This is wrong!

[sheshe2]

Sorry.

I have a different view than some here about Will, Jada and Chris. Chris was out of line, way out of line. Will did not handle it well. Shame on Chris for thinking this was funny.

However this is about a woman, Jada, that lost her hair due to alopecia as did Rep Ayanna Pressley. A woman's hair is important to them, they can't pull off baldness like a Yul Brenner can. It is a stigma and a source of ridicule for a woman. Women are mocked and ridiculed for their looks all the time, never mind being bald. Are we going to mock women cancer patients next? Under Chemo they lose their hair and may be dying. Shall we point at them and laugh.

My niece at 2 plus years had a bad fall and surgery and a scar. Her head was shaved. When my sister took her to the market people stared and kids pointed and laughed. She went home in tears. From that time on my sister put a hat on her so she was no longer laughed at and ridiculed.

This story is about Jada and women like her, the stigma that women go through everyday about their perceived looks by a society that decides what beauty and perfection is.

Knock it off!

[tinrobot]

1. Will had every right to be upset. But physical violence is an unacceptable response.

[sheshe2]

3. Agree.

Yet my post is about Jada and women like her and not about Will.

This is about the gut punch women feel when they are mocked, laughed at for their looks.

[NullTuples]

65. What Chris did was also violence

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

77. Words/jokes are not equivalent to physical violence

And unfortunately incidents like this can be seen as a result of some who are trying to push the idea that words are no different than physical violence. The answer to speech is ALWAYS more speech.

Rock would have gotten jeered and lambasted in the press for a joke done in poor taste, but now the reaction is going to be all that is covered.

Good to know the Oscars have WWE level security. If that happened to a comedian in any nightclub, the assaulter would be facing charges for battery, but there are always different rules for celebrities even when the crime is broadcast live on TV.

[old as dirt]

100. It is not impossible that the WWE similarities go further than just security..

Good to know the Oscars have WWE level security. If that happened to a comedian in any nightclub, the assaulter would be facing charges for battery, but there are always different rules for celebrities even when the crime is broadcast live on TV.

It is very weird that he was not immediately and quietly escorted out of the auditorium. Somebody could have easily accepted his later award for him.

[arthritisR_US]

76. Chris did extreme violence with his words, Will was

exorcising righteous outrage. Is Chris going to start taking cheep shots at women who have had breast cancer and had to have mastectomies?

[tinrobot]

111. Will also has words. He could have used them instead of a fist.

Still no excuse for what he did.

[Srkdqltr]

2. The whole episode was badly handled. I don't understand mocking people at all.

[flying_wahini]

4. Jada didn't look bald, she looked like she had a buzz cut, which is why Rock made the crack about GI

Was Chris Rock supposed to know by looking at her? Was it big news? Who would know that?

Besides; who cares if Jada was offended? She’s a big girl and didn’t need a scene on live TV to prove her husband defended her.

[DURHAM D]

13. wow

[Ms. Toad]

15. Highly unlikely he didnt know about it.

She's been public about it.

https://www.prevention.com/health/health-conditions/a38634649/jada-pinkett-smith-hair-loss-journey-alopecia/

My understanding is also that they are friends.

[Nevilledog]

17. Not sure about that, but guessing they aren't friends now.

[Nevilledog]

16. Chris Rock has mocked Jada before for other reasons. I get this was a longer feud.

I wonder what the reaction would be if Jada was the one who slapped him?

[AlexSFCA]

85. that's my girl! that would be the reaction

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

23. The news about Jada Pinkett-Smith's Alopecia

came out LAST SUMMER. Alopecia is a medical condition, for which there is no cure and no real treatment. So, not this is not news and you can bet your pet rock that Chris knew about.

It was a horribly insensitive remark to make at her expense just to get a cheap laugh.

