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geardaddy

(24,926 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:13 AM Mar 2022

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Will Smith Did a Bad, Bad Thing

https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r&fbclid=IwAR3agXcngT9VPSmzdO-wGQCcje67ZjGfpdWa_tKM9-sdUtRh-OGMEgqDplo

An interesting take from Kareem
When Will Smith stormed onto the Oscar stage to strike Chris Rock for making a joke about his wife’s short hair, he did a lot more damage than just to Rock’s face. With a single petulant blow, he advocated violence, diminished women, insulted the entertainment industry, and perpetuated stereotypes about the Black community.

That’s a lot to unpack. Let’s start with the facts: Rock made a reference to Smith’s wife, Jada Pinkett Smith, as looking like Demi Moore in GI Jane, in which Moore had shaved her head. Jada Pinkett Smith suffers from alopecia, which causes hair loss. Ok, I can see where the Smiths might not have found that joke funny. But Hollywood awards shows are traditionally a venue where much worse things have been said about celebrities as a means of downplaying the fact that it’s basically a gathering of multimillionaires giving each other awards to boost business so they can make even more money.

The Smiths could have reacted by politely laughing along with the joke or by glowering angrily at Rock. Instead, Smith felt the need to get up in front of his industry peers and millions of people around the world, hit another man, then return to his seat to bellow: “Keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth.” Twice.

Some have romanticized Smith’s actions as that of a loving husband defending his wife. Comedian Tiffany Haddish, who starred in the movie Girls Trip with Pinkett Smith, praised Smith’s actions: “[F]or me, it was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen because it made me believe that there are still men out there that love and care about their women, their wives.”


I will add, I think Chris Rock crossed the line, as well.

Much more at link
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Will Smith Did a Bad, Bad Thing (Original Post) geardaddy Mar 2022 OP
Excellent read. As a woman, I particularly appreciate these paragraphs: demmiblue Mar 2022 #1
That struck me, too. geardaddy Mar 2022 #2
This x 1000. Treefrog Mar 2022 #17
+1, uponit7771 Mar 2022 #25
It really struck a chord for me as well eissa Mar 2022 #37
That's well said. Good for Kareem. yardwork Apr 2022 #52
I have avoided weighing in on this topic. Cracklin Charlie Mar 2022 #3
Kareem explains in the article how an instant like this robbob Apr 2022 #54
Agree. Cracklin Charlie Apr 2022 #56
Some I agree with, a lot I think is virtue-signaling, hand-wringing drivel Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2022 #4
That was my first thought when it happened, but Rock's face was evidence enough for me. BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #22
I have been waiting to hear from Kareem on this Johnny2X2X Mar 2022 #5
His Delphinus Apr 2022 #55
Amazing to me.... Jm7603 Mar 2022 #6
The "defending his wife" excuse is such bullshit. pamela Mar 2022 #7
Yes, revenge is a good word for that action geardaddy Mar 2022 #8
Agree Johnny2X2X Mar 2022 #10
It's none of our business except this silly couple seems to have no concept of privacy. BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #21
+1, Stern said something similar saying that's how Trump gets away with shit the amount of people uponit7771 Mar 2022 #28
I agree with Kareen 100%. fightforfreedom Mar 2022 #9
When he slapped him he immediately became a bad role model kimbutgar Mar 2022 #11
I can't believe that there are still people defending Smith! It's so foul. As a strong black woman MenloParque Mar 2022 #12
This. BlackSkimmer Apr 2022 #53
violence is never the answer jcgoldie Mar 2022 #13
Kareem is such a thoughtful writer eissa Mar 2022 #14
It's Kareem. roamer65 Mar 2022 #15
Yes! Oops geardaddy Mar 2022 #18
I love Cap but... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2022 #16
True but few if any enabled Kareem's actions as Smith has been. Read comments of a teacher uponit7771 Mar 2022 #26
I agree 100% . That's why I oppose spanking. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2022 #34
Yep, something I had to relearn as a black father talking and thinking were way more effective. uponit7771 Mar 2022 #35
I've loved Kareem ever since he was Lew Alcindor Goodheart Mar 2022 #19
K and r. nt BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #20
K&R, *FACT*: Will Smith laughed at the GI Jane joke Rock told uponit7771 Mar 2022 #23
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is such a wise and intelligent man. kr PufPuf23 Mar 2022 #24
"Some have romanticized Smith's actions"... Snackshack Mar 2022 #27
+1, ... and even if he did know I don't see how being compared to a badass shero of the 90s is so uponit7771 Mar 2022 #32
The only thing that I will say about this is..... Dan Mar 2022 #29
Even after WS laughed at Rocks GI Jane joke? uponit7771 Mar 2022 #36
Kareem is a national treasure! Nicely done sir. I miss #33. Evolve Dammit Mar 2022 #30
Smith did NOT lose control... he KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING. Raster Mar 2022 #31
+1, and WS laughed at the GI Jane joke is a fact no matter how many people try to gas light ... uponit7771 Mar 2022 #33
That was an excellent read. Snackshack Mar 2022 #38
the truth llashram Mar 2022 #39
Has Jada issued any statement? ChazII Mar 2022 #40
Probably told Will he didn't do enough; Tupac would've done more. nt LexVegas Mar 2022 #41
today i learned catsudon Mar 2022 #45
Tuesday on Instagram..."This is a season for healing, and I'm here for it." progressoid Mar 2022 #44
Thank you. n/t ChazII Mar 2022 #48
He's right about all of those things. gldstwmn Mar 2022 #42
K and R Quixote1818 Mar 2022 #43
Kick. nt BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #46
This point is right on The Revolution Mar 2022 #47
The Academy Awards show was a workplace and Will Smith smacked a worker. tirebiter Mar 2022 #49
That's an excellent take. geardaddy Apr 2022 #50
His take tracks fairly well with mine. yardwork Apr 2022 #51

