Haven't the billionaires suffered enough?

[634-5789]

[Sherman A1]

1. Well,

No……..

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Truth is, I'm not seeing that much of a difference between our...

billionaires and their oligarchs.

[rpannier]

6. That's because you're not seeing the...uhhhhhh. the difer... it's...

Give me time and I'll find them for you... maybe

[Strelnikov_]

26. Only difference is that we have a few dented guardrails left . . .

to prevent them from going full oligarch.

Give the GOP time though, and especially Mr. Drain The Swamp, and we'll be there.

If the Democrats want an issue to run on in '22, there it is.

[Backseat Driver]

33. So that's where I went wrong!

(Even I, the Backseat Driver have a license and the insurance if I would so much as dent a guardrail with the vehicle). It's the law!

[BlueJac]

3. Reagan helped create our billionaires with his trickle down nonsense...

And lowering their tax rate, kicking off their wealth growth that has become a disaster to almost all Americans.

[jimfields33]

4. With the congress' help

And sadly not a change in 40 years.

[multigraincracker]

5. I like that it is based on worth and not income.That is

Progressive.
We could lower taxes and balance the budget with a 10% tax on wealth over 10 million once every 10 years.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

11. Minimum income tax is widely used around the world so tax lawyers can't find loopholes.

Tax lawyers always find loopholes, but minimum tax stops them cold.

[Vinca]

7. Considering our rate this year was a little more than that, Biden could go higher.

(We're 2 self-employed geezers on Social Security trying to fatten the pot by continuing to work.)

[KPN]

8. Hopefully, "give it time" will apply effectively.

I’m just glad we have a President who actually talks about our gross economic inequity and is trying to do something, anything, somewhat meaningful to most Americans and the playing field about it.

[dumbcat]

24. Marginal rate or effective rate?

Little details like that bug the accountant in me. Many middle income people (like me) pay 22% marginal rate, but an effective rate of 10-11%. Each gives a different impression.

[Farmer-Rick]

31. I know, I was thinking the same thing

Are they going to include Social Security and Medicare taxes as part of that 20%? My effective rate last year was 13% but that did not include Social Security and Medicare taxes I paid. I am definitely not rich. I hope this isn't another stealth tax on the middle class.

That flat rate 20% sounds like It's an increase to me.

[dumbcat]

32. Good point about the Soc Sec and Medicare taxes

I was addressing only the US Federal Income Tax as that is what the legislation is affecting. I didn't think about SS and Medicare taxes being deducted from paychecks as I am retired and only see a small amount of Medicare taken out of my Soc Sec checks. (Though I have to pay fed income tax on 85% of my soc sec.)

When I think of Federal Income Tax "tax rate" I am thinking Form 1040 Line 24 Total Tax divided by Adjusted Gross Income. I know other people think of it differently.

[Vinca]

36. I've been reminded of how I made a mistake in quoting the number. I'll have to dig out

the forms the accountant filled out and recheck. In my head I think 21% because that's the amount of gross, non-SS income it shakes out to being. I only check that because the extra income is not a fixed amount and the quarterly payments often need to be adjusted. Last year, for example, was a better-than-average year so I upped the quarterly payments and came within spitting distance of the amount we eventually owed. If I hadn't, it would have really hurt the pocketbook. This year, the income is down a little because we dropped a couple of clients, so I'll probably reduce the quarterly payment. In the end, I pretty much figure we always pay more than Bezos. LOL.

[dumbcat]

37. It can get pretty messy

When people think of "tax" and "tax rate" many things can come to mind. That's why I kinda always try to standardize definitions in a discussion (my wife calls it The Curse of the Engineer). Some folks like to include or exclude certain things, depending on their idea of "fairness" of the item.

When I think of Federal Income Tax "tax rate" I am thinking Form 1040 Line 24: Total Tax, divided by Line 11: Adjusted Gross Income. That to me is the most basic definition of "effective tax rate" for Fed Income Tax. Sometimes people like to divide by Line 15: Taxable Income, which makes the rate seem higher. Depends on what point is being made.

I don't mean to denigrate anyone for how they think about tax rates, but the techno-geek in me (and with an MBA in Finance on top of that!) gets jittery when I don't know what definitions are being used. Yeah, I'm weird!

[Buns_of_Fire]

9. Absolutely. Put them out of their misery.

With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[gab13by13]

10. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren

have been pushing for this for years. Do it.