Remember that for Black women, their hair is their C R O W N. A thousand ways to style it. A million ways to glamorize it. So many ways to make it individual. It is NOT just hair. I have known some Black women who went through this and it was devastating to them. The felt like they lost their identity, their femininity, their style, even their beauty, or lost their self-esteem. That is a lot to deal with.
I don't expect everyone to see my point, but I know what I've witnessed and it's heartbreaking.

What we didn't see after they went to commercial, was Denzel and Tyler Perry surrounding Will with hugs and words. Then Denzel went over to hug up on Jada, as she had been crying.

Not knowing the back story about something does not give anyone the right to criticize. Look before you leap. Put yourself in Jada's place. for just a moment. It might help you understand her husband's reaction.

[old as dirt]

51. When my wife's ancestors ran away...

...Black women carried seeds in their hair.

Remember that for Black women, their hair is their C R O W N. A thousand ways to style it. A million ways to glamorize it. So many ways to make it individual. It is NOT just hair.

[Hoyt]

5. Totally agree. My Ladyfriend has a similar condition. But I'm bald as heck and

she looks years better than me, is infinitely a better person, and I’m luckier than I deserve.

I’ll give Rock some consideration in that he might not have realized the situation. Hope he responds accordingly.

[sheshe2]

8. You guys are lucky to have each other.

Hugs to you both.

We will see what Chris has to say, yet not giving him much credit. He said what he said because he thought it was okay. It wasn't.

[Hoyt]

10. I know it, luckier than I ever imagined.

[sheshe2]

19. Lucky man, Hoyt.

[wnylib]

38. He ridiculed a woman in front of the whole world,

not just the American viewers, for a condition that she has no control over and is extremely embarrassing to women. No way that he did not know. It was public knowledge.

I generally do not approve of physical reactions to provocations, but I am sympathetic to Will.

This was like TFG ridiculing a reporter for his disability. Disgustingly poor taste, just for a cheap laugh over something that is not amusing.

[arthritisR_US]

80. Excellent point!

[iemanja]

6. Chris Rock is a comedian

He makes fun of people, and usually far more biting than his joke about Jada. I don't think the violence was called for. Besides, do we really need men getting into fights to protect women? I'm pretty sure Jada can hold her own.

[sheshe2]

9. OMFG! nt

[arthritisR_US]

81. Yep😖

[sheshe2]

83. ...

I just posted...I give up.

[arthritisR_US]

92. People fail to realize the damage his so called "comedic "

“innocent humour “ can have on others. The pain he inflicted on Will’s wife was disgusting. My husband, if he was still alive, would so identify with Will Smith.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

27. Making comments about people's incurable medical conditions is not joking.

It's insensitive, piling on behavior to someone who is struggling to cope.

And Rock knew what he was doing. The news has been out there since last Summer.

[wnylib]

41. Your lack of compassion is duly noted.

[iemanja]

46. and your support of violence

is duly noted.

[sheshe2]

55. Your lack of empathy for Jada?

It is duly noted.

[iemanja]

66. It's unfortunate that you haven't learned

how to disagree with people without being rude. You obviously haven't bothered to read anything that I've said about Jada in your own thread.

I do not agree with your condoning violence as a way to resolve issues. That, I would submit, is among the greatest problems facing our world today.

[sheshe2]

69. Ok

It's unfortunate that you haven't learned
how to disagree with people without being rude.

You are accusing me about being rude? "I haven't learned?" How was I rude?

I do not agree with your promotion of violence as a way to resolve issues. That, I would submit, is among the greatest problems facing our world today.

This is funny. Talk about not reading a thread. Where did I promote violence?

[wnylib]

64. I was speaking about the feelings

of a woman with an extremely embarrassing condition who was callousedly ridiculed on TV for the entire world to see.

I have also posted that I do not condone physical reactions to verbal provocations. But I do understand and sympathize with Will's feelings on seeing his wife's pain over the cheap, not funny remarks by Chris.