demmiblue

(36,841 posts)
1. Excellent read. As a woman, I particularly appreciate these paragraphs:
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:31 AM
Mar 2022
Some have romanticized Smith’s actions as that of a loving husband defending his wife. Comedian Tiffany Haddish, who starred in the movie Girls Trip with Pinkett Smith, praised Smith’s actions: “[F]or me, it was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen because it made me believe that there are still men out there that love and care about their women, their wives.”

Actually, it was the opposite. Smith’s slap was also a slap to women. If Rock had physically attacked Pinkett Smith, Smith’s intervention would have been welcome. Or if he’d remained in his seat and yelled his post-slap threat, that would have been unnecessary, but understandable. But by hitting Rock, he announced that his wife was incapable of defending herself—against words. From everything I’d seen of Pinkett Smith over the years, she’s a very capable, tough, smart woman who can single-handedly take on a lame joke at the Academy Awards show.

This patronizing, paternal attitude infantilizes women and reduces them to helpless damsels needing a Big Strong Man to defend their honor least they swoon from the vapors. If he was really doing it for his wife, and not his own need to prove himself, he might have thought about the negative attention this brought on them, much harsher than the benign joke. That would have been truly defending and respecting her. This “women need men to defend them” is the same justification currently being proclaimed by conservatives passing laws to restrict abortion and the LGBTQ+ community.

Worse than the slap was Smith’s tearful, self-serving acceptance speech in which he rambled on about all the women in the movie King Richard that he’s protected. Those who protect don’t brag about it in front of 15 million people. They just do it and shut up. You don’t do it as a movie promotion claiming how you’re like the character you just won an award portraying. But, of course, the speech was about justifying his violence. Apparently, so many people need Smith’s protection that occasionally it gets too much and someone needs to be smacked.


Well stated!

geardaddy

(24,926 posts)
2. That struck me, too.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:41 AM
Mar 2022

As a man, I can understand Smith's anger at Rock making fun of Jada's condition, and I can even imagine feeling angry enough to slap him, but that would make it about me.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
37. It really struck a chord for me as well
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:51 PM
Mar 2022

I tried articulating the same thing when debating those who defended Smith's violence, but Kareem said it far better than I could.

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
3. I have avoided weighing in on this topic.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:45 AM
Mar 2022

But, Kareem is right. I won’t weigh in on the whole issue about stereotyping the black community, because I think race, in this instance, is unimportant. My feeling would have been the same had both men been white, or Asian, or if they were of different races.

While Mr. Rock shouldn’t have said what he did, Mr. Smith should have discussed this with Mr. Rock at an appropriate time and place. Mr. Rock could have apologized to Ms. Pickett-Smith properly, and those involved could achieve some sort of closure. The whole incident should leave both men embarrassed by their actions.

robbob

(3,527 posts)
54. Kareem explains in the article how an instant like this
Fri Apr 1, 2022, 01:41 PM
Apr 2022

is used by racist right wingers to reinforce negative stereotypes. I think he mentions Fox’s Pirro (sp?) saying “this is the Oscar’s, not the ‘hood” in her commentary.

You and I don’t see it as a racial thing, because we’re not racists. But, to Kareem’s point, a lot of middle America might see it that way.

