After reportedly flunking the bar exam, Ginni fell in with a cultish self-help group, Lifespring...

[kpete]

Jane Mayer:

When Clarence Thomas met Ginni Lamp, in 1986, he was an ambitious Black conservative in charge of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission—and she was even more conservative and better connected than he was. Her father ran a firm that developed housing in and around Omaha, and her parents were Party activists who had formed the backbone of Barry Goldwater’s campaign in Nebraska. The writer Kurt Andersen, who grew up across the street from the family, recalls, “Her parents were the roots of the modern, crazy Republican Party. My parents were Goldwater Republicans, but even they thought the Lamp family was nuts.” Ginni graduated from Creighton University, in Omaha, and then attended law school there. Her parents helped get her a job with a local Republican candidate for Congress, and when he won she followed him to Washington. But, after reportedly flunking the bar exam, she fell in with a cultish self-help group, Lifespring, whose members were encouraged to strip naked and mock one another’s body fat. She eventually broke away, and began working for the Chamber of Commerce, opposing “comparable worth” pay for women. She and Thomas began dating, and in 1987 they married. As a woman clashing with the women’s movement, she had found much in common with Thomas, who opposed causes supported by many Black Americans.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/31/is-ginni-thomas-a-threat-to-the-supreme-court

[LetMyPeopleVote]

1. Who is surprised that Ginni Thomas flunked the bar exam?

[leftieNanner]

15. Not me.

I'm surprised that she only took it once. Lots of people don't pass the first time out.

I'm shocked that her ultra Red parents allowed her to date and then marry a black man.

[3catwoman3]

25. They do seem an unlikely initial...

…matchup, don’t they?

Except for his skin color, Clarence could easily be a white supremacist. I think he identifies as black when it is useful to him.

[Hortensis]

43. He's seemingly a lifelong hardcore conservative black nationalist, views which

are intensely and proudly racist and hostile toward white people. Proposed ways of dealing with their huge white problem differ, but he despises the constitution as unsalvageably white-serving and inimical to black people, He also believes all advances in equality that white people have had anything to do with weaken and harm black people.

He's a mean, hostile, RW extremist nut who sees legal issues through this prism, and he's now the second most powerful justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.

The core of black nationalism begins with a recognition that the destiny of African Americans cannot be accommodated by the American political system — that African Americans have a set of interests and a destiny that lies apart from the overall American experience. ...

One thing to understand about Thomas’s conservatism is that there’s a strong belief in patriarchy. He has said quite plainly that the salvation of the black race depends upon black men. This is one area where his conservatism and black nationalism converge. ...

One of the contradictions you explore in the book is the fact that Thomas is an avowed originalist, someone committed to applying the Constitution as it was adopted in 1789, and yet he acknowledges that that Constitution was written by and for slaveholders. ...

One of the strangest parts of all this is the fact that Thomas has managed to preserve his core black nationalist beliefs on the court while at the same time, as you put it, “remaining a hero to some of the most racist elements of the American polity.” Is this just a case of his supporters not bothering to understand what he actually thinks and why he thinks it? Or do many of them understand it and just don’t care?

I think they haven’t bothered to understand what he thinks. ...

Well, the first thing I’d say is that Thomas’s originalism is pretty inconsistent, but let’s not get into the weeds on that. Here’s why I think originalism is important to Thomas and it’s partly for the reason you just mentioned: He sees it as a kind of permanent reminder of the constraints written into the Constitution under which African Americans have labored for over three centuries.

Thomas sees value in this, and he’s very upfront about it. It would be too strong to say that he would like to rewrite the Constitution as if it were a Jim Crow Constitution, but he really does believe in his heart of hearts that black people, particularly black men, flourished under the heavy yoke of subjugation that was Jim Crow.