[iemanja]

68. Then why are you arguing with me?

My point was that violence wasn't called for, and for that I'm being insulted in this thread.

I think Jada is a strong and confident woman who doesn't need, or likely want, anyone's pity. That is certainly how she comes across on Red Table Talk, where she is always insightful, strong, and self-assured. And she, from appearances, was none too happy with Will's behavior.

Also, Will Smith laughed at the joke when Chris Rock told it. Did you see that?

[wnylib]

71. Will laughed initially, until he saw

that Jada was distressed.

Why am I disagreeing with you? Because your comments sounded coldly indifferent to the feelings of a person being publicly ridiculed on live TV.

I do not feel pity for Jada. I feel compassion and empathy for her. I can get distressed over a bad haircut that I know will grow out. Baldness that has no cure must be 10 times worse.

On another thread, I described what happened to a relative who had all of her hair shaved off for scalp stitches after an accident. The baldness was very traumatic for her.

[old as dirt]

104. That might have been...

...a real good time for him to apologize to his wife and give her a hug.

Will laughed initially, until he saw that Jada was distressed.

[Samrob]

7. Didn't see it. What the hell happened???

Is there a video??? Forgot it was Oscar night.

[sheshe2]

12. Other threads have the vids.

I never watch the Oscars.

[BigmanPigman]

56. Here...

I have zero respect left for anyone who acts violently unless in a war. Smith is a violent ass and should have been arrested. Anyone else would have been. That is assault, plain and simple. If you or I did that we'd be sitting in jail, forced to pay a fine and have to take anger management classes, especially since this wasn't the first time he has used violence. He has a problem and there is no excuse for this behavior. Aren't we supposed to be civilized? They should have taken the Oscar back until he went through therapy. His LOVE, LOVE, LOVE acceptance speech was pure, 100% BS. I have no respect for him and I hope his career is ruined. It should be!

[NoRethugFriends]

11. Aaaaa, bull

Chris Rock is a comedian. He makes jokes.
Just some stupid toxic masculinity from Will Smith. Then he goes blabbering on about god and love and peace, and no apology for physical violence.

[DURHAM D]

14. If it was toxic masculinity, why did he slap him instead of punching him? nt

[live love laugh]

58. What's the difference? 😐

[sheshe2]

18. Chris, almost as funny...

Almost as funny as trump making fun of a reporter with arthrogryposis.

[NoRethugFriends]

25. Yeh, right. Definitely in the same category.

[sheshe2]

31. Excuse me?

Mocking disabled and mocking those with a disease that renders them bald is the same in my book.

Wait, next we talk about women cancer patients that are now bald.

[NoRethugFriends]

34. Your last sentence is a red herring

And a physical disability and baldness are not in the same category.

[sheshe2]

53. Yet can be ridiculed for both,

especially if you are a woman.

[sheshe2]

63. Fact.

My OP is about Jada. It is about WOMEN. Not about men.

[arthritisR_US]

86. Having been a cancer patient 4x's, l sure empathize

with Wills’ wife and his protection of her. My husband didn’t take ignorance or callousness against me ever!
Oh my god, I miss him…

[sheshe2]

89. You are one strong woman.

Your husband was a good man, so sorry for your loss.

[arthritisR_US]

95. Thank you luv.🥰 He sure liked what you had to

say because he constantly sent them to me and Stephanie. He wasn’t tech savyy(like me) but he got real excited with copy and send.

[sheshe2]

96. Seriously?

Love to you and Stephanie as well.

You stay strong girl.

[arthritisR_US]

101. I'm totally serious, in his last year he was limited

in what he could do, I introduced him to my IPAD and well, I no longer had one. He so respected you and Mineralman and so many others (that I’m too tired to remember) but you guys really kept him going and Stephanie and I were so very grateful 🥰

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

29. Had nothing to do with toxic male masculinity for Will Smith.

He knew how deeply this medical diagnosis has affected his wife and how she is struggling to come to grips with it.