Thom Hartmann says the way to save our democracy was to tax the rich. When Reagan was president we had 1 billionaire, now we have 400 who own the politicians, own the MSM, own the courts, including the Supreme Court. Then Citizens United allowed the American oligarchs to destroy our democracy secretly, with no accountability.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

12. The msm is owned by the rich, ofc the mass media will have a cow. Screw them.

[Roy Rolling]

17. "MSM" ?

I understand what you mean, but MSM is a totally-created term by right-wing propagandists to slap a label on liberal/open/free media in the United States.

By bashing the “MSM” it bashes millions of union employees and others in more legitimate commercial networks.

Corporate and individual sponsors of entertainment shows masquerading as news are the true “enemy”. They pay for commercials within propaganda shows that tear down the entire commercial/free networks they buy commercials on.

Fvuck them, not the “MSM”. 🤓

[Alexander Of Assyria]

19. Dont think anyone can control a term, but I know what you mean and I stand by the term.

M$M is ok to label the corporate owned by the rich major media…NBCCBSABC.

Thé alphabet networks are essential propaganda for and made by the fabulously rich gilded age proponents.

[gab13by13]

23. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, all push right wing propaganda,

Every one of those networks is making a big deal out of Biden's remarks on Putin.

There is no such thing as a liberal MSM on television. There are a few "media" outlets in print, on the internet, and talk radio, but the majority of Americans don't get their news from a liberal/open/free media.

I bash the MSM, I don't bash the media. The word media is what you are talking about, it is more inclusive.

[Lonestarblue]

13. Another change I would like to see is in how federal dollars are apportioned to the states.

Red states deliberately keep their taxes low because that gets them more federal dollars. Mississippi just cut its income tax rates and now will get even more money from taxpayers in other states. No state should get more money than paid in by its citizens unless there is a federal infrastructure project that is funded across several states. It’s time for the taker states to stop sponging off the responsible states.

[gab13by13]

14. Fantastic idea,

and it would be hard for red state politicians to argue against it.

[Pepsidog]

16. While Trump limited state and local taxes to $10,000 hurting most blue states.

I pay $18,000 in property taxes in NJ.

[Duppers]

18. Indeed. nt

[Pepsidog]

15. Twenty percent seems low to me.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

20. It's fair. You can tell by the great uproar in all the corporate owned and business media.

[IronLionZion]

21. Can we normalize calling them Oligarchs even if they're American

or this the same deal where white immigrants are called expats and white terrorists are called mentally disturbed.

[gab13by13]

25. I absolutely call them American oligarchs.

The Big Pharma oligarchs who made their fortunes by making drugs overseas, shipping them here and charging 10 times the price they charge in other countries. To me that is highway robbery. Then they buy politicians who tell their constituents we have to pay more for drugs because they are safe because they are made in America when in fact they are made in India and China.

[IronLionZion]

28. And the ones who simply buy the patent to become the monopoly supplier

and then jack up the price for no other reason than greed.

[Strelnikov_]

27. Thats what I call em, be doing it for tears . . .

[FreepFryer]

22. Seems low. Bump that shit up cause I want my Jetsons commute too (Nt)

[NoMoreRepugs]

29. I continue to hold out hope that one day the DU community

and Democrats as a group begin to think strategically and play the long game vs debate every proposal/statement/whatever for its impact/meaning/social relevance/etc in the next 48 hours. Our penchant to drill down into the minutiae of everything rather than getting behind something/everything and slugging it up the hill is maddening to this old fart.

Apologies for a rambling breakfast rant.

[gab13by13]

30. I believe that Democrats do that because

the MSM forces them. The MSM is right wing and if it were fair and balanced it would get behind good proposals that Democrats have. Do you think the MSM is going to get behind president Biden's proposal to tax the super rich? Democrats are going to have to go through the minutia of explaining why because the right wing MSM forces them to make their case.

Having the super wealthy pay their fair share should be a no brainer and the MSM should be helping carry that water, but it won't.

[NoMoreRepugs]

35. I would only hope media gets behind the tax proposal - not betting on it.

[Midnight Writer]

34. I think we all need to take a step back and reflect on how we would fare without billionaires.

People make more money than others because they are worth more than others.

That's why moneychangers make more than doctors, nurses, teachers, cops, firemen, plumbers, farmers, waitresses and garbagemen. You know, those people who serve us every day.