And this is where his ideology is pretty straightforwardly conservative: he believes that under the conditions of extreme hardship, the strongest wills have a way of bashing their way through those constraints in order to overcome them, and he thinks this is what the African American community did when it was oppressed by the white majority. ...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/15/20893737/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-corey-robin

For a deeper discussion:

https://bostonreview.net/articles/joshua-cohen-corey-robin-conservative-black-nationalism-clarence-thomas/

[Solomon]

59. Pure utter bullshit!

[Hortensis]

61. Nothing like a well supported position.

What on earth offended you into such a strong reaction? Reading the two lengthy and informative articles from reputable, well regarded sources? The second one is more in depth, of course, and does require some attention to follow.

Perhaps you'd prefer The Atlantic or The New Yorker? The Notre Dame Law School Journal?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/deconstructing-clarence-thomas/594775/
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/essay/clarence-thomass-radical-vision-of-race
https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1547&context=law_faculty_scholarship

[wnylib]

28. Not sure, but I don't think that

Goldwater Republicans were overtly racist. Their conservative views hurt equal rights legislation, but since Thomas is also a conservative who opposed civil rights legislation, her parents might have seen him as "acceptable." OTOH, wasn't she old enough to make her own choices about whom to marry?

[tblue37]

26. Many people do. Even Hillary Clinton did the first time.

[live love laugh]

45. She's a wannabe.

[Carlitos Brigante]

2. Wait? Her name is "Ginni Lamp"?!

[Pinback]

10. Original spelling: "Djinni."

After the recently renewed controversy over the pronunciation of gif, that’s all I’ve got to say on the subject.

[erronis]

29. Clarence must have rubbed her the right way...

[Pinback]

48. *snort*

[Boydog]

51. There was a lot there to rub

[Qutzupalotl]

12. She'll grant you three wishes, provided they're all for a fascist autocracy.

[SouthBayDem]

18. Her real name is Virginia nt

[tblue37]

27. But the connection between Ginni (djinni) and lamp is amusing.

[Carlitos Brigante]

44. I get that. But still...... nt

[wnylib]

30. LOL. Thanks for pointing that out.

It is hilarious.

[Achilleaze]

35. "You rubbed?" - KGOP Genie

[mopinko]

3. made for each other.

interlocking psychosis. bless their hearts.

[Doc Sportello]

4. Ahhh, Lifespring

One of several demented descendants of one of the first LGATs (large-group awareness training), EST. They are what's known as mass psychology cookie cutter approaches to self-improvement but are basically con jobs that made their owners millionaires with no science-based proof that they do anything but make money. They tend to do well with gullible people, which Ginni seems to be carrying on as a GQP conspiracist. From a family of nuts to a psychology cult to a conspiracy nut. She is fucked up and so is her husband.

[UpInArms]

7. Sounds like they both are

self loathing pieces of excrement

[mitch96]

13. I went to a few EST seminars.. total scam. They just wanted you to keep taking their $2000

"retreats" to "advance" your training and awareness. LIke I said a total scam. They just wanted your money... In retrospect is sounds like someting TFG would cook up...
m

[smirkymonkey]

16. So did I. My very respectable boss talked me into it and actually paid for it.

I immediately knew it was a scam and hated every second of it. The people were so smarmy and phony. I actually can't believe he fell for it.

They basically stalked me trying to get me to do other "seminars" and to drag my friends into it. It was nothing short of harassment. I'm only glad I did it so that I can give a first-hand opinion of what it was like.

[mitch96]

41. "They basically stalked me ".. same here. the only way I got rid of them was to act stupid

I just kept on saying "I don't understand, can you explain it differently?" and "I don't get it" and they got exasperated and quit..
m

[leftieNanner]

17. I used to sing in a chorus with EST founder's ex wife

She was a hoot! And she told us that Erhard was a crazy con man.

My husband dated an Estie (briefly) and he said it was BS.

[fierywoman]

20. I went to one session but didn't return for the following day(s).

They called me at home, saying I'd agreed to do it so I should.I said I changed my mind. They eventually handed me over to a higher up. Said "everybody" thought it was great --I said, so did the Nazis, doesn't make it right. Then they gave up and left me alone. A few months later they sent me stuff about: "as a graduate of -- with it's 98% success rate --" I said I'm not a graduate and your success rate is obviously bogus." They actually refunded my original payment!