His acceptance speech was ALL about movie, and nothing else.

[live love laugh]

61. His acceptance speech was overshadowed by his assault.

[NoRethugFriends]

72. Had everything to do about toxic masculinity

Violent behavior was toxic masculinity

[spooky3]

20. Some of the reactions to your post are stunning. Your

Post made good points very clearly.

Chris Rock’s “joke” was only a few steps away from TFG’s mocking a reporter with a disability. No one is defending physical violence; Smith was in the wrong to use it. But your post was about the likely effect on Jada Pickett Smith and other women. And obviously what you said needed to be pointed out for other people, too.

Men should object when women are insulted just as white people should object when racist things are said and done.

[sheshe2]

22. Hey, spooky.

But your post was about the likely effect on Jada Pickett Smith and other women. And obviously what you said needed to be pointed out for other people, too.

See, you got it. You understand what I said. Some here...woosh! right over their heads. Sometimes you want to just laugh or cry at the tone deafness.

[spooky3]

24. Gotta laugh--and keep posting!

[sheshe2]

33. Love ya, spooky.

[NoRethugFriends]

26. I understood what you said

Nothing went over my head.
I disagreed with you. I can understand what you say and still disagree.

[NoRethugFriends]

28. Geez. He didn't insult her

He made a joke about it. She had been open about it. Will Smith is an ass. And his god and peace crap without apologizing for the violence is total crap.

[spooky3]

32. It wasn't a style choice. It was a physical condition she can't control.

The “joke” was inappropriate.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

35. "He didn't insult her."

Maybe you should have actually looked at her face, Pal. She wasn't smiling.

[NoRethugFriends]

39. Hey, pal, that's life. She's living a public life.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

43. So, using your logic,

It was ok when trump openly mocked that disabled reporter by imitating him.

Alopecia is a medical condition. It has no cure and there is no treatment.

Don't think that constitutes a joke except in the minds of those who lack human empathy, but hey, you be you.

[NoRethugFriends]

48. And it is not life-threatening

Just a question for you Haggis.
Have you been escorting women at a Planned Parenthood clinic for thirty year?
Have you been kicked, punched, and knocked down by antis?
Have you been delivering meals to people with life-threatening illnesses?
Have you been taking kids from the city on hiking and camping trips?
Curious as to what you do to show your empathy other than posting here.

[sheshe2]

50. Hm

NoRethugFriends

39. Hey, pal, that's life. She's living a public life.

So. That means she is open to ridicule and can be mocked for a disease she never asked for?

I don't understand your post or your anger toward her. She has an illness that should not be mocked. She didn't sign up for this when she was born. She got it, she lives with it and should never be ridiculed for it.

[Deuxcents]

21. Aren't these jokes scripted n rehearsed?

I’m not an agent but just thought these were all part of the show. I only saw the twitter clip as I don’t watch the awards shows..any of them.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

37. Some of it is, but some comedians ad-lib trying to score extra cheap laughs.

[calimary]

30. When I saw Jada, the first thing I thought of was Queen Nefertiti.

You know that gorgeous statue - Nefertiti with the tall sleek headdress and long swan-like neck - usually pictured in profile. And she is not depicted with hair. Glorious Egyptian sculpture from antiquity.

That’s what came to mind when I saw Jada.

[sheshe2]

82. Ya know?

My whole OP was about Jada.

They made it about everything but her. *sigh*

I give up.

I give up.

I give up.

[old as dirt]

36. I find it interesting that Jada did not hop up on stage and punch anybody.

Is there a lesson here?

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

40. In case you didn't catch it,

Jada was crying. After they cut to commercial, Denzel went over to her, gave her a hug and sat with her til Will got back.

[old as dirt]

45. Good that somebody actually stepped up to the plate.

Denzel went over to her, gave her a hug and sat with her til Will got back.

Will was laughing.

Jada was crying.

Will was punching.

Denzel was hugging.

