What should NATO do (re: Ukraine)?

[ColinC]

28 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	They should provide less support to Ukraine.
	0 (0%)
	They should continue to provide the same amount of support to Ukraine
	0 (0%)
	They should provide more material support limited to non jets.
	4 (14%)
	They should provide more material support including jets.
	15 (54%)
	They should enforce a no fly zone and potentially shoot down Russian jets.
	3 (11%)
	They should immediately bring Ukraine into NATO and issue an ultimatum to Russia to leave
	1 (4%)
	Something else
	3 (11%)
	"boots on the ground"
	2 (7%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[lapfog_1]

1. We need a 007 to save the world.

[Ocelot II]

2. I don't know.

[ColinC]

3. Understandable. Although it does appear that "do more"

Is so far resoundingly in the lead.

[smirkymonkey]

6. I'm with you.

I have no idea. But more support in some way would be a good idea. Including food and other necessities for those who are unable to get out of the country.

[BGBD]

4. Making decisions without all of the information

Is dumb.

The WH and Pentagon are making these decisions with a lot more in mind than anyone here. Maybe just trust them.

[ColinC]

5. If people in power with all the information making decisions was best

...Iraq would have been the best decision of all!

[BGBD]

8. Biden is George Bush?

Cool.

[ColinC]

9. No. But the logical fallacy of "they do what's best because they have information we don't have"

Often gets us into more problems than it helps.

[Kaleva]

14. But the question is specific to the Biden Administration

Nobody here would make such an argument if TFG was in the WH.

I think you'd agree that the Biden and his team can be trusted to make the best possible choice based on the info they have.

[ColinC]

16. If the Biden admin is to be believed (and there is no reason they shouldn't)

Then their reasoning is not based on information they have vs what we don't have. Their reasoning is based on the fear that any help beyond a certain point will provoke Putin into starting nuclear war. Meanwhile, NATO stands by as an entire city is starving to death and chemical weapons have been deployed because they are afraid that helping Ukraine defend itself will get Putin to nuke us. Nobody is arguing it is much more complicated than this and we are allowing a malevolent dictator to use the fact he has nukes to keep us from doing the right thing.

[Kaleva]

17. Do you or do you not trust Biden to make the best possible choice?

[ColinC]

18. I only hope he will.

[Kaleva]

21. I trust him

[qazplm135]

23. I trust him to do his best

That doesn't always equate to the best outcome.

I don't blindly follow anyone.

[Kaleva]

26. Which D President in the past did u stop following?

Or did you continue to follow them regardless of what they decided and the outcome?

[qazplm135]

27. Moving the goalposts I see

You want blind obedience. Loyalty doesn't require that. The most loyal admit their leaders aren't always perfect but know that they are trying their best to find the right path, even as they sometimes fail. They are even willing to point out when a course of action is suboptimal.

The blindly loyal think their leaders cannot fail in always picking the best possible course of action.

[ColinC]

28. +1

Well said, thank you!!

[Kaleva]

29. So you continue to be loyal regardless of the outcome?

You will stick with our party leaders no matter what?

You say you are different but your behavior is exactly the same as mine and most everyone else's here.

It doesn't matter to you or me if Biden is successful regarding Ukraine or not. We both will continue to follow him

You didn't answer the question and I'll assume you remained loyal to and followed Carter, Clinton and Obama through thick and thin.

[qazplm135]

30. no matter what?

No, I don't stick with anyone "no matter what."

This is now officially a silly conversation and there's no point in continuing it.

[Calculating]

7. Give them the Jets and more drones

...

[Crunchy Frog]

10. Whatever material support is necessary for Ukraine to finish the job.

[qazplm135]

11. Unpopular opinion but

I would establish a NATO safe zone in western Ukraine. Polish and other troops in Lviv, Ivano-frankivst, maybe even Odessa. No direct engagement in the fighting but make it clear there's going to be a safe part of Ukraine for those who want to leave to go without having to leave the whole country.

Would also dissuade Belarus and free up Ukrainian forces.

[ColinC]

12. You got my vote

It would likely save thousands of lives as well.

[Pantagruel]

13. Boots on the ground

Send a few crack Nato armored divisions to the Polish/Ukrainian borders. See if their presence induces a response.

[Kaleva]

15. It's easy to make a choice when not responsible for the outcome.

[ColinC]

19. We are all responsible for the outcome

And will likely face the fallout regardless of what decision is made.

[Kaleva]

20. We won't be held responsible

It won't be us signing letters to grieving widows or parents or laying awake at night thinking of all the dead we caused by how we voted on an Internet poll at DU.

But we will face the fallout, good or bad, by what Biden decides.

[ColinC]

22. I think a nuke falling on us qualifies pretty well as "held responsible"

Or if us or our children are drafted due to a world war. There are many ways we can and will be held responsible for a bad decision besides elected officials being taken to the presses for it.

[Tomconroy]

24. We have given Ukraine the weapons to prevent them from

losing the war. It's time to give them the weapons to win the war, at the very least.

[Locutusofborg]

25. Countries currently supplying military aid to Ukraine

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, [European Union], Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, North Macedonia, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, United Kingdom, and United States.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/22/ukraine-weapons-military-aid-00019104