[Doc Sportello]

33. Unfortunately I had some friends who got involved with another one

Called PSI, another one founded by EST trainers and who are now rich. My very intelligent, decent friends ended up sitting at booths for free trying to recruit new members and of course tried to recruit their friends. From what I've read most of these LGAT techniques were originally taken from mass psychology training doled out by the military in WWII. L. Ron Hubbard also used them in his Scientology scam.

[OMGWTF]

22. I was briefly engaged to a jerk that went through Lifespring training.

He was so charming and attentive at first, but then became a total narcissist and misogynist when we became engaged. When I broke up with him, I asked why he was so mean to me and his answer was, "I thought you were more assertive" making it MY fault for all of the fked-up mind games he put me through while alienating me from my family and friends.

[erronis]

31. Wow, Some guy that complains because his fiancee is not more assertive?

Pile that on top of the other mixed-up projections that EST and Lifespring embodies.

[Doc Sportello]

36. Sounds like he learned well from Lifespring

They do a lot of breaking down by criticizing the newbie, then build them back up with things like overcoming fears such as using high zip lines. The ones who really get into it use the same effed up techniques on those close to them to draw them in and away from their family. Sorry you went through that but at least you were strong enough not to fall for it.

[mitch96]

42. "his answer was, "I thought you were more assertive"... Ahhh classic gaslighting...RUN!! nt

[agingdem]

5. Clarence more than likely will not resign but

I want Ginni’s life under a microscope, I want every decision/opinion Clarence rendered scrutinized and questioned…I want Clarence to feel the pain of his wife’s betrayal because this is his legacy and his immortality…

[KS Toronado]

23. I'm with you!

[Boydog]

52. Good post. Totally agree.

[2naSalit]

55. +1

[Paladin]

6. No surprise she's been a toxic, ignorant force for so long.

She and Clarence Thomas deserve one another. There ought to be significant legal penalties for her work on the Jan.6 coup attempt. And Clarence Thomas needs to retire, preferably this afternoon.

[Boomerproud]

8. Nothing will happen to either of them. This is why I'm not a

"joiner" of these groupthink people.

[Cracklin Charlie]

9. Was it the incomparable Madeline Albright who said...

Something like

“There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t support other women”?

[Hugin]

11. "... encouraged to strip naked and mock one another's body fat."

So much potential. A gold mine for the likes of moi.

I’m not going to touch it. As, it is obviously the work of a higher power I can’t possibly understand.

So, beautiful.

[Baitball Blogger]

14. Sick power couple.

How many people in the conservative movement realize how demented their leaders are? In Orlando, one of the people driving the crazy land philosophy that was rampant in Central Florida during the nineties turned out to be a huffer.

You have to add something like that to the formula, because these factors affect their judgement.

[GregGilman]

19. That New Yorker article is a MUST READ!

Big kudos to the New Yorker for that article. Yes, it's super long -- but deeply researched and absolutely shocking. A MUST READ!

[erronis]

32. Anything from Jane Meyer is worth the read. And welcome to DU!

I'm still a newbie and appreciate the newerbies.

[Hortensis]

49. Second you and erronis, including the welcome to DU. :)

[Cozmo]

21. THIS is frightening. All these fascist clowns with all this power. It's sick and they gotta go!

[dameatball]

37. Odd that I have never heard that saying, but it makes sense.

[erronis]

34. A long-ago piece from WaPo on Thomas during his SCOTUS hearings - Lifespring and Scientology

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/lifespring/main.htm

She's just really a messed up person. And probably very easily coerced into influencing her husband to follow some outside wishes.

[Hortensis]

53. Interesting, thanks. Regarding Clarence's supposed colorblindness,

though, studies of his writings, speeches, and behaviors suggest that this article's comments about what marriage to a white woman indicates got it all wrong when they bought any comments about the virtues of being color blind. He's a hard-core RW racist, black male version with paternalistic black nationalist views, believing black men have to save the black race from white. He advocates intense, life-forming color awareness, not colorblindness.