[NoRethugFriends]

52. She may have been unhaoppy because her husband acted like an idiot.

[NoRethugFriends]

42. Yep. Toxic masculinity

And thinking "I gotta protect my woman".
If the man had any wit, he could have gone up there and something right back to Chris Rock. But he has no wit.

[old as dirt]

57. Turned out his voice was actually quite loud.

And it would have been much more effective without the hand action.

In fact, effective use of his voice would have left his arms free to hug his wife.

[NoRethugFriends]

59. Yup

[ecstatic]

44. True, although Jada looks amazing bald

and/or with hair or whatever style she chooses to wear. I've been out the loop and I didn't know she has alopecia. Had I seen her somewhere with her head shaved, I would have assumed it was just another bold look that she was effortlessly pulling off.

[iemanja]

49. She does

She's an amazingly beautiful woman. She's rocked a very short haircut for many years. I myself didn't notice much of a difference and didn't know she had a disease.
She doesn't strike me as the sort of woman who needs or wants people's pity. I watch her on Red Table Talk, and she is strong and insightful--always.

[UTUSN]

47. Let's rewind: Chris was out of line, but so was Will.

[NoRethugFriends]

54. Will suffered violence growing up

And he just modeled violence for his children. That's how it gets passed on.

[UTUSN]

60. Well hey, so did we all

[NoRethugFriends]

62. No we didn't all

Curious, why do you assume we all suffered violence growing up?

[sheshe2]

67. Some of us may block it out.

Easier that way. Some people pretend.

I saw it.

[NoRethugFriends]

70. I truly don't understand what you are saying

I never had that growing up. Many of us never did.

[sheshe2]

73. I did.

My dad hit my mom.

[NoRethugFriends]

74. Not saying you didn't experience it

and sad that you did of course.
You implied we all did. I didn't.

[Hekate]

75. I agree with you, She

ETA: what an appalling thread

[sheshe2]

78. Ummm, yup.

[Kablooie]

79. You can see here that the joke hurt her.

Will must have noticed this immediately afterwards and realized the joke was at her expense, not his, and he lost it. Think how she must feel afterwards, having her husband shame himself on live TV for her. She would possibly feel responsible.

[old as dirt]

91. She has no reason to feel responsible in any way.

Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2022, 03:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Her husband's violence is all about him, not about her.

[tenderfoot]

84. He laughed at his joke... then felt the need to make the show about himself.

Are telling us that Jada can't hold her own?

Also, I didn't know she had a condition. I just thought she was an attractive woman that wanted to go clean shaven because it looks good on her.

Same with Ayanna Pressley.

They're both beautiful.

Quit defending Smith's narcissism.

[sheshe2]

87. Please re read the OP and then apologize to me.

MY OP WAS ABOUT JADA!

The OP was about the woman and not the man.

[tenderfoot]

88. It is about the men. The man that made the joke and the man that slapped him.

He made it about himself.

She cried - not because of the joke - but her husband's toxically masculine response.

[sheshe2]

90. The OP was about Jada and women.

Read it again.

[tenderfoot]

93. I did read it.

You're defending the patriarchy by insinuating that Pinkett-Smith is so fragile that she couldn't possibly have taken care of Rock herself.

[sheshe2]

98. Read it again.

This is wrong!
Sorry.

I have a different view than some here about Will, Jada and Chris. Chris was out of line, way out of line. Will did not handle it well. Shame on Chris for thinking this was funny.

However this is about a woman, Jada, that lost her hair due to alopecia as did Rep Ayanna Pressley. A woman's hair is important to them, they can't pull off baldness like a Yul Brenner can. It is a stigma and a source of ridicule for a woman. Women are mocked and ridiculed for their looks all the time, never mind being bald. Are we going to mock women cancer patients next? Under Chemo they lose their hair and may be dying. Shall we point at them and laugh.

