of DU... It's not needed here too.
Response to IngridsLittleAngel (Reply #53)
Post removed
obamanut2012
(25,869 posts)that their questions mean they hate you."
"A lot of people are not Jewish, and you are not going to help at all by just informing them that their questions mean they hate you."
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Plus, as Glenn Beck showed us over the years, no... Sometimes a question is not just a question.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Some of the responses that were made here today - with this being Trans Day of Visibility.
Mad_Machine76
(24,338 posts)It's a means to end, specifically attacking Trans people. This and nothing more.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)"Efforts to criminalize supportive medical care for transgender kids, to ban transgender children from playing sports, and to outlaw discussing LGBTQI+ people in schools undermine their humanity and corrode our Nations values." - Joe Biden, 45th president of the United States
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/31/politics/transgender-day-of-visibility-day-biden-administration/index.html
(No. No typo. 45th. This country did not have a president from January 20, 2017 through January 19, 2021.)