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
56. Agree.
Fri Apr 1, 2022, 08:07 PM
Apr 2022

But then, Kareem is always right.

I really hope those involved are able to work their way through this. They seem to have handled it pretty well, so far.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
4. Some I agree with, a lot I think is virtue-signaling, hand-wringing drivel
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:46 AM
Mar 2022

And I'm not sure I believe it wasn't all staged quite frankly.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
22. That was my first thought when it happened, but Rock's face was evidence enough for me.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 01:57 PM
Mar 2022

He truly looked stunned, even hurt.

I admire him for how he continued on.

He’s got material for years now at any rate.

Johnny2X2X

(19,043 posts)
5. I have been waiting to hear from Kareem on this
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:51 AM
Mar 2022

As soon as this happened, I thought of Kareem because I know he'd have a thoughtful take on it that considered every aspect.

Kareem is a must read, he hits the mark nearly every time.

Jm7603

(165 posts)
6. Amazing to me....
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:55 AM
Mar 2022

A significant portion of this country, including some people I have agreed with on other issues in the past, are apparently good with violence in response to a joke. Possibly a bad and insensitive joke, but a joke. I've seen several posts giving the impression or directly stating "I would have done the same thing"! If feeling disrespected or getting a "sad" from a joke is thought to be sufficient to provoke a violent attack how can we ever condemn Nazis in Charlottesville or J6 insurrectionists for violence when they (wrongly) thought their country was being stolen from them? If a feeling of disrespect or a sad are the criteria to approve of violence we are in real trouble. I understand the levels of violence are different, but the violence was just as wrong here. Will Smith was wrong. We can't split hairs and say it was just a slap or just a punch. There was no excuse for this reaction to a joke.

pamela

(3,469 posts)
7. The "defending his wife" excuse is such bullshit.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 11:59 AM
Mar 2022

That’s what right-wingers do all the time, try to excuse abhorrent behavior by claiming the moral high ground.

Will didn’t defend Jada. He didn’t prevent Chris from telling the joke. The slap didn’t reverse time so that no one heard the joke. In fact, his actions assured that the joke would we be heard by millions of people who would otherwise not have heard it. He also didn’t prevent others from making jokes about Jada and, instead, pretty much assured that she will be the butt of more jokes.

The slap was revenge, not defense. I would respect him more if he just admitted that he was pissed and wanted vengeance rather than trying to turn it into some almighty protector of women bullshit.

Johnny2X2X

(19,043 posts)
10. Agree
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:11 PM
Mar 2022

And it was revenge for more than just the Rock joke, it was also revenge for the earlier joke by the female comedian that made light of the Smith's open marriage. Will has been the butt of stupid jokes since it became known his wife had a boyfriend. Their unconventional marriage is none of our business, but it's made Will a target which I am sure gave him a complex about this all. If he had just slapped Rock and then didn't win an Oscar it wouldn't be as clear, but his speech there was of a man who'd been beaten down by extended ridicule. I thought his acceptance speech was self serving and pathetic, but it also showed how hurt he's been by the constant jokes about his manhood. He wasn't protecting anyone but himself and his ego.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
21. It's none of our business except this silly couple seems to have no concept of privacy.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 01:54 PM
Mar 2022

They’ve put it all out there for everyone to see.

Just bizarre.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
28. +1, Stern said something similar saying that's how Trump gets away with shit the amount of people
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:09 PM
Mar 2022

... enabling him with bullshit excuses

kimbutgar

(21,130 posts)
11. When he slapped him he immediately became a bad role model
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:19 PM
Mar 2022

As a teacher I always advocate for kids to talk it out instead of physically hurting someone.

I lost any respect I had for Will Smith.

MenloParque

(512 posts)
12. I can't believe that there are still people defending Smith! It's so foul. As a strong black woman
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:29 PM
Mar 2022

I don’t need any man defending me over stupid words. The moment Will Smith lost control and engaged in toxic masculine bullshit, I lost all respect for Will Smith.

jcgoldie

(11,631 posts)
13. violence is never the answer
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:31 PM
Mar 2022

This reminds me of an incident a month or so ago that received quite a bit less attention when Jawon Howard, Michigan basketball head coach, similarly lost his temper and slapped a Wisconsin coach in the postgame handshake line. The debate about who was right or wrong or whether the actions of either party were appropriate is over as soon as you decide to take a swing and escalate a verbal argument into a physical confrontation. If Will Smith felt so emotionally overwhelmed that he had to leave his seat and respond immediately to Rock's joke and say his piece that would be one thing and still debatable. But the reaction with violence was just completely uncalled for and there is no place for it at the Oscars or anywhere else.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
14. Kareem is such a thoughtful writer
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:33 PM
Mar 2022

Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2022, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)

His insights and analysis of this mess are so spot-on. He's such a national treasure.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
15. It's Kareem.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:49 PM
Mar 2022

I respect Kareem a LOT. He’s a legend.