My niece at 2 plus years had a bad fall and surgery and a scar. Her head was shaved. When my sister took her to the market people stared and kids pointed and laughed. She went home in tears. From that time on my sister put a hat on her so she was no longer laughed at and ridiculed.

This story is about Jada and women like her, the stigma that women go through everyday about their perceived looks by a society that decides what beauty and perfection is.

[tenderfoot]

99. "keep MY wife's name out of your effing mouth," not "keep HER name out of your effing mouth."

This was not about defending HER, it was about defending HIS possession.

[sheshe2]

103. Just STOP!

That was NOT WHAT MY OP WAS ABOUT. You want to start your own Op then go for it. None of what you are saying was what I posted. Why are you doing this?

This was about Jada. NOT WILL,CHRIS OR THEIR WORDS.

It was about a WOMAN. Her name is Jada.

[NoRethugFriends]

112. You don't get to make people stop

[krawhitham]

94. How is Chris Rock suppose to know Jada lost her hair due to alopecia? Did he even write the joke?

Do you think he follows the day to day goings on of the Smith family?


Did he even write the joke? The Oscars have a head writer in charge of the jokes

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2014/06/24/the-oscar-joke-steve-martin-refused-to-tell/77309888/

Bruce Vilanch has been the head writer for the Academy Awards show since 2000. That's a long time and a lot of jokes.

In a new book, Poking a Dead Frog, by Vanity Fair writer Mike Sacks, notable comedians talk about their craft. Along with Amy Poehler and Mel Brooks, Vilanch does a section dishing about the Oscars. Vulture has an excerpt.

And he talks about 2003 when Steve Martin was the host and one joke that we all never heard. Here it is:
"I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that my fly was open throughout the monologue. The good news is the camera puts on ten pounds."
But, Vilanch recounts that Martin "wouldn’t say the joke" because he thought it was about his private parts.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

97. And even if he DID know about it, there's...

... several online articles about Jada supposedly "embracing" her hair loss, and how she wasn't going to let it define her life.

Chris Rock might've read those same articles and assumed that she'd laugh it off! I'm sure he's not a mind-reader!

He clearly couldn't read the mind of the approaching Will Smith either, standing there with his hands behind his back until getting slapped across his face.

[LuckyCharms]

102. sheshe2, I just read this post

after I had posted a similar OP.

You and I are of like minds on this issue.

I agree with the points you have made, and I also think that what happened tonight is indicative of a very deep and dark problem that the entire world seems to have right now.

[sheshe2]

105. Please link your thread.

It is late and I need to sleep.

Thank you for your kind words.

[LuckyCharms]

106. .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216534078

[sheshe2]

107. Found it.

TY, LuckyCharms

[LuckyCharms]

108. And thank you as well...

[sheshe2]

109. I posted.

This has me upset.

Gonna sleep.

[LuckyCharms]

110. I'm sorry you are upset...

I am upset as well...over many things, including this.

I tend to look at isolated incidents cumulatively, and I have a few illnesses that have in a way made me much stronger than I ever was, but at the same time have made me dislike my daily way of being.

I am of the mind that ANY type of disease is deserving of kindness and respect from other people...ALWAYS. I find it very disheartening that people who are your friends, people that you may even love, cannot step into your shoes for a moment and try to understand what your life is like when you are ill or otherwise compromised in some way. Each and every person who struggles with any type of illness or disorder goes through this, and these feelings need to be recognized and respected.

So tonight's event with the Smith's and Chris Rock just adds one more example for me of how insensitive humans can be to each other.

When I mentioned above that I view incidents like this cumulatively, I mean that I just toss tonight's incident onto the pile in my mind that contains every shitty thing in the world that is currently happening, and that I pray for strength and peace for every single soul who has been wronged via insensitivity, meanness and cruelness for any reason.

Sorry for getting on a soapbox...but things like this trigger my "hottest" hot button.

I hope you are sleeping now, and I hope that you have a nice rest!