Why he married her? Guessing these nasty people really do have a whole lot in common anyway, and I'm also guessing he wasn't exactly popular with black women around the time he and Ginni discovered they were kindred souls while opposing affirmative action.

[MarcA]

38. Clarence learned his lesson working those fields as a youth.

Not the Egalitarian Lesson but the I-am-going-to-sell-myself-to-be-
part-of-the-ruling-class lesson. I got mine, you get yours. A perfect
candidate for the Oligarchs who support and advance his ilk. Both are
self loathing but she doesn't control herself as well as he.

[gulliver]

39. Good article, but we keep getting distracted by the freak show.

Who cares if Ginni Thomas is sincere in her wacko-ness? Where's all their money coming from? As with Trump, we keep getting lost in the misdirection. We get outraged, roll our eyes, heave a big sigh of exasperation. And that money just keeps on flowing.

[Joinfortmill]

46. Amazingly bad luck for our country that these two found each other.

[Mr.Bill]

47. I've known a few Lifesprings people.

They're all nuts.

[MurrayDelph]

58. In the early 80's

Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2022, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

a woman I'd dated a couple of times called and said she had a thing she wanted to show me. I asked if it was "a religious thing" (the way she said it sounded too much like the time in high school when I was dragged to a "Synanon game" ) and she denied it.
L
She lied; it was a Lifespring pitch meeting at the Sheraton Universal. Registration gave out two different color-coded nametags: Red for members, Green for targets.

As I sat through the sales portion of the presentation, my thought was "This is the Schick Center for the Control of Thought!"

After the sales portion, the crowd broke into informal mix-and-mingle, which is where they really tried to get you to sign up. I spent a short amount of time talking to a pretty young woman wearing a red nametag, who somehow was disappointed when my response to her "Are you going to sign up? I can see you're interested" was "No, just because I find you interesting doesn't mean I'm interested in this place."

Once she was could see I wasn't biting, she left so that they could send a guy in a red nametag (in case she was barking up the wrong tree. She was, but not in that way).

As soon as I could extricate myself from the ballroom, I did. On the way out, I noticed the registration table was unmanned. One of the benefits of having a very distinctive handwriting was I was able to find my registration card and take it home with me.

I never dated that woman again.

[BobTheSubgenius]

50. Lifespring was nuts, but I never heard of the fat-shaming.

A couple of non-close friends were into it, back about 1978, and descriptions of it came to me from closer friends that were being unsuccessfully recruited. One actually went to a "meeting" (? don't know what they called them) and was pretty amazed.

EVERYTHING negative that happened to you was YOUR fault, sometimes in undefinable ways. One neophyte asked if her daughter's birth defect was HER fault, and the answer was "Of course." She was devastated and left, sobbing.

That was all I needed to hear.

[tanyev]

54. I'm starting to think Clarence got picked for the SC because he was Ginni's husband.

”she was even more conservative and better connected than he was”

[TeamProg]

56. A couple who LOVES to HATE n/t

[3catwoman3]

57. Did she pass the bar at some point? When I googled her, she...

…is described as “an American attorney.”

[Hekate]

60. It figures, on some warped level that they would meet and marry

[ymetca]

62. The whole modus operandi

of the "conservative" side appears to be a mesh of multi-level marketing schemes. Everybody's in on it to the point that they have become true believers in their own b.s.

King of the Hill for grown-ups, played on a pyramid with an all-seeing eye atop.

Or, what Jesus taught his Disciples in secret: BINGO! (aka fundraising)

[ck4829]

63. The "Not wanting to get shot in school makes you a Marxist" lady

AKA Ginni Thomas.

[Mike Nelson]

64. Yikes!

... can't wait for the movie version of their life! The scene where they strip naked and mock each other's body fat will have to be tastefully done.

[Demovictory9]

65. they are both effing nuts