Good man with a good heart.

…and he was great in the movie Airplane!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
16. I love Cap but...
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 12:53 PM
Mar 2022

As a sports aficionado I love Cap but he hit a fellow basketball player in the jaw, broke his own hand in the process, and got a fined for what at the time was a record sum. Almost anybody will snap given the right stimuli. Doesn't make it right. I like the way he ended his essay:Smith has been punished enough and it's time to move on.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
26. True but few if any enabled Kareem's actions as Smith has been. Read comments of a teacher
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:08 PM
Mar 2022

... and all the kids at a mostly black school are idolizing Smith while some teachers have to RETEACH that battery will get them shot in certain neighborhoods were guns are prolific

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
34. I agree 100% . That's why I oppose spanking.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:33 PM
Mar 2022

I know it's a culturally sensitive issue but violence should only be used as the very, very... last resort. I said to my friend spanking a child for something he did wrong is akin to me hitting another adult for something he did wrong. Smith acted in the heat of passion, thank God it wasn't worse. He shouldn't be idolized for what he did. He regrets it. I just think we should move on.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
27. "Some have romanticized Smith's actions"...
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:08 PM
Mar 2022

That’s a bad take on what happened. I don’t know if Rock knew about Mrs. Smiths condition…hard to think he didn’t know but if he did or did not that really does not matter.

The hosts of these shows routinely say very edgy sometimes hurtful things. Ricky Gervais said stuff that got him not invited back if memory serves me right.

Smith and his wife should have got up and left or as the article mentions sat there and glared at Rock disapprovingly. Smith should not have got up went on stage and slapped Rock in front of the entire world. The article spells out the numerous reasons as to why Smith was out of line and he should be held accountable.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
32. +1, ... and even if he did know I don't see how being compared to a badass shero of the 90s is so
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:15 PM
Mar 2022

... much of an insult.

I have aphasia from an accident but if someone told me after my voice change I sounded like Morgan Freeman I wouldn't slap the shit out of them.

Also there are too many people who want to gas light and ignore the fact Smith laughed at the GI Jane Joke

Raster

(20,998 posts)
31. Smith did NOT lose control... he KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:12 PM
Mar 2022

During the 17 seconds it took for him to get up, walk on stage and than slap Rock*, Smith*, who is definitely a PLAYER in the Hollywood game, was appraising how much mileage he might get out of the slap and also appraising how best to deal with the blowback: just protecting my wife, blah, blah, blah.

And isn't Smith* supposedly a 10th level Jedi in Scientology? They supposedly have much better control over their emotions.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
33. +1, and WS laughed at the GI Jane joke is a fact no matter how many people try to gas light ...
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 02:21 PM
Mar 2022

... in various matters.

BTW .. WS isn't a scientologist and CR didn't apologize either ... those things are going around FB

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
38. That was an excellent read.
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 03:17 PM
Mar 2022

The article by Kareem linked in the OP’s post is by far the best most thoughtful piece I have read yet on this incident. He captured the true wide ranging impact this will have.

I wonder as Kathy Griffin Tweeted how long will it be before we see another comedian assaulted in a copy cat act by some audience member at a show.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
39. the truth
Tue Mar 29, 2022, 03:31 PM
Mar 2022

of the matter is he has presented an unacceptable stereotype of African-Americans. Especially those who hate and fear African-Americans already. As violent self-hating, American racism 1619-present did a job there, individuals. No excuse.

The Revolution

(766 posts)
47. This point is right on
Wed Mar 30, 2022, 03:29 PM
Mar 2022
But Hollywood awards shows are traditionally a venue where much worse things have been said about celebrities as a means of downplaying the fact that it’s basically a gathering of multimillionaires giving each other awards to boost business so they can make even more money.


I don't really understand why people want to hold up the Oscars or any similar awards show as some really prestigious thing. But in any case, Smith's actions completely overshadowed his award win, and his own career will likely suffer as a result.

tirebiter

(2,536 posts)
49. The Academy Awards show was a workplace and Will Smith smacked a worker.
Thu Mar 31, 2022, 11:15 PM
Mar 2022

That’s how this is being treated. Too establishment? It’s something I have worked 30 years to accomplish. Thems union